vooks
Active Member
When did he tell you because I missed the memo?
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Some think 'Angels' can procreate. The Scripture [KJB] declares, 'Not so.'
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vooks
Active Member
All animals are supposed to produce after their kind. What did you expect man to produce if not after his likeness? Stop being shallow
Romans 1:23 is talking about WORSHIP not man changing his image. Man worshipped corruptible things, worshipped the creature instead of the Creator. Which part of that talks of man changing his image?
I keep on telling you you are hopelessly incoherent. Can you try at least to share one or two verses at a time and then invite feedback?
Quoting scriptures is not communicating, in fact in your case, it is a disguise for your ignorance, lack of tact or wisdom. Can you at the very least study Acts and Romans and see how they used scriptures to communicate?
Look at this scripture and tell me what you can read;
James 3:9 (ESV)
9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God
1 Corinthians 11:7 (ESV)
7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
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One Baptism
Active Member
Sons of God, Children of the Light, Resurrection, the Heirs of the Father, etc:
"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." [Genesis 6:2]
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown." [Genesis 6:4]
"Ye [are] the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead." [Deuteronomy 14:1]
"Doubtless thou [art] our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, [art] our father, our redeemer; thy name [is] from everlasting." [Isaiah 63:16]
"But now, O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand." [Isaiah 64:8]
"I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:" [2 Samuel 7:14] [Notice the two groups again, those of God's children, and those of the children of men]
"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God." [Hosea 1:10]
"Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." [Matthew 5:9]
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." [Matthew 6:9]
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." [Matthew 5:45]
"Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God." [Luke 3:38]
"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil." [Luke 6:35]
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." [Luke 6:36]
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." [Luke 11:2]
"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." [Luke 20:26]
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" [John 1:12]
"And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." [John 11:52]
"While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them." [John 12:36]
"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Romans 1:7]
"Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." [1 Corinthians 1:3]
"Grace [be] to you and peace from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." [2 Corinthians 1:2]
"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" [Galatians 1:4]
"Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." [Philippians 1:2]
"Now unto God and our Father [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen." [Philippians 4:20]
"To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Colossians 1:2]
"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." [1 Thessalonians 1:1]
"Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." [1 Thessalonians 3:11]
"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." [1 Thessalonians 3:13]
"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:" [2 Thessalonians 1:1]
"Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [2 Thessalonians 1:2]
"Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace," [2 Thessalonians 2:16]
"To Titus, [mine] own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour." [Titus 1:4]
"Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Philemon 1:3]
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." [Romans 8:14]
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" [Romans 8:16]
"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together." [Romans 8:17]
"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God." [Romans 8:19]
"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." [Romans 8:21]
"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." [Romans 9:8]
"And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." [Romans 9:26]
[Paul just cited the OT of Hosea 1:10 [Tr. Heb.] w'häyäh miš'Par B'nëy-yis'räël K'chôl haYäm ásher lo-yiMad w'lo yiŠäfër w'häyäh Bim'qôm ásher-yëämër lähem lo-aMiy aTem yëämër lähem B'nëy ël-chäy - http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/hosea/1.html#10 ]
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." [Galatians 3:26]
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." [Galatians 4:6]
"Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." [Galatians 4:7]
"And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." [2 Corinthians 6:18]
"Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;" [Ephesians 5:1]
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" [Philippians 2:15]
"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" [Hebrews 12:7]
"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." [1 John 1:3]
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." [1 John 3:1]
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." [1 John 3:2]
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." [1 John 5:2]
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" [Hebrews 12:9]
"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," [1 Peter 1:3]
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown." [Genesis 6:4]
"Ye [are] the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead." [Deuteronomy 14:1]
"Doubtless thou [art] our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, [art] our father, our redeemer; thy name [is] from everlasting." [Isaiah 63:16]
"But now, O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand." [Isaiah 64:8]
"I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:" [2 Samuel 7:14] [Notice the two groups again, those of God's children, and those of the children of men]
"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God." [Hosea 1:10]
"Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." [Matthew 5:9]
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." [Matthew 6:9]
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." [Matthew 5:45]
"Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God." [Luke 3:38]
"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil." [Luke 6:35]
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." [Luke 6:36]
"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." [Luke 11:2]
"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." [Luke 20:26]
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" [John 1:12]
"And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad." [John 11:52]
"While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them." [John 12:36]
