Sins a Christian cannot commit...

[Outsider]

Tim,
In fairness to Charles, we should understand something.
There are people who are not born again but in the church. They commit adultry and other sins like that. Everything is fine until they get caught.
Then they repent openly and become a model church member.

Now, we don't know their heart. But to repent over a sin and repentance because you got caught are two different things.

I do agree that if He has saved you, you are saved for ever.
But there are people who are deceived and they repent because they got caught, not because they sinned.

We don't know who is saved and who is not. We only know if they love their brother. I think what Charles is saying, if you truley love your wife, would you ever step out on her?
It is a valid question. Honestly, I am not convinced one way or the other yet.
My struggle is what really is a sin unto death?
I have always believed it is unbelief. If there is more, I would like to know. Not to make sure I avoid them (LOL), but because it is preached heavily in some churches.

 

[Joe]

My main concern is for people who are using hallucinogen (mind altering) drugs. LSD, POT etc..to the point of being so blinded by the scriptures they sees marijuana as something Jesus cultivated. Something of spiritual significance.

They may say it helps with spirituality and creativity.

The times when I got high, it certainly took my mind in many different directions. Time slowed down, my skin became very sensitive, colors became brighter, just alot of weird stuff.

Wondering if it's possible to even worship our Lord in that state of mind...

 

[tinytim]

Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Look at my above posts..

I guess you drink no caffeine, eat no preservatives, never eat out, never eat greasy food.. Never eat more calories than you are going to burn...

No smoking, no alcohol, no nicotene... no drugs you don't need...

No tattoos, no extra pounds,

I hope you don't eat anything that will clog your arteries, no sausage, bacon..

No chocolate, it contains caffeine...

IF YOu do any of the above, you are defiling your temple...
And if you die after consuming any of the above without asking forgiveness for them.. .according to your logic.. you go to Hell...

Or does Jesus keep you and your church from making coffee and serving that drug laced drink?

Next time you pick up a coffee, be warned.. you are defiling your temple.
And according to your post I quoted, you believe that if you defile your temple you cannot be saved...

BTW, when was the last time you drank a coffee... was you saved before you did?

I know I am being ridiculous, but just as ridiculous as you, when you say you are not capable of sinning sins....


OF course we all see you pick and choose the sins you can't commit.

 

[tinytim]

Tim,
In fairness to Charles, we should understand something.
There are people who are not born again but in the church. They commit adultry and other sins like that. Everything is fine until they get caught.
Then they repent openly and become a model church member.

Now, we don't know their heart. But to repent over a sin and repentance because you got caught are two different things.

I do agree that if He has saved you, you are saved for ever.
But there are people who are deceived and they repent because they got caught, not because they sinned.

We don't know who is saved and who is not. We only know if they love their brother. I think what Charles is saying, if you truley love your wife, would you ever step out on her?
It is a valid question. Honestly, I am not convinced one way or the other yet.
My struggle is what really is a sin unto death?
I have always believed it is unbelief. If there is more, I would like to know. Not to make sure I avoid them (LOL), but because it is preached heavily in some churches.

Jesus equated lust with adultery.
I would like to think I could never commit adultery... I love my wife, but I also know that this is one area that Satan attacks preachers.. I have seen so many fall.. and if I were to believe that it would be impossible for me to commit this sin, Satan would blindside me.. .so I am staying vigilant.

And lust is not as advanced as what Charles is proposing.. he said we have to undress the lady in our mind....
Lust is not that advanced, If I look twice at another lady, it is lust... I don't have to undress her in my mind... simply enjoying the view is lust.

And Jesus said that lust equals adultery.

 

[tinytim]

My main concern is for people who are using hallucinogen (mind altering) drugs. LSD, POT etc..to the point of being so blinded by the scriptures they sees marijuana as something Jesus cultivated. Something of spiritual significance.

They may say it helps with spirituality and creativity.

The times when I got high, it certainly took my mind in many different directions. Time slowed down, my skin became very sensitive, colors became brighter, just alot of weird stuff.

Wondering if it's possible to even worship our Lord in that state of mind...

Nope... but Christians can be deceived to think so.

 

[Outsider]

Correct.

But there is something to be said for actually commiting the act.
After all, on the flip side, we see that faith without works is dead.

I an understand what brother Charles is saying. Mainly because I have heard it preached my whole life as I am sure he has (Maybe, maybe not).

I will say that we are not to judge their soul. We do not have the authority to make a righteous jusdgement. We are to judge their works.

So, if we are to judge their works, how does your church handle this situation?
If a member got caught in adultry, would they be excluded from membership or would nothing happen to them?

