Sixty Days of Jail Time for Backyard Bible Study

[blackbird]

Let me offer another scenrio

Lets just say that the preacher in question is a "strict" by the book ordinance keeper----he has vowed inside of himself to stick to code---whereever he lives---and lets just say that he now lives where he is currently living with the codes on the book as they stand

Then I come in----I buy a couple of lots next door to him----in fact---one lot on one side of his house---another on the other side

Its a free country, right???

Suppose I make a decision----on one lot I begin construction of a "mini" hog farm and on the other side of the hapless preacher----I begin construction of a strip joint

How long would you say it would take before the preacher is "squeelin'" about my decision to the ordinance council?????

 

[blackbird]

I guess from your logic, a Super Bowl Party at someone's house would have to get a liquor license (since its a Bar), or a swimming pool party at someone's house has to have paid lifeguards (since it is a Public pool), and that Granny can't bake her neighbors cookies anymore without a license (since that is a bakery).

Commercial property designation requires PAYMENT for goods and services, and PAID STAFF, and is OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. NONE of those occur on this man's property.

The City is breaking the law and shredding the Constitution. Not only are they violating equal protection (since they said a party or other activity was fine...just not a bible study or "Worship service"...they are penalizing the man, not for number of people, but for the activity they are choosing to engage in), they are also violating the first amendment.

This country does not have a chance with person's such as yourself supporting Government oppression.

Agreeing with printed ordinances----does not make one an oppressor

 

[Havensdad]

Agreeing with printed ordinances----does not make one an oppressor

It does when those ordinances violate the constitution. You cannot label Bible study "commercial" in all instances.

 

[Havensdad]

Let me offer another scenrio

Lets just say that the preacher in question is a "strict" by the book ordinance keeper----he has vowed inside of himself to stick to code---whereever he lives---and lets just say that he now lives where he is currently living with the codes on the book as they stand

Then I come in----I buy a couple of lots next door to him----in fact---one lot on one side of his house---another on the other side

Its a free country, right???

Suppose I make a decision----on one lot I begin construction of a "mini" hog farm and on the other side of the hapless preacher----I begin construction of a strip joint

How long would you say it would take before the preacher is "squeelin'" about my decision to the ordinance council?????

It depends. If the "strip joint" and the "hog farm" did not trespass on the other's property, via sounds or smells, then the person would have absolutely no cause to complain. Its not their property.

So you are saying the police can tell a person, "You cannot study the Bible in your house." That is what you are saying?

 

[Crabtownboy]

It depends. If the "strip joint" and the "hog farm" did not trespass on the other's property, via sounds or smells, then the person would have absolutely no cause to complain. Its not their property.

What about sounds and smells from the preacher's property?

 

[Havensdad]

What about sounds and smells from the preacher's property?

If the preacher was having music that was too loud, etc., then the neighbor could complain. But that is a different issue than ordinances, and is no different than when your next door neighbors party gets too loud. You ask them to turn it down, if they don't, they can be cited for disturbing the peace.

However, that is not the case here. The Preacher has a large property, and their are no bothersome sounds. This is strictly a case of the city of phoenix calling any Bible study a "Church" (the man and his wife were being harassed by the city BEFORE the building, when they were meeting in his living room), and thus forbidding it in any non-commercial building.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Agreeing with printed ordinances----does not make one an oppressor

Thank you, brother.

It's just this simple.

In 2008, neighbors complained that Michael Salman was hosting bible studies in his backyard. He was cited by the city of Phoenix.
They say it was a "violation of Phoenix’s zoning, building, fire and safety code".

The neighbors may have a cruel intent in reporting the pastor - we don't know. But the city is just trying to uphold an already established ordinance about safety.

 

[freeatlast]

Well there is one thing for sure we are doomed as a people who follows the constitution and what freedoms and liberties are left will soon be gone . I have said before the church is responsible for what is happening to his nation and it is clear from what is being proposed here by the masses.

 

[Havensdad]

Thank you, brother.

It's just this simple.



The neighbors may have a cruel intent in reporting the pastor - we don't know. But the city is just trying to uphold an already established ordinance about safety.

An ordinance that is in violation of liberty, and established US law! You cannot just make up local ordinances that say "You aren't allowed to worship Jesus at your house."

That is STUPID. How could any right thinking individual support this???

What is wrong with you people?

 

[freeatlast]

An ordinance that is in violation of liberty, and established US law! You cannot just make up local ordinances that say "You aren't allowed to worship Jesus at your house."

That is STUPID. How could any right thinking individual support this???

What is wrong with you people?

It is the overall mind set of the entire nation brought about by the church that has left her first love. We no longer deserve the freedoms we once were given by the founding fathers. Those who understand had better prepare for what is ahead.

 

[Crabtownboy]

An ordinance that is in violation of liberty, and established US law! You cannot just make up local ordinances that say "You aren't allowed to worship Jesus at your house."

What established law are you speaking about?

That is STUPID. How could any right thinking individual support this???

What is wrong with you people?

How can any right thinking person defend someone who says he is building a game room and then holds church?z After all it does have a pulpit.

I have read your posts. You are not defending freedom, but license at the expense of everyone else. What about their freedoms?

 

[targus]

An ordinance that is in violation of liberty, and established US law! You cannot just make up local ordinances that say "You aren't allowed to worship Jesus at your house."

They didn't - they said that the frequency and number of people that he had over met the requirements for him to need a commercial building.

You cannot just make up local ordinances that say "You aren't allowed to worship Jesus at your house."

No one did. And you saying this is beyond silly.

 

[Havensdad]

They didn't - they said that the frequency and number of people that he had over met the requirements for him to need a commercial building.

Yes they did. They specifically told them that "more than 2" people engaging in "worship" was considered a Church. They specifically told them that other activities, with the same number of people, were permissible.

No one did. And you saying this is beyond silly.

Yes they did. And you denying it is not just silly; its wicked.

 

[Havensdad]

What established law are you speaking about?

The first amendment, and the equal protection clause.

How can any right thinking person defend someone who says he is building a game room and then holds church?z After all it does have a pulpit.

What would you like him to mark on the permit? "Parking Garage"? THERE IS NOT A BOX ON THE PERMIT FORMS FOR "Worship room"! The designation of a "Accessory/Game room" is an OFFICIAL designation, for permitting purposes. He did not LIE to anyone. An accessory building/game room, is a building or part of a building used for special, periodic purposes; parties, get togethers, etc. etc. THERE IS NTHER DESIGNATION that he could have used.

Oh, the ignorance of people on this forum!!

I have read your posts. You are not defending freedom, but license at the expense of everyone else. What about their freedoms?

WHOSE FREEDOMS? He is not doing ANYTHING too ANYONE.

 

[Scarlett O.]

An ordinance that is in violation of liberty, and established US law! You cannot just make up local ordinances that say "You aren't allowed to worship Jesus at your house."

That is STUPID. How could any right thinking individual support this???

What is wrong with you people?

I suppose that you are just going to have to show me where the city ordinance said that you cannot worship Christ in your home. I haven't seen that yet. Maybe I missed it.

The four articles that I read said that he was in violation safety codes and permits for housing an organization such as a church or other organization.

You and I are talking about two different things. At any rate, I don't seem to be doing anything but adding fuel to the fire, so I'm just not going to repeat myself anymore.

 

[LadyEagle]

Closing this thread - over the 10-page limit

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Lady Eagle
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