"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Romans 1:7]
"Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." [1 Corinthians 1:3]
"Grace [be] to you and peace from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." [2 Corinthians 1:2]
"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" [Galatians 1:4]
"Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." [Philippians 1:2]
"Now unto God and our Father [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen." [Philippians 4:20]
"To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Colossians 1:2]
"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." [1 Thessalonians 1:1]
"Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." [1 Thessalonians 3:11]
"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." [1 Thessalonians 3:13]
"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:" [2 Thessalonians 1:1]
"Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [2 Thessalonians 1:2]
"Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace," [2 Thessalonians 2:16]
"To Titus, [mine] own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour." [Titus 1:4]
"Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Philemon 1:3]
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." [Romans 8:14]
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" [Romans 8:16]
"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together." [Romans 8:17]
"For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God." [Romans 8:19]
"Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." [Romans 8:21]
"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." [Romans 9:8]
"And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." [Romans 9:26]
[Paul just cited the OT of Hosea 1:10 [Tr. Heb.] w'häyäh miš'Par B'nëy-yis'räël K'chôl haYäm ásher lo-yiMad w'lo yiŠäfër w'häyäh Bim'qôm ásher-yëämër lähem lo-aMiy aTem yëämër lähem B'nëy ël-chäy - http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/hosea/1.html#10 ]
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." [Galatians 3:26]
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." [Galatians 4:6]
"Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." [Galatians 4:7]
"And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." [2 Corinthians 6:18]
"Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;" [Ephesians 5:1]
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" [Philippians 2:15]
"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" [Hebrews 12:7]
"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." [1 John 1:3]
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." [1 John 3:1]
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." [1 John 3:2]
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." [1 John 5:2]
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" [Hebrews 12:9]
"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," [1 Peter 1:3]
Other:
Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. - Isaiah 8:18
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6
For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. - Hebrews 2:10
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. - Hebrews 2:13
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6
For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. - Hebrews 2:10
And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. - Hebrews 2:13
Let us see the reverse, and come back to the Job passages.
vooks
Active Member
You are wasting time by dithering.
Sons of God in NT are BORN AGAIN.
If the phrase Sons of God means godly seed, why should we not apply the same in Job?
One Baptism
Active Member
The reverse and contrast:
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." [Genesis 3:15]
"The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];" [Matthew 13:38]
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." [John 8:42]
"And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?" [Acts 13:10]
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." [1 John 3:8]
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." [1 John 3:10]
"Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous." [1 John 3:12]
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." [1 John 4:4]
"They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them." [1 John 4:5]
"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." [1 John 4:6]
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." [1 John 4:7]
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." [1 John 4:8]
"The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];" [Matthew 13:38]
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me." [John 8:42]
"And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?" [Acts 13:10]
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." [1 John 3:8]
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." [1 John 3:10]
"Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous." [1 John 3:12]
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." [1 John 4:4]
"They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them." [1 John 4:5]
"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." [1 John 4:6]
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." [1 John 4:7]
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." [1 John 4:8]
Jesus does make specific mention of the contrast [of the two; God or Satan] as to who one was subservient to:
"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." [John 8:44]
As does Paul:
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" [Romans 6:16]
"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." [Romans 9:8]
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" [Ephesians 2:2]
"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." [Ephesians 5:6]
"For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:" [Colossians 3:6]
"But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." [Hebrews 12:8]
"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." [Romans 9:8]
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" [Ephesians 2:2]
"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience." [Ephesians 5:6]
"For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:" [Colossians 3:6]
"But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." [Hebrews 12:8]
As does Peter:
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" [1 Peter 3:19]
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." [1 Peter 3:20]
["spirits in prison" see: Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6-7, 61:1; Luke 4:18]
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." [1 Peter 3:20]
One Baptism
Active Member
But, even with all of the comparisons and many texts on the "Sons of God", etc, which speak about man-kind and not to the angelic host, let us not forget that in Genesis 6, it specifically speaks about they who "took them wives of all which they chose" [Genesis 6:2] as this point is very important when considered amongst the passages in the New Testament which speak about what was going on just prior to the Flood.
