Some Liberty University Grads Are Returning Their Diplomas To Protest Trump

[JonC]

Not one of the people you mentioned are qualified speakers at a Christian University nor, in my opinion, at a public university.

I know. But I suspect that you wouldn't see the value of a seminary student studying the works of people like James Arminius, Karl Barth, or Søren Kierkegaard because their ideas and understanding doesn't fit into your tradition. Like I said, we have a very different idea of what "education" means.

 

[MennoSota]

Seminaries. You mean, again, seminaries. Churches commission (or should commission) institutes of higher learning to train men and women for the ministry....not to be molecular biologists, lawyers, and engineers.

If you think that teaching students to be a zoologist (and a second rate one at that, since they can only concentrate on Christian contributions to the field) is the purpose of the church (and that school parachurch) then I'd say you have a more general idea of the church than is presented in Scripture.

You are wrong.
Secondly, brilliant Christian minds are in all the sciences. There is nothing second rate about Christianity and science being unified.
Every student at a Christian University receives bible training as well as training in various areas of focus. This is why parents send their children to college...to come alongside them and help them prepare their children to be Godly adults. Those things don't just happen in seminary. You're simply missing the purpose of a liberal arts Christian University.

 

[MennoSota]

I know. But I suspect that you wouldn't see the value of a seminary student studying the works of people like James Arminius, Karl Barth, or Søren Kierkegaard because their ideas and understanding doesn't fit into your tradition. Like I said, we have a very different idea of what "education" means.

I have no problem with someone studying other views when it fits with the course objectives. Each of the people you state fit well in a survey class, which can be taught at a freshman/sophomore level in college. Why do you imagine that Christianity is relegated only to seminaries. That's just foolish as nearly every Christian University has general electives pertaining to the faith.

 

[JonC]

You are wrong.
Secondly, brilliant Christian minds are in all the sciences. There is nothing second rate about Christianity and science being unified.

I never said that brilliant Christian minds are not in the sciences. I am saying that when a university restricts itself to only considering the words of like-minded Christians they produce sub-par professionals.

When I go to a doctor I want a doctor who was taught though his education how to doctor, not how to understand Scripture (although I'd prefer one that could do that as well). What you are looking for is called "isolation", and it is not education but indoctrination.

 

[JonC]

I have no problem with someone studying other views when it fits with the course objectives. Each of the people you state fit well in a survey class, which can be taught at a freshman/sophomore level in college. Why do you imagine that Christianity is relegated only to seminaries. That's just foolish as nearly every Christian University has general electives pertaining to the faith.

I have never said that Christianity is relegated only to seminaries. You've switched the wording to make it appear as such. I said that Liberty University is not a parachurch organization, but I could understand how the seminary would be. That is very different from what you are trying to make my words mean.

Do you believe that a doctors office full of Christian doctors, maintaining Christian ethics, constitutes a parachurch organization? Yes, of course you do because that's how you define parachurch. But you are wrong. Could it be? Yes, if the practice became an evangelistic mission.

Here's another example. I manage a company that stresses Christian values in how we conduct business. We attend and allow our employees to attend functions and dinners at church, and we provide the cost for the events. By your standard we are a parachurch organization. But we are not. Our focus is business and to make money (ethically).

Did you graduate from Liberty University, or are you a current student at the university?

 

[MennoSota]

I never said that brilliant Christian minds are not in the sciences. I am saying that when a university restricts itself to only considering the words of like-minded Christians they produce sub-par professionals.

When I go to a doctor I want a doctor who was taught though his education how to doctor, not how to understand Scripture (although I'd prefer one that could do that as well). What you are looking for is called "isolation", and it is not education but indoctrination.

I'll bring it back to the OP for you. We're talking about...Donald Trump. No one goes to Donald Trump to get any quality advice...unless it's how to bully your way into a room and how to manipulate others to your own advantage. Why would any Christian organization invite such a person and then endorse that person to the highest public office in the land? You'd have to ignore all scripture to endorse Ahab or Jezebel. Why endorse the two extremely flawed candidates promoted by the two broken down elite political parties?

