Slowly moving my wife towards Reformed Theology from IFB theology

[evangelist6589]

Given these two conflicting statements I get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.

At the time in my IFB days no Reformed could change me as the only the HS did that. In the same way no one can change my wife as its a job of the HS. Do you not believe this?

 

[Rippon]

Reformed Theology is not biblical.

To be charitable, you have not read too widely.

 

[evangelist6589]

Be cautious people. Winman is teaching some serious error in this post. First he is teaching the Ransom to Satan Atonement view which states that God had to pay Satan to purchase man's freedom, and second he is teaching a dualism between God and Satan which is false. Satan is a being and not God, and he cannot equally battle God. He only does what God allows him, and has no power other than what God has allowed him.

This is absolute error, the Devil is not God's servant, he is not God's "hit-man" going around doing God's dirty work as you falsely teach. The Devil is God's enemy, his adversary. They fight against each other, they do not work together.

You better be careful, the Pharisees accused Jesus of using the power of Beelzebub.

Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

You better be careful, teaching that Satan is God's servant is awfully close to accusing God of doing evil.

 

[quantumfaith]

Translation:

I need advice about how to subtly and manipulatively influence my wife's convictions......

God's grace is not, and never was truly sufficient to causally determine one's convictions.

I, believe subtle tactics must be used in order to shape her view one way or the other.
Your Theology is ragingly inconsistent.
You fight God's will at every turn.

If God's grace is sufficient to teach her all things in his own time than he will, and he won't need your manipulation to do it.

But, you don't do that.

Calvinists rarely do.

You lambast the "manipulation" of "altar-calls" and "Finney-ism" (or whatever the preferred zeitgeist is at the time) and then seek advice from fellow determinists about precisely how many verses of "Just as I am" are needed to manipulate your own wife into believing as you do while not seeming overly pushy.

Let God be Sovereign and stop trying to "help" him, and it may be just fine. (If your Theology was sound)...But you ask your own determinist brethren to help you manipulate her convictions in defiance of all you theoretically believe to be true, and they are MORE THAN HAPPY to oblige...

The hypocrisy and inconsistency is manifestly obvious.

B.T.W:
Just reading your posts, it sounds to me that she owns no less than every pair of pants in your presumptively Theologically sound family. Johny Mac may not have done you as good a turn as you think.

I married a die-hard Presby.....Calvinist Determinist who had the shorter Catechism memorized from age ten:

My tactic was simple:
I handed her books, I told her to search the Scriptures for herself and didn't hear excuses about her being too slothful or lazy to read books.........(an excuse which apparently flies in your wife's case).
She converted from a lifetime of determinism and Calvinism to Bible-Believing synergism quickly enough. By your own admission, you don't even rightly influence which Church your family attends, what they learn etc....

You have to "sneak-off" just to attend a Church of your preference?
That dog won't hunt dude.

You may think that you comprehend God's Sovereignty above all Arminians and what-not, but I can assure you of this:

You are no more the "Sovereign" in your own home than the man in the moon.

Maybe someone other than Piper or Mac can help you figure out how that's done.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[evangelist6589]

Why??? Just love her, take care of her while she's recovering from her injury, be the man God has called you to be. Please don't use this time while she's immobile to drive her crazy trying to convert her. She will listen to what you believe when you live it out and as she respects you as the leader of the home.

Sorry if I sound harsh. My wife was raised FWB, I've come to embrace the DOG over the past few years. I have no desire to "convert" her to what I believe the Bible teaches on this matter. She is a wonderful wife and a blessing from the Lord, and my greatest desire is just to put us in the best place to hear God's word preached and let the H.S. do what he does when he does it.

I agree with you, however how can I respect teachers in the IFB movement whom do not preach on SIN, and repentance, but instead preach a "God has a wonderful plan for your life" hook and sinker message at the Christmas service? The pastor did not mention sin, repentance, the Holiness of God, hell, judgment, or anything of the sort. Just a "God has a wonderful plan for your life" and then the alter call which led people to a prayer, but what did they repent from?? Why did they come to Christ? They came to better their life, not because they knew they were doomed to spend eternal judgment apartment from God. I cannot respect such sermons in such churches.

 

[quantumfaith]

To be charitable, you have not read too widely.

Are you certain? Perhaps he has, and this is the conclusion he has come to?

 

[Winman]

Be cautious people. Winman is teaching some serious error in this post. First he is teaching the Ransom to Satan Atonement view which states that God had to pay Satan to purchase man's freedom, and second he is teaching a dualism between God and Satan which is false, as Satan and God do not battle each other. Satan is a being and not God, and he cannot battle God. He only does what God allows him, and has no power other than what God has allowed him.

Satan cannot battle God? Have you ever actually read the Bible?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Dude, you need to quit reading books that are leading you into serious error and start reading the Bible. You don't know what you are talking about.

Do you see it says "the dragon fought, and his angels"? And then it tells us this dragon is the Devil, and Satan?

You are clueless.

 

[quantumfaith]

Anti-cal attack #1.



Anti-cal attack #2.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Everything which does not meet with your approval is by default an anti-cal attack. Consider your posts too.

 

[evangelist6589]

Are you certain? Perhaps he has, and this is the conclusion he has come to?

What doctrine has Andy Stanley led you to believe in? What theology books if any have you read since you have been in that church?

 

[quantumfaith]

And the opening post *wasn't* an anti-arminian attack?

Your use of the word "attack" might be a tad harsh, when you consider what Evan wrote in his opening post (i.e., combining "arminian teachings" with the words "anti-biblical").

Thank you for pointing that out Don. To add, the preacher often is disparaging toward anything arminian.

 

[evangelist6589]

Satan cannot battle God? Have you ever actually read the Bible?

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Dude, you need to quit reading books that are leading you into serious error and start reading the Bible. You don't know what you are talking about.

Do you see it says "the dragon fought, and his angels"? And then it tells us this dragon is the Devil, and Satan?

You are clueless.

Well he can battle God, however his power is very limited and as I mentioned he only does what God allows him. If God allows him to inspire Adam Lanza to murder innocent children then God has allowed this. If God allows him to battle the church and inspire the Charismatic movement, then God has allowed this. However he DOES NOTHING apart from God's power and sovereignty. You teach that God and Satan are co-equals but this is false.

PS- I corrected the word phrasing error in the OP. Satan can indeed battle God, but only if God allows it.

 

[quantumfaith]

Last night we listened to a Mac sermon and she loved it. She also loves Mac's study Bible which she carries every week to church. Sadly the IFB have blinded her about Reformed theology where she has thought negatively towards Calvinists, but that may change in time as she learns and gets exposed to more doctrine. I can't say that doctrine is very deep in our church and much of the teaching is very surface level. The apologetics/evangelism is no question Arminianism based as most of what Focus on the Family & the IFB movement has produced. She says she does not have time for books so I cannot get her any good books by Reformed authors such as ones by Mac, Piper, Washer, Comfort, etc.. However she has lots of time to listen to sermons, and I am striving to get her to think outside of the IFB movement and the shallowness of most of their preaching.

We had a discussion last night about the Sovereignty of God doctrine and I gave her the Reformed view, which in that view makes Satan a servant of God as Martin Luther said he is "God's Devil." Also in the Reformed view on Spiritual Warfare there is no need to read sensational books such as "This Present darkness" or others by Frank E. Peretti whom is teaching a very Arminian view of the topic. Yes he sells lots of books, but his teachings are not Biblical. Some in the IFB movement have endorsed this book, and the influences show up in our church, which I have highly rejected.