Jesus takes time to directly mention several things being done in excess and corrupting His way, one of which was "marrying and giving in marriage":
"But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." [Matthew 24:37]
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark," [Matthew 24:38]
"And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." [Luke 17:26]
"They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." [Luke 17:27]
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark," [Matthew 24:38]
"And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man." [Luke 17:26]
"They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." [Luke 17:27]
Peter also briefly mentions the subject:
"And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;" [2 Peter 2:5]
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts," [2 Peter 3:3]
"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" [2 Peter 3:6]
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts," [2 Peter 3:3]
"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" [2 Peter 3:6]
As does Job:
Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? - Job 21:7
Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. - Job 21:14
Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? - Job 22:15
Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood: - Job 22:16
Which said unto God, Depart from us: and what can the Almighty do for them? - Job 22:17
Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. - Job 21:14
Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? - Job 22:15
Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood: - Job 22:16
Which said unto God, Depart from us: and what can the Almighty do for them? - Job 22:17
Notice also in Genesis 6:2, the "they chose", of themselves, not God choosing for them a mate. We see the results of such in Samson.
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vooks
Active Member
Nonsense.
Marriage was ordained by God and the fact that before the flood men were marrying does not mean they were sinning; it only means they lived on INDIFFERENT to the imminent judgement. In Gen 6, it is not taking wives that was sin, it was angels marrying women. If marriage is sin, then you should not marry:laugh:
One Baptism
Active Member
As an interim, let us have a look at the "giants", all of which only ever deal with "men" [mankind]:
Let us next consider the term "giants" [Heb. Tr.: "Nephilim"] in Genesis 6.
If such were truly 'devil [fallen angel]-human-hybrids', as some incorrectly speculate, which according to Genesis, Job, Jesus, Peter, etc were completely destroyed in the Flood, then why are these "giants" yet found alive again after the world-wide flood? Well in imaginary scenario, not found in Scripture, they must add another event like what they imaged in Genesis 6 to have occurred again, and all the while such do not realize how much is being added to cover the deception of the devil.
For the Flood was indeed entirely global and covering all the whole earth, even rising above the "then" mountains [Genesis 7:20] and all "flesh wherein the breath of life", "every living substance" was "destroyed" and "perished" for "Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark." [Genesis 7:23].
The term "giants" is translated from the Hebrew word "nĕphiyl" "נָפִיל" which means "giants, attack, fall away, rebels, apostates" and comes from the Hebrew root word "naphal" "נָפַל" which means "to fall, lie down, lay prostrate, cast down, fall away to, go away to, desert, attack, knock out, overthrow, cause to drop" [Strong's Concordance] and also to "supplant, become ruined, to encamp" [Gesenius's Lexicon]. Yet, let us see how the word defined it.
There were "giants" in those days before the flood and even after the flood, and in each instance the words used in description are always referring to the race of man-kind, and never in reference to the angelic hosts in all instances:
"And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings that [were] with him, and smote the Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emims in Shaveh Kiriathaim," [Genesis 14:5]
"And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, [is] a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it [are] men of a great stature." [Numbers 13:32]
"And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, [being] the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants." [Deuteronomy 3:13]
"And the coast of Og king of Bashan, [which was] of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei," [Joshua 12:4]
"All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out." [Joshua 13:12]
"And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same [is] Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that [lieth] before the valley of Hinnom westward, which [is] at the end of the valley of the giants northward:" [Joshua 15:8]
"And Joshua answered them, If thou [be] a great people, [then] get thee up to the wood [country], and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee." [Joshua 17:15]
"And the border came down to the end of the mountain that [lieth] before the valley of the son of Hinnom, [and] which [is] in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel," [Joshua 18:16]
"And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, [is] a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it [are] men of a great stature." [Numbers 13:32]
"And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, [being] the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants." [Deuteronomy 3:13]
