So why are the old Fundamentalist mad at the young ones?

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Are yall saying that no one can follow clear teachings of Scripture as to establish sound doctrine??????

Absolutely emphatically not. What I am saying is that there are no scriptures that I know of pertaining to music that can be used to establish a rigid dogma.

Are there things to watch for? Yes. Should we always question whether our judgments are based on cultural tastes, biases, or traditions rather than scripture? I say YES, YES, YES.

Isn't the Holy Ghost still the One who guides into all Truth???

Yes. But there are some who seem to think the Holy Spirit always agrees with their personal preferences and traditional views.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Scott J:

Stick with the Word and we have no problem. Add the traditions of men... and you venture to speak for God when He has chosen to remain silent.

Just make sure you aren't found sticking your fingers in your ears going, "Na-na-na-na-na-na!".

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Salamander:
Are yall saying that no one can follow clear teachings of Scripture as to establish sound doctrine??????

Absolutely emphatically not. What I am saying is that there are no scriptures that I know of pertaining to music that can be used to establish a rigid dogma.</font>[/QUOTE]Try "solemn sound" and apply that according to the culture of that day compared to today.

Are there things to watch for? Yes. Should we always question whether our judgments are based on cultural tastes, biases, or traditions rather than scripture? I say YES, YES, YES.

I will agree, though my agreement isn't the authority

Isn't the Holy Ghost still the One who guides into all Truth???

Yes. But there are some who seem to think the Holy Spirit always agrees with their personal preferences and traditional views. [/QUOTE] No "yes, but" to it. Either the Spirit itsself beareth/ (continually) witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, or we are taking on another spirit diametrically opposed to the Holy Spirit: also known to be the flesh as opposed to God.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Salamander:


What helps to breed immorality by those things associated with immoral behaviour ought to be considered to be opposite and contrary to the "old paths".

OK. Leisure time created by modern conveniences such as cars, electricity, running water, sewer, computers, etc need to be discarded. In a day when more time was required just to survive, people had less time to consider sin.

Of course I am being facetious... while pointing out the slippery slope you have set yourself on.

Dress,

[qb] Yes. We should discard our ungodly attire and dress like Paul did.

[qb]materialism,

Yes. As mentioned before, we need to forsake all modern convenience as the traditional Amish have done. They have rightly discerned that modern convenience are of the devil, right?

and music

Yes. Let's see if someone can turn up the kind of music prevalent in Paul's day and use it only... Get rid of those wicked pianos and organs... dey aur da debil Bobby Boucheau.

are the majority in those things to lead one astray from the Old paths.

Wow... All this time I thought what led away from the Old Paths was departing to the left or right from what scripture teaches.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14

 

[rbell]

"Dress, materialism, and music are the majority in those things to lead one astray from the Old paths. "

In fact, according to the book of 2 Hesitations, those are actually the ONLY sins that lead anyone astray.

Gossip, envy, strife, backbiting, malice...nah...it's the chick playing drums who's wearing a Hollister sweatshirt.

BTW, I'm glad Paul discarded his ungodly attire. The miniskirts he wore in the early years offended me.

I'm not sure if sarcasm is a spiritual gift, but I'm exercising it nonetheless...

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Dress, materialism, and music are the majority in those things to lead one astray from the Old paths.

And I am sure you have Bible proof to support this contention?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

doesn't sound like sarcasm to me, more like dry humor.

 

[MikeinGhana]

Hey, maybe it is the humor of the young Fundamentalists that the old fundamentalists do not like!

 

[4His_glory]

Originally posted by MikeinGhana:
Hey, maybe it is the humor of the young Fundamentalists that the old fundamentalists do not like!

Yeah, its easy to be cynical about some things. Some times it helps keep one sane.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I believe the church for the most part has followed the secular world. I believe TV is out to get the 35 and below group and most advertisments are for that group also. This is great, because they will spend more money most of the time.
But most churches are doing the same. Music is taste for the most part, but bad or weak lyrics are had to listen to.
From an old guy most of the music I hear in churches that I speak(some churches) at or go to while on the road sounds to me like Pentecostal music from the past or the style seems to be. In so many of the churches I hear the same thing from so many pastors, the older members do not like our music but it sure brings the young folks in. My answer, why not do what the old folks like every other week or every 4 or 5 weeks. They tell me the younger won't go for it. I don't understand. Aren't all groups(ages) part of the church? Why not mix it up and please all if you can.