 

[JonC]

I'll bring it back to the OP for you. We're talking about...Donald Trump. No one goes to Donald Trump to get any quality advice...unless it's how to bully your way into a room and how to manipulate others to your own advantage. Why would any Christian organization invite such a person and then endorse that person to the highest public office in the land? You'd have to ignore all scripture to endorse Ahab or Jezebel. Why endorse the two extremely flawed candidates promoted by the two broken down elite political parties?

I'll bring it back to the OP. We are talking about the President of the United States speaking at Liberty University (the U.S. President speaking to an American University) and trying to see if it is appropriate. The fact so many question an American University respecting and supporting the office of the President shows just how far we have declined as a nation and as a church.

We are not speaking of that University endorsing the President's policies. We are not speaking of the University endorsing his candidacy (while Falwell did support candidate Trump, we are talking about President Trump). There are far too many "Christians" who like to ignore Scripture when it doesn't set well with their politics (on both sides). But the fact is a university within the US had the President of the US as a speaker and this is appropriate.

And the question remains - did you graduate from Liberty University or are you a current student?

 

[TCassidy]

Not one of the people you mentioned are qualified speakers at a Christian University nor, in my opinion, at a public university.

Why not? All have at least an undergraduate degree.

President Trump attended Fordham University and the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania where received a bachelor’s degree in economics, Both Fordham and Wharton are top flight schools. Wharton is considered the best business school in the nation.

So, you say they are not qualified to speak at a university. Why not? What criteria do you impose to consider them qualified?

 

[MennoSota]

I never said that brilliant Christian minds are not in the sciences. I am saying that when a university restricts itself to only considering the words of like-minded Christians they produce sub-par professionals.

When I go to a doctor I want a doctor who was taught though his education how to doctor, not how to understand Scripture (although I'd prefer one that could do that as well). What you are looking for is called "isolation", and it is not education but indoctrination.

No one is saying what you claim. I am saying that Donald Trump is an unworthy person to have as a guest speaker and should never be asked to share his hocum. What qualified professional would ever invite an untrained speaker into their classroom? If they did, they students would be right in complaining to the administration.
The alumnae at Liberty are doing exactly what they ought to do in order to protest a foolish choice by the University president.

Remember, this thread is about Donald Trump.

 

[MennoSota]

I have never said that Christianity is relegated only to seminaries. You've switched the wording to make it appear as such. I said that Liberty University is not a parachurch organization, but I could understand how the seminary would be. That is very different from what you are trying to make my words mean.

Do you believe that a doctors office full of Christian doctors, maintaining Christian ethics, constitutes a parachurch organization? Yes, of course you do because that's how you define parachurch. But you are wrong. Could it be? Yes, if the practice became an evangelistic mission.

Here's another example. I manage a company that stresses Christian values in how we conduct business. We attend and allow our employees to attend functions and dinners at church, and we provide the cost for the events. By your standard we are a parachurch organization. But we are not. Our focus is business and to make money (ethically).

Did you graduate from Liberty University, or are you a current student at the university?

I have explained how Christian Universities and Colleges have been established. As such they are parachurch organizations. If you cannot see the structure and how they fit in alignment, I cannot imagine how I can be anymore clear.

 

[JonC]

No one is saying what you claim. I am saying that Donald Trump is an unworthy person to have as a guest speaker and should never be asked to share his hocum. What qualified professional would ever invite an untrained speaker into their classroom? If they did, they students would be right in complaining to the administration.
The alumnae at Liberty are doing exactly what they ought to do in order to protest a foolish choice by the University president.

Remember, this thread is about Donald Trump.

A few alumni are making a political statement by returning a piece of paper to the school because the university did not make the political statement they equate with Christianity. So what?

Remember, this thread is NOT about Donald Trump but about a few fools who happened to graduate from Liberty University.

 

[MennoSota]

I'll bring it back to the OP. We are talking about the President of the United States speaking at Liberty University (the U.S. President speaking to an American University) and trying to see if it is appropriate. The fact so many question an American University respecting and supporting the office of the President shows just how far we have declined as a nation and as a church.