"And the coast of Og king of Bashan, [which was] of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei," [Joshua 12:4]
"All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out." [Joshua 13:12]
"And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same [is] Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that [lieth] before the valley of Hinnom westward, which [is] at the end of the valley of the giants northward:" [Joshua 15:8]
"And Joshua answered them, If thou [be] a great people, [then] get thee up to the wood [country], and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee." [Joshua 17:15]
"And the border came down to the end of the mountain that [lieth] before the valley of the son of Hinnom, [and] which [is] in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel," [Joshua 18:16]
"Nimrod" ["a mighty one"]:
"And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth." [Genesis 10:8]
"He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD." [Genesis 10:9]
"He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD." [Genesis 10:9]
["before", means to stand over against, in front of, or opposite to [even opposed]]
"Rephaims" ["giants" like Goliath or Og the King of Bashan]:
"And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims," [Genesis 15:20]
"For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man." [Deuteronomy 3:11]
"The Philistines also came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim." [2 Samuel 5:18]
"And the Philistines came up yet again, and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim." [2 Samuel 5:22]
"And the Philistines came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim." [1 Chronicles 14:9]
"And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim." [Isaiah 17:5]
"For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man." [Deuteronomy 3:11]
"The Philistines also came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim." [2 Samuel 5:18]
"And the Philistines came up yet again, and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim." [2 Samuel 5:22]
"And the Philistines came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim." [1 Chronicles 14:9]
"And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim." [Isaiah 17:5]
"Anakims" ["sons of Anak"]:
"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, [which come] of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." [Numbers 13:33]
"A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and [of whom] thou hast heard [say], Who can stand before the children of Anak!" [Deuteronomy 9:2]
"A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and [of whom] thou hast heard [say], Who can stand before the children of Anak!" [Deuteronomy 9:2]
...to be continued...
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One Baptism
Active Member
More on "Anak" and where He came from:
“Anak”, and descendants, and ancestors:
“Anak” is found in the following verses:
Numbers 13:22,28,33
Deuteronomy 9:2
Joshua 15:13,14, 21:11
Judges 1:20
Deuteronomy 9:2
Joshua 15:13,14, 21:11
Judges 1:20
The “Children of Anak” are found:
Ahiman; Numbers 13:22
Sheshai; Numbers 13:22
Talmai; Numbers 13:22
Sheshai; Numbers 13:22
Talmai; Numbers 13:22
The “Father of Anak”, named “Arba” is found in the following verses:
Joshua 14:15, 15:13, 21:11
“Arba” was the ruler of “Kirjath-Arba” [“City of Arba”, aka “Hebron”], found in the following verses:
kirjatharba, 6 times
Genesis 23:2 (2 times); Joshua 14:15, 15:54, 20:7; Judges 1:10; Nehemiah 11:25
City of Arba[h], 3 times
Genesis 35:27, Joshua 15:13, 21:11
The “City of Arbah” [“Hebron”], lies in the “plain of Mamre”:
Genesis 13:18, 14:13,24, 18:1,23:17,19, 25:9, 35:27, 49:30, 50:13
“The plain of Mamre” was in the “Land of Canaan”:
Genesis 49:30
“Mamre”, was an “Amorite”:
Genesis 14:13
The “Amorites” were descendants/children of “Canaan”:
Genesis 10:15,16
“Canaan” was a son of “Ham”:
Genesis 10:6
“Ham” was a son of “Noah” [“Noe”]:
Genesis 5:32
“Noah” [“Noe”] was a son of “Lamech”:
Genesis 5:29,30; Luke 3:36
“Lamech” was a son of “Methuselah” [“Mathusala”]:
Genesis 5:25; Luke 3:37
“Methuselah” [“Mathusala”] was a son of “Enoch”:
Genesis 5:21; Luke 3:37
“Enoch” was a son of “Jared”:
Genesis 5:18; Luke 3:37
“Jared” was a son of “Mahalaleel” [“Maleleel”]:
Genesis 5:16,17; Luke 3:17
“Mahalaleel” [“Maleleel”] was a son of “Cainan”:
Genesis 5:12,13; Luke 3:17
“Cainan” was a son of “Enos”:
Genesis 5:9,10; Luke 3:18
“Enos” was a son of “Seth”:
Genesis 4:26, 5:6,7; Luke 3:38
“Seth” was a son of “Adam” and his wife, “Eve” [Genesis 2:23; “the mother of all living” [Genesis 3:20]]:
Genesis 4:25; Luke 3:38
“Adam” [“the first man” 1 Corinthians 15:45] was the “son of God”:
Genesis 1 & 2; Luke 3:38
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; Acts 17:26
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Genesis 5:1
Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. Genesis 10:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Genesis 5:1
Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. Genesis 10:1
Therefore, since Anak, was the child of Arba, and Arba founded the city of Arba[h], and the City of Arba [KirjathArba, Hebron] was in the plain of Mamre, and Mamre was an Amorite, which was in the land of Canaan, which were named for the persons which settled there, being the son of Ham, the son of Noah [Noe] … which was the son of Adam, the first man, and Eve, who was the mother of all living, we can see that “Anak”, was therefore an Amorite descendant of Canaan, etc.
