Slowly moving my wife towards Reformed Theology from IFB theology

[evangelist6589]

Last night we listened to a Mac sermon and she loved it. She also loves Mac's study Bible which she carries every week to church. Sadly the IFB have blinded her about Reformed theology where she has thought negatively towards Calvinists, but that may change in time as she learns and gets exposed to more doctrine. I can't say that doctrine is very deep in our church and much of the teaching is very surface level. The apologetics/evangelism is no question Arminianism based as most of what Focus on the Family & the IFB movement has produced. She says she does not have time for books so I cannot get her any good books by Reformed authors such as ones by Mac, Piper, Washer, Comfort, etc.. However she has lots of time to listen to sermons, and I am striving to get her to think outside of the IFB movement and the shallowness of most of their preaching.

We had a discussion last night about the Sovereignty of God doctrine and I gave her the Reformed view, which in that view makes Satan a servant of God as Martin Luther said he is "God's Devil." Also in the Reformed view on Spiritual Warfare there is no need to read sensational books such as "This Present darkness" or others by Frank E. Peretti whom is teaching a very Arminian view of the topic. Yes he sells lots of books, but his teachings are not Biblical. Some in the IFB movement have endorsed this book, and the influences show up in our church, which I have highly rejected.

She holds strongly to the IFB teachings on "tithing" which are unbiblical. I have tried to get her to listen to what some Reformed have said on the topic but it has not worked. Also at our church they believe in "altar calls" and have been deceived by the deceptions of Charles Finney. I do not believe in altar calls as they are also unbiblical. Mac has exposed Finney in his teachings.

Fellow Reformed do you have any other ideas and or recommendations to offer that would help my wife? What moved me from the IFB ways was the teachings of Reformed that helped me see the light. However I was OPEN to suggestion and that made the difference.

 

[preacher4truth]

Last night we listened to a Mac sermon and she loved it. She also loves Mac's study Bible which she carries every week to church. Sadly the IFB have blinded her about Reformed theology where she has thought negatively towards Calvinists, but that may change in time as she learns and gets exposed to more doctrine. I can't say that doctrine is very deep in our church and much of the teaching is very surface level. The apologetics/evangelism is no question Arminianism based as most of what Focus on the Family & the IFB movement has produced. She says she does not have time for books so I cannot get her any good books by Reformed authors such as ones by Mac, Piper, Washer, Comfort, etc.. However she has lots of time to listen to sermons, and I am striving to get her to think outside of the IFB movement and the shallowness of most of their preaching.

Good for both of you.

We had a discussion last night about the Sovereignty of God doctrine and I gave her the Reformed view, which in that view makes Satan a servant of God as Martin Luther said he is "God's Devil." Also in the Reformed view on Spiritual Warfare there is no need to read sensational books such as "This Present darkness" or others by Frank E. Peretti whom is teaching a very Arminian view of the topic. Yes he sells lots of books, but his teachings are not Biblical. Some in the IFB movement have endorsed this book, and the influences show up in our church, which I have highly rejected.

IFB'ers are prone to teachings such as Perreti, Riplinger, Ruckman, Hagee and other false teachers.

She holds strongly to the IFB teachings on "tithing" which are unbiblical. I have tried to get her to listen to what some Reformed have said on the topic but it has not worked.

Rome wasn't built in a day, don't try to change everything at once. Just get her out of IFBism then she can grow from that point.

Fellow Reformed do you have any other ideas and or recommendations to offer that would help my wife? What moved me from the IFB ways was the teachings of Reformed that helped me see the light. However I was OPEN to suggestion and that made the difference.

Prayer, patience, love, teaching. Don't rush it.

 

[evangelist6589]

Good for both of you.



IFB'ers are prone to teachings such as Perreti, Riplinger, Ruckman, Hagee and other false teachers.



Rome wasn't built in a day, don't try to change everything at once. Just get her out of IFBism then she can grow from that point.



Prayer, patience, love, teaching. Don't rush it.

I often want to RUSH, and my ADD goes wild. Yes I need to learn to be PATIENT, and to pray.... Thanks for the tips. There is no magical formula except patience, prayer, and endurance. It took me time to change and no Reformed could change me. It took the Holy Spirit.