We are not speaking of that University endorsing the President's policies. We are not speaking of the University endorsing his candidacy (while Falwell did support candidate Trump, we are talking about President Trump). There are far too many "Christians" who like to ignore Scripture when it doesn't set well with their politics (on both sides). But the fact is a university within the US had the President of the US as a speaker and this is appropriate.

And the question remains - did you graduate from Liberty University or are you a current student?

Would you expect Elisha to bring a wicked King of Israel to come speak to his school of prophets?
Elisha would never have been so foolish.
Being President does not equate Christians supporting and endorsing that President. Would Liberty have invited and supported Hillary Clinton (Hildabeast)? I would think not. Why then would any Christian University invite and endorse Trump (the Oompa Loompa)?
Alumnae have every right to be upset at such a foolish decision by the president of Liberty University.

 

[MennoSota]

Why not? All have at least an undergraduate degree.

President Trump attended Fordham University and the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania where received a bachelor’s degree in economics, Both Fordham and Wharton are top flight schools. Wharton is considered the best business school in the nation.

So, you say they are not qualified to speak at a university. Why not? What criteria do you impose to consider them qualified?

I propose an expert in Economics, not a guy who has actually been a poor money manager. Would you expect uncle Joe from Joe's BBQ to come to a University economics class just because he received his undergrad diploma in Econ?

 

[MennoSota]

A few alumni are making a political statement by returning a piece of paper to the school because the university did not make the political statement they equate with Christianity. So what?

Remember, this thread is NOT about Donald Trump but about a few fools who happened to graduate from Liberty University.

This is about the foolish choice of a University president being called out by intelligent alumnae.

 

[Crabtownboy]

A few alumni are making a political statement by returning a piece of paper to the school because the university did not make the political statement they equate with Christianity. So what?

And the president was making a political statement supporting a man that many view as immoral and certainly does not represent Christian values.

Remember, this thread is NOT about Donald Trump but about a few fools who happened to graduate from Liberty University.

Is everyone who does not agree with you a fool?

What does scripture say about calling others fools?

 

[Crabtownboy]

And the president was making a political statement supporting a man that many view as immoral and certainly does not represent Christian values.



Is everyone who does not agree with you a fool?

What does scripture say about calling others fools?

The students may be the wise ones. After all a wise man often look ridiculous to fools. I'd say this is the case with the students. They are the wise ones who learned Christian values Falwell no longer seems to support.

 

[JonC]

And the president was making a political statement supporting a man that many view as immoral and certainly does not represent Christian values.



Is everyone who does not agree with you a fool?

What does scripture say about calling others fools?

Falwell can make a political statement. So what?

Was Liberty making a political statement when they invited Ted Kennedy? No. What about Beck, or any of the others? No. If course not.

And no, everyone who disagrees with me is not a fool. I don't think you a fool. But to send back your diploma because your university invited the President to speak is a meanginless fools errand. They are fools.

 

[JonC]

This is about the foolish choice of a University president being called out by intelligent alumnae.

That is silly. First, we are only talking about a few people and a meaningless gesture. Second, President Trump is qualified (both his education, experience, and posistion as the leader of the US. In other words, he is qualified to be your President, and he is qualified to speak at a university.

 

[TCassidy]

I propose an expert in Economics, not a guy who has actually been a poor money manager. Would you expect uncle Joe from Joe's BBQ to come to a University economics class just because he received his undergrad diploma in Econ?

No, but I am smart enough to know that a man does not build a fortune in excess of 10 billion dollars by being a "poor money manager." Duh!

An expert in economics? The President earned a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Wharton Business, the top rated business school in the country. Duh, again!

 

[MennoSota]

That is silly. First, we are only talking about a few people and a meaningless gesture. Second, President Trump is qualified (both his education, experience, and posistion as the leader of the US. In other words, he is qualified to be your President, and he is qualified to speak at a university.

We disagree.
What we currently have is an Ahab in the Whitehouse.