The Bible lists many people that suddenly appear without apparent ancestor genealogy, and some without descendant genealogy, like Melchisedec [Melchizedek] but that does not indicate that the Scriptures are saying that there were other races of men around, other than descendants of Adam [of whom all races of men are of “one blood”]/Eve [“the mother of all living”] and/or Noah [since the flood only left the 8 [“Noah only remained alive” Genesis 7:23, the “eight” persons left alive; 1 Peter 3:20]].
It simply indicates that their ancestry is already indicated through the lineages primarily given in Genesis 5 and 10 and before unto Creation in Genesis 1 & 2.
When we compare Scripture with Scripture, line upon line [Isaiah 28] we can also consider the locations/lands in which they lived, what cities, etc surround those names, in their context to obtain a clearer picture.
"Emims":
"Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims." [Deuteronomy 2:11]
"Zamzummims":
"(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;" [Deuteronomy 2:20]
"A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:" [Deuteronomy 2:21]
"A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:" [Deuteronomy 2:21]
Others, "children of the giant", "sons of the giant":
"And he slew an Egyptian, a man of [great] stature, five cubits high; and in the Egyptian's hand [was] a spear like a weaver's beam; and he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian's hand, and slew him with his own spear." [1 Chronicles 11:23]
"And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, [that was] of the children of the giant: and they were subdued." [1 Chronicles 20:4]
"And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff [was] like a weaver's beam." [1 Chronicles 20:5]
"And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, whose fingers and toes [were] four and twenty, six [on each hand], and six [on each foot]: and he also was the son of the giant." [1 Chronicles 20:6]
"And Ishbibenob, which [was] of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear [weighed] three hundred [shekels] of brass in weight, he being girded with a new [sword], thought to have slain David." [2 Samuel 21:16]
"And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which [was] of the sons of the giant." [2 Samuel 21:18]
"And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew [the brother of] Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear [was] like a weaver's beam." [1 Samuel 21:19]
"And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant." [2 Samuel 21:20]
"These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants." [2 Samuel 21:22]
"Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, [saying], Surely God [is] in thee; and [there is] none else, [there is] no God." [Isaiah 45:14]
"And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, [that was] of the children of the giant: and they were subdued." [1 Chronicles 20:4]
"And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff [was] like a weaver's beam." [1 Chronicles 20:5]
"And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, whose fingers and toes [were] four and twenty, six [on each hand], and six [on each foot]: and he also was the son of the giant." [1 Chronicles 20:6]
"And Ishbibenob, which [was] of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear [weighed] three hundred [shekels] of brass in weight, he being girded with a new [sword], thought to have slain David." [2 Samuel 21:16]
"And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which [was] of the sons of the giant." [2 Samuel 21:18]
"And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew [the brother of] Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear [was] like a weaver's beam." [1 Samuel 21:19]
"And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of [great] stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant." [2 Samuel 21:20]
"These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants." [2 Samuel 21:22]
"Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, [saying], Surely God [is] in thee; and [there is] none else, [there is] no God." [Isaiah 45:14]
There are two ways, the Ways of God, or the way of wickedness.
Another piece of the text to consider in the context of Genesis 6:4 are the words "men of renown":
English: "reknown" = Hebrew: "shem" "שֵׁם" [meaning: name, reputation, fame, glory, memorial, monument, stigma [a mark with which anyone is marked], notable, famous or infamous] [Strong