 

[HankD]

So, you believe Christians are adulterers, liars, pedophilers, rapist, murders, Idol worshippers, Devil worshippers,
What can I say?

Charles, I was half-way to believing you until you made this unfair statement above. The person to whom you directed this said "I think that--barring blasphemy of the Holy Spirit--a Christian can fall into any sin a non-Christian can. But here's the difference: Should a Christian fall into a sinful lifestyle..."

He did not say of what you accused him. He did not say "Christians are liars, etc..." but indicated that a Christian could fall into these kinds of sins and then the chastising hand of our Heavenly Father.

Although I admit that I have done this very thing as well and I am ashamed at my callousness and lack of consideration for my brother.

I am also thankful to God that He has promised that when I do my part of acknowledging my sin, He keeps His promise to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. When I look back on my life I am not the same person.

It has not been an overnight cleansing/transformation but an overlife cleansing/transforming and I thank Him for it.

How much more satisfaction and peace of mind and heart with the fruit of the Spirit in my life that those works of the flesh I pusued as a carnal babe in Christ (I have been to the woodshed often).

Remember poor Peter and how he lied about knowing Christ and later wept bitterly?

We hate our sin and have godly sorrow for it and acknowledge our sin to our Father.

That is the one of the differences between the believer and the religious person, the wheat and the tare.

While the continual sinner (religious) may go through the mechanics of confession to God, he loves his/her sin.

The servant of the Lord also has many to lead them astray.

To the Church at Thyatira were written these words:

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.​

Paul to the Corinthians who were carnal yet he called them saints: (I agree that the child of God cannot gievously sin without a deadly consequence).

1 Corinthians 11

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.​

If you have been led of the Lord for many years and He has mightily cleansed your walk, here is some advice FWIW - be careful and mindful of your bothers and sisters, babes in Christ who may yet be carnal.

Do not deny them the advocacy of Christ by boasting of your position in Christ which looks impossible to them.

"for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter"​

Rather be like Paul and John and lead them to the Advocate of the little children...

John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:​

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.​

HankD​

 

[Outsider]

Originally Posted by Joe
My main concern is for people who are using hallucinogen (mind altering) drugs. LSD, POT etc..to the point of being so blinded by the scriptures they sees marijuana as something Jesus cultivated. Something of spiritual significance.

They may say it helps with spirituality and creativity.

The times when I got high, it certainly took my mind in many different directions. Time slowed down, my skin became very sensitive, colors became brighter, just alot of weird stuff.

Wondering if it's possible to even worship our Lord in that state of mind...


Nope... but Christians can be deceived to think so.

I am not sure what you are really saying here, but I would have to say:
No. But people can be deceived to think they are Christians.
A Christian knows the only way to serve God is in Spirit and in Truth.

 

[Joe]

Correct.

But there is something to be said for actually commiting the act.
After all, on the flip side, we see that faith without works is dead.

I an understand what brother Charles is saying. Mainly because I have heard it preached my whole life as I am sure he has (Maybe, maybe not).

I will say that we are not to judge their soul. We do not have the authority to make a righteous jusdgement. We are to judge their works.

So, if we are to judge their works, how does your church handle this situation?
If a member got caught in adultry, would they be excluded from membership or would nothing happen to them?

According to your earlier post, they aren't Christians if they commit adultery. From what I understand, church discipline is for the lost.

 

[Joe]

I am not sure what you are really saying here, but I would have to say:
No. But people can be deceived to think they are Christians.
A Christian knows the only way to serve God is in Spirit and in Truth.

Whether drunk or high, imo, Christians know they are sinning when they attempt to worship the Lord in that state of mind. Unless they are a fairly new Christian, or mentally slow, maybe they wouldn't realize this.
I'm glad it's not my decision

 

[rbell]

Ok what would you say if I told you God made me perfect.

I wouldn't say anything. Scripture, however, says:

1 John 1:8--

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

 

[Allan]

Christians do not commit certain sins that send them to hell, God will not allow it.

There is not any specific sins that send a person to hell and others that do not.

All sin is worthy of damnation!

 

[tinytim]

Correct.

But there is something to be said for actually commiting the act.
After all, on the flip side, we see that faith without works is dead.

I an understand what brother Charles is saying. Mainly because I have heard it preached my whole life as I am sure he has (Maybe, maybe not).

I will say that we are not to judge their soul. We do not have the authority to make a righteous jusdgement. We are to judge their works.

So, if we are to judge their works, how does your church handle this situation?
If a member got caught in adultry, would they be excluded from membership or would nothing happen to them?

Matthew 18...
They are confronted.... and if they repent.. good.
If not, me and a deacon confront them... if they repent ... good
If not, they will be brought before the whole church ... to give them the chance to repent... if they repent.. good...


