Some arguments against Calvinism

[kyredneck]

Give me a break, you tell us a man has to continue, persevere, or endure to the end to be saved, how is that monergism? :laugh:

You can't just redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean at the moment.

No, the scriptures make no bones about the necessity to continue in the faith to be saved. See my previous posts.

I'll paraphrase the verse the way I think you believe it means:

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt 'go to heaven', both thyself and them that hear thee. 2 Tim 4:16

...or

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt be 'born from above' both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

...or

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt be 'regenerated' both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

This shallow take on the passage implies that neither Timothy nor any of that flock were yet regenerate, or bound for heaven, which is absurd.

 

[kyredneck]

Boy, too bad you guys weren't around to correct Paul, he not only believed a man took part in his own salvation, but he believed a man took part in other folks salvation as well.....

Again, I'll paraphrase what I think you mean:

Boy, too bad you guys weren't around to correct Paul, he not only believed a man took part in his own eternal destiny, but he believed a man took part in other folks eternal destiny as well...

 

[steaver]

Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

I don't know how many noncals here would actually agree with Arminian.

I believe God must open the heart of man in order for man to make a choice for Christ. God has the preeminence in all things.

I do not believe this opening is regeneration, but is only the invitation to believe and receive Jesus Christ.

To say yes to Christ is not cooperating with the Holy Ghost in regeneration. To say yes to Christ is to accept God's offer and ask Jesus Christ to save. One cannot ask unless God first opens the door and presents the opportunity. This is only an opportunity, it is not a given done deal that the person will say yes.

So I am definitely not a Synergist. I suppose I am a Monergist as you have it defined since I believe the one receiving the regeneration has no part in that act of God, they only agreed to have it done.

.

 

[Winman]

I don't know how many noncals here would actually agree with Arminian.

I believe God must open the heart of man in order for man to make a choice for Christ. God has the preeminence in all things.

I do not believe this opening is regeneration, but is only the invitation to believe and receive Jesus Christ.

To say yes to Christ is not cooperating with the Holy Ghost in regeneration. To say yes to Christ is to accept God's offer and ask Jesus Christ to save. One cannot ask unless God first opens the door and presents the opportunity. This is only an opportunity, it is not a given done deal that the person will say yes.

So I am definitely not a Synergist. I suppose I am a Monergist as you have it defined since I believe the one receiving the regeneration has no part in that act of God, they only agreed to have it done.

.

NOBODY believes man plays a part in regeneration, that is a supernatural act that only God can perform.

But man has to believe before God will regenerate him, and that is man cooperating with God in salvation.

That said, no man could believe if God had not first revealed the gospel to him, no man is born with this knowledge. If you are saved, it is because someone told you the gospel, and God sent that person to preach.

Nevertheless, you have to HEAR. You could refuse to hear, or you can choose to listen, that is your option. You have to hear, and you have to place your trust in Jesus. That is your part. There is nothing supernatural about this, it is simply a response to the gospel.

Then when you believe or come to Jesus for salvation, Jesus himself saves you. All your sins are forgiven and you receive the Holy Spirit. This is supernatural, and God alone performs this.

 

[Winman]

No, the scriptures make no bones about the necessity to continue in the faith to be saved. See my previous posts.

I'll paraphrase the verse the way I think you believe it means:

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt 'go to heaven', both thyself and them that hear thee. 2 Tim 4:16

...or

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt be 'born from above' both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

...or

Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt be 'regenerated' both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

This shallow take on the passage implies that neither Timothy nor any of that flock were yet regenerate, or bound for heaven, which is absurd.

I like the one I underlined. He is telling Timothy to take heed to himself and continue in the doctrine, in so doing he will go to heaven when he dies, and those that hear him will also trust Jesus and go to heaven when they die.

It doesn't imply that Timothy is not regenerate, it only says the proof of that regeneration will be if he continues in sound doctrine.

It is a subtle message, but I believe Albert Barnes grasped it;

For in doing this thou shalt both save thyself - By holding of the truth, and by the faithful performance of your duties, you will secure the salvation of the soul. We are not to suppose that the apostle meant to teach that this would be the meritorious cause of his salvation, but that these faithful labors would be regarded as an evidence of piety, and would be accepted as such. It is equivalent to saying, that an unfaithful minister of the gospel cannot be saved; one who faithfully performs all the duties of that office with a right spirit, will be.

It is not saying a person must earn or merit salvation. It is saying that a person's perseverance will be evidence that they are truly regenerated.

If a person does not continue and falls away, this will be evidence they were never regenerated in the first place.

This is why I keep quoting 1 Jhn 3:9, a person who has truly believed has been washed clean, and their spirit has been joined with the Holy Spirit to become ONE spirit. This is the new creature. This new creature cannot fall away in sin because the Holy Spirit will always remain in them and cannot sin.

1 Jhn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The evidence that this person is born again is that they will never fall away. They can't.

 

[psalms109:31]

So I understand you, you are answering this as a "Synergist"..... IE, you are stating that divine sovereignty must somehow be accommodated to human capability. Therefore both election & reprobation are not divine decrees; they are based on human choices. The efficacy of atonement does not rest on Christ's saving work alone but on the sinners faith & repentance.

No divine sovereignty has nothing to do with man's evil desires.

If everything around me is destroyed and I turn away from God for it, what happened around me was divine sovereignty, but me turning away from God isn't I did it and I am responsible for my actions.

If God put a hedge of protection around me, will that stop a killer from killing? No, it will just prevent a killer from killing me, but someone else will die for my salvation. The killer will still kill, but not me.

They are responsible.

God doesn't make anyone a murderer they are a murderer on their own evil desires, sovereignty has nothing to do with it.

We are responsible for our own actions.



Ezekiel 23:35 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Since you have forgotten me and turned your back on me, you must bear the consequences of your lewdness and prostitution.”

Ezekiel 33
8 When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for[Or in; also in verse 9] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 9 But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.

10 “Son of man, say to the Israelites, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of[Or away in] them. How then can we live?”’ 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’


James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.



I am saved for what Christ did for me wages of my sin is death. I can't pay my debt and I must trust Christ that He will do what He said He will do.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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