 

[preacher4truth]

I often want to RUSH, and my ADD goes wild. Yes I need to learn to be PATIENT, and to pray.... Thanks for the tips. There is no magical formula except patience, prayer, and endurance. It took me time to change and no Reformed could change me. It took the Holy Spirit.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

You two will be OK. Stay the course, be patient, praise God in it, be joyous. He's in charge.

 

[Salty]

.

... Also at our church they believe in "altar calls" and have been deceived by the deceptions of Charles Finney. I do not believe in altar calls as they are also unbiblical. Mac has exposed Finney in his teachings. ...

Scripture does not mandate an altar call - but unless you can show me the Scripture that prohibits an altar call - then you are wrong in saying it is unbiblical.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Scripture does not mandate an altar call - but unless you can show me the Scripture that prohibits an altar call - then you are wrong in saying it is unbiblical.

Scripture doesn't prohibit snake handling either.

 

[InTheLight]

What moved me from the IFB ways was the teachings of Reformed that helped me see the light. However I was OPEN to suggestion and that made the difference.

It took me time to change and no Reformed could change me. It took the Holy Spirit.

Given these two conflicting statements I get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Fellow Reformed do you have any other ideas and or recommendations to offer that would help my wife? What moved me from the IFB ways was the teachings of Reformed that helped me see the light. However I was OPEN to suggestion and that made the difference.

Translation:

I need advice about how to subtly and manipulatively influence my wife's convictions......

God's grace is not, and never was truly sufficient to causally determine one's convictions.

I, believe subtle tactics must be used in order to shape her view one way or the other.
Your Theology is ragingly inconsistent.
You fight God's will at every turn.

If God's grace is sufficient to teach her all things in his own time than he will, and he won't need your manipulation to do it.

But, you don't do that.

Calvinists rarely do.

You lambast the "manipulation" of "altar-calls" and "Finney-ism" (or whatever the preferred zeitgeist is at the time) and then seek advice from fellow determinists about precisely how many verses of "Just as I am" are needed to manipulate your own wife into believing as you do while not seeming overly pushy.

Let God be Sovereign and stop trying to "help" him, and it may be just fine. (If your Theology was sound)...But you ask your own determinist brethren to help you manipulate her convictions in defiance of all you theoretically believe to be true, and they are MORE THAN HAPPY to oblige...

The hypocrisy and inconsistency is manifestly obvious.

B.T.W:
Just reading your posts, it sounds to me that she owns no less than every pair of pants in your presumptively Theologically sound family. Johny Mac may not have done you as good a turn as you think.

I married a die-hard Presby.....Calvinist Determinist who had the shorter Catechism memorized from age ten:

My tactic was simple:
I handed her books, I told her to search the Scriptures for herself and didn't hear excuses about her being too slothful or lazy to read books.........(an excuse which apparently flies in your wife's case).
She converted from a lifetime of determinism and Calvinism to Bible-Believing synergism quickly enough. By your own admission, you don't even rightly influence which Church your family attends, what they learn etc....

You have to "sneak-off" just to attend a Church of your preference?
That dog won't hunt dude.

You may think that you comprehend God's Sovereignty above all Arminians and what-not, but I can assure you of this:

You are no more the "Sovereign" in your own home than the man in the moon.

Maybe someone other than Piper or Mac can help you figure out how that's done.

 

[JonC]

Scripture doesn't prohibit snake handling either.

Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'" Matthew 4:7

 

[Inspector Javert]

Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'" Matthew 4:7

Jesus was advocating his divinity...
"The Lord" is 'Yahweh'....

It doesn't originate from Matthew 4:7
He was quoting from the Old Testament.

By referring to HIMSELF as "The Lord thy God"...he was proclaiming his Divinity.

That is not the right application of that passage at all. You missed Michael's point completely. Which was a simple enough one:

Michael's point was merely that arguments from silence are invalid...it was simple enough: And it was sound.

 

[preacher4truth]

Given these two conflicting statements I get the sense you don't know what you are talking about.

Anti-cal attack #1.