If at any point they repent, they would be reconciled with the church, and we would have restored a brother or sister to fellowship... then the clean up begins...*** see below.


BuT if not.. they will be excluded.


You wrote an excellent post on one of the past pages about red flags...

True, if a Christian can sin, and sin, and sin, and the Holy Spirit doesn't bother them about it.. they had better check out their salvation....


*** clean up....

When this has happened, the Gossips in the church have to be dealt with as well.. .Gossip is as big a sin as adultery, maybe worse, as Gossip can destroy a whole church just not a couple families...

So, after the parties are reconciled, clean up begins.. . gossip is stopped, and if not, then they have to be matthew 18ed... (IS THAT a VERB?:laugh: )

Then the clean up in the community... for we all know that by this time EVERYONE around the church knows about Dick and Jane....

This is tricky... but God can use it for his Glory, if we take it slow, steady, and follow God. It can show the community, that with forgiveness, anyone can be used by God.. even former adulterers...

It is called Grace....

Anyway, that is the way we have always handled it in every church I have been a part of....

Also, be prepared to lose one of the offending families... it is a rare case that offended spouses can actually forgive and forget enought to do ministry together again... usually someone goes.

But that should happen after forgiveness, and only when God leads.

 

[rbell]

Tim, PM on your way...clean out your inbox!

 

[tinytim]

it be clean now!!!

 

[Outsider]

According to your earlier post, they aren't Christians if they commit adultery. From what I understand, church discipline is for the lost.

Not quite. I do not know who is a Christian and who is a deceiver. Only God knows who is His.
Mat 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
There will be people that do many wonderful works but Christ will tell them that He NEVER KNEW them.
No doubt these were what we would call "Good model Christians".

Church discipline is for those in the church. We have a responsibility to walk in the light and let our light shine. If someone is setting out a bad light, they are to be corrected. If they refuse, then we are not to fellowship with them.

 

[Outsider]

Matthew 18...
They are confronted.... and if they repent.. good.
If not, me and a deacon confront them... if they repent ... good
If not, they will be brought before the whole church ... to give them the chance to repent... if they repent.. good...


If at any point they repent, they would be reconciled with the church, and we would have restored a brother or sister to fellowship... then the clean up begins...*** see below.


BuT if not.. they will be excluded.


You wrote an excellent post on one of the past pages about red flags...

True, if a Christian can sin, and sin, and sin, and the Holy Spirit doesn't bother them about it.. they had better check out their salvation....


*** clean up....

When this has happened, the Gossips in the church have to be dealt with as well.. .Gossip is as big a sin as adultery, maybe worse, as Gossip can destroy a whole church just not a couple families...

So, after the parties are reconciled, clean up begins.. . gossip is stopped, and if not, then they have to be matthew 18ed... (IS THAT a VERB? )

Then the clean up in the community... for we all know that by this time EVERYONE around the church knows about Dick and Jane....

This is tricky... but God can use it for his Glory, if we take it slow, steady, and follow God. It can show the community, that with forgiveness, anyone can be used by God.. even former adulterers...

It is called Grace....

Anyway, that is the way we have always handled it in every church I have been a part of....

Also, be prepared to lose one of the offending families... it is a rare case that offended spouses can actually forgive and forget enought to do ministry together again... usually someone goes.

But that should happen after forgiveness, and only when God leads.

Amen. That is what the good book says.
Good night all and God bless!!!!

 

[charles_creech78]

OH, and eating too much fried chicken.. it harms your temple...
Drinking coffee harms your temple

So, you better not drink any coffee.. .it'll send you to Hell

OH< and don't go to McDonalds.. too many saturated fats that harm your temple... I can see it now, you pull out of McD's drivethru, and get sideswiped by a car, you die, and you are going to Hell...

But I forgot, Jesus will keep you from drinking coffee, or Mt. dew, or any caffenated beverage... and Jesus keeps us from McDs...

Better watch that chocolate too... it contains caffeine.. a drug that harms your body....

NO MORE HERSHEY BARs.... They're of the devil... of the devil I SAY!!!

Mt 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth DEFILEth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this DEFILEth a man.
Mt 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Mt 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
1co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your (OWN)?

1co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
2co 6:16 And what agreement hath the TEMPLE of God with idols? for ye are the TEMPLE of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[Joe]

You said that at the end of the post, but I figured you just added it. You said-
"There are people who are not born again but in the church. They commit adultry and other sins like that. Everything is fine until they get caught"

Thanks for the explanation

 

[charles_creech78]

There is not any specific sins that send a person to hell and others that do not.

All sin is worthy of damnation!

1jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. What was it that Christ destroyed? What is the work of the devil?