 

[MikeinGhana]

Bob

The problem is with the statement, "try to please all." The church is to please God. I have my own convictions, preferences, likes, and dislikes when it comes to music, style of worship and so on. The problem that causes all the bickering is, what pleases God? Here is where we are falling out with each other. The old versus the young is only a manifestation of the deeper problem.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by MikeinGhana:
The problem that causes all the bickering is, what pleases God?

Agreed. Some like to bicker about the outside of the cup. God is pleased with the heart.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Music and dress styles change over time. So as long as there is time all music and dress styles will become old.
I said a while back ythat I like SGM and Gospel bluegrass,which is true. But I don't like all of it and I certainly don't go out and by cd's of gospel by Hank Williams Jr.. In other words if I know they are living like the devil I don't buy thier music.Same goes for CCM.Just like SGM some of it is good and some is not so good.I say all music that honors God is good.
Although clothing styles change modesty in dress does not. I think you can dress stylishly and modestly at the same time.People are also prone to follow what you do better than what you say.
When we look askance at folks comming into our churches who do not look like us,talk like us,do not drive middle class cars,or live in middle class homes, we should ask ourselves one question,"are these the people Jesus would be seeking out to spend His time and energy on if He were present with us today?
We get all tied up with dress,music,BV onlyism,and extra legalism,plus a hundered other mindless and useless other things that I wonder are we pleasing satan more than we are pleasing God?I don't know that I am angry or upset at any young fundamentalist.I think we have different definitions of what fundamentalism is.I would say I am along the lines (at least I try to hold this position)R.A.Torrey and his book (he edited)"The Fundamentals".I think that is a balanced outlook on what fundamentalism really is or should be.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Originally posted by MikeinGhana:

The problem is with the statement, "try to please all." The church is to please God.

I don't think you are saying one kind of music is more pleasing to God . My question if you have a church that feels like the music has to be all one way or the other, I think you are putting one group of Christians over another. I guess over the past I've seen more churches split over music than anything else. That is a sad state for the church to be in. I'm sure on both sides or should I say all sides are christians, but my point do they want to glorify God or please one group, young, middleage or old.
I would say off hand we have had 4 or 5 pastors leave churches over music and 3 more church split over music in the area in which I speak and travel. I know that does not glorify God.
I see so much of the same attitude in the church as I see in the world, my way or the highway.
Music isn't that big to me, if I understand the music and believe the words are sound in doctrine, I sing along if not I pray, no fuss.

 

[MikeinGhana]

Yes, but if there is not a standard by which the Bible can determine good from bad or right from wrong, do we not fall into the sin of becoming judge. The Bible warns us that when there is no king (no rule or standard), every man will do that which is right in his own eyes. That will not work!

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by MikeinGhana:
Yes, but if there is not a standard by which the Bible can determine good from bad or right from wrong, do we not fall into the sin of becoming judge. The Bible warns us that when there is no king (no rule or standard), every man will do that which is right in his own eyes. That will not work!

Definitely there are standards. Some like to use standards that Christ criticized which judged based on the outside of the cup. Christ tells us what standards God really cares about.

 

[MikeinGhana]

True, but sometimes the outside is a reflection of what is on the inside. "Out" of the heart flows the issues of life.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by MikeinGhana:
True, but sometimes the outside is a reflection of what is on the inside. "Out" of the heart flows the issues of life.

Agreed. And when someone's heart is totally in love with Christ and praising His grace to a sinner, the outside often reflects it whether it is done to hymns, rock music, chanting, quoting scripture, dancing for joy or however they chose to externally express it. The pure inside of the cup overwhelms what the cup appears like on the outside to the Pharisees. But some only see the outside of the cup.

 

[Paul33]

Speaking of cups, maybe it's time for a beer.