She holds strongly to the IFB teachings on "tithing" which are unbiblical. I have tried to get her to listen to what some Reformed have said on the topic but it has not worked. Also at our church they believe in "altar calls" and have been deceived by the deceptions of Charles Finney. I do not believe in altar calls as they are also unbiblical. Mac has exposed Finney in his teachings.

Fellow Reformed do you have any other ideas and or recommendations to offer that would help my wife? What moved me from the IFB ways was the teachings of Reformed that helped me see the light. However I was OPEN to suggestion and that made the difference.

I suggest you become a little like Fox News (Fair and Balanced) Get her some Andy Stanley sermons to listen to. Let her decide where theologically she wants to be.

 

[Winman]

Well he can battle God, however his power is very limited and as I mentioned he only does what God allows him. If God allows him to inspire Adam Lanza to murder innocent children then God has allowed this. If God allows him to battle the church and inspire the Charismatic movement, then God has allowed this. However he DOES NOTHING apart from God's power and sovereignty. You teach that God and Satan are co-equals but this is false.

Now you are agreeing with me.

You need to quit reading books FULL OF ERROR. Leave your poor wife alone, she is probably far closer to the truth than you are.

Satan is a powerful angel, he can do miracles. He cannot beat God of course, but he can give God a real battle. And Satan can deceive many persons and cause them to go to hell. This is how Satan hurts God, by causing people to be lost. He cannot directly harm God, so this is what he does.

Satan is not God's servant, whoever taught you that has taught you pure error.

 

[evangelist6589]

I suggest you become a little like Fox News (Fair and Balanced) Get her some Andy Stanley sermons to listen to. Let her decide where theologically she wants to be.

Andy Stanley????? No we need good theology served in a healthy diet of meat & vegetables. One cannot survive on candy based sermons such as ones by Andy Stanley. A good diet consists of good sermons from John MacArthur and Grace to You associated preachers.

 

[evangelist6589]

Now you are agreeing with me.

You need to quit reading books FULL OF ERROR. Leave your poor wife alone, she is probably far closer to the truth than you are.

Satan is a powerful angel, he can do miracles. He cannot beat God of course, but he can give God a real battle. And Satan can deceive many persons and cause them to go to hell. This is how Satan hurts God, by causing people to be lost. He cannot directly harm God, so this is what he does.

Satan is not God's servant, whoever taught you that has taught you pure error.

One cannot argue or debate with WinMan. He is not here to debate but to air his opinions & he has found a platform to do that here on the BB.

 

[Winman]

One cannot argue or debate with WinMan. He is not here to debate but to air his opinions & he has found a platform to do that here on the BB.

You are teaching pure error. Satan is God's enemy, his adversary. Satan cannot harm God, but Satan can hurt God by causing people to be lost.

You are the last person that should be telling someone else what to believe. Put down those books and read the Bible.

 

[quantumfaith]

Well he can battle God, however his power is very limited and as I mentioned he only does what God allows him. If God allows him to inspire Adam Lanza to murder innocent children then God has allowed this. If God allows him to battle the church and inspire the Charismatic movement, then God has allowed this. However he DOES NOTHING apart from God's power and sovereignty. You teach that God and Satan are co-equals but this is false.

PS- I corrected the word phrasing error in the OP. Satan can indeed battle God, but only if God allows it.

I think you owe WM an apology for this, he has never suggested God and Satan are co-equals.

 

[quantumfaith]

Andy Stanley????? No we need good theology served in a healthy diet of meat & vegetables. One cannot survive on candy based sermons such as ones by Andy Stanley. A good diet consists of good sermons from John MacArthur and Grace to You associated preachers.

I am not sure you would know a good sermon or homily if you actually paid attention and listened to it.

 

[evangelist6589]

I think you owe WM an apology for this, he has never suggested God and Satan are co-equals.

This thread has gotten completely OT.

 

[Winman]

This thread has gotten completely OT.

No it hasn't. You said you were trying to move your wife toward Reformed theology, and I am pointing out the serious errors in your theology.