Translation: I need advice about how to subtly and manipulatively influence my wife's convictions......

Anti-cal attack #2.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Anti-cal attack #1.
Anti-cal attack #2.

Yes...

And they were perfectly sound expositions and critiques of a Theology which is severely lacking and false.

If your Theology were sound, you wouldn't be jumping at the chance to teach him how to manipulate his wife into believing as you do....

But, that's what happened:

You let him lambast Charles Finney in post 1:
and then sought to teach him how to use those same tactics in your proceeding posts.

Hey....I didn't do it, you did. It is no sin if I expose the obvious to the readers.

 

[Winman]

We had a discussion last night about the Sovereignty of God doctrine and I gave her the Reformed view, which in that view makes Satan a servant of God as Martin Luther said he is "God's Devil."

This is absolute error, the Devil is not God's servant, he is not God's "hit-man" going around doing God's dirty work as you falsely teach. The Devil is God's enemy, his adversary. They fight against each other, they do not work together.

You better be careful, the Pharisees accused Jesus of using the power of Beelzebub.

Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

You better be careful, teaching that Satan is God's servant is awfully close to accusing God of doing evil.

 

[exscentric]

IF the system is so Scriptural why must you scheme and manipulate another person to convince them of its truth? Why not teach the Word?

Beware your wife's reaction if she finds out you are using seemingly underhanded methods .. not saying you are but it kinda looks that way. She may or may not appreciate it. If you are I would fess up and get open with what you are up to.

 

[JonC]

Jesus was advocating his divinity...
"The Lord" is 'Yahweh'....

It doesn't originate from Matthew 4:7
He was quoting from the Old Testament.

By referring to HIMSELF as "The Lord thy God"...he was proclaiming his Divinity.

That is not the right application of that passage at all. You missed Michael's point completely. Which was a simple enough one:

Michael's point was merely that arguments from silence are invalid...it was simple enough: And it was sound.

Yes, it’s an OT quote, I just chose to quote it from the NT instead.

So you are saying that Jesus was saying, essentially - ‘Satan! I am your God, don’t test me?’

But here we disagree as I don’t see the remark as advocating divinity but obedience. Satan acknowledged Christ’s divinity in that very verse. Christ was obedient to the will of the Father.

I do get your point, however. It’s the argument that often arises when one discusses instrumental worship. The NT doesn’t say use pianos so we can’t. I don’t think so. Salty is correct - an altar call is not unbiblical as one can derive the practice from the principle (acknowledging Christ before men, the response to Christ’s call to follow Him, etc). It’s fine to differ, call out abuses, and debate the issue. It’s not to simply call such practices “unbiblical."

 

[Don]

Anti-cal attack #1.
Anti-cal attack #2.

Nothing more, nothing less.

And the opening post *wasn't* an anti-arminian attack?

Your use of the word "attack" might be a tad harsh, when you consider what Evan wrote in his opening post (i.e., combining "arminian teachings" with the words "anti-biblical").

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Reformed Theology is not biblical.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Why??? Just love her, take care of her while she's recovering from her injury, be the man God has called you to be. Please don't use this time while she's immobile to drive her crazy trying to convert her. She will listen to what you believe when you live it out and as she respects you as the leader of the home.

Sorry if I sound harsh. My wife was raised FWB, I've come to embrace the DOG over the past few years. I have no desire to "convert" her to what I believe the Bible teaches on this matter. She is a wonderful wife and a blessing from the Lord, and my greatest desire is just to put us in the best place to hear God's word preached and let the H.S. do what he does when he does it.

 

[Rippon]

She says she does not have time for books so I cannot get her any good books by Reformed authors such as ones by Mac, Piper, Washer, Comfort, etc.. However she has lots of time to listen to sermons, and I am striving to get her to think outside of the IFB movement and the shallowness of most of their preaching.


Fellow Reformed do you have any other ideas and or recommendations to offer that would help my wife? What moved me from the IFB ways was the teachings of Reformed that helped me see the light. However I was OPEN to suggestion and that made the difference.

Does your wife read your posts?

 

[Winman]

Does your wife read your posts?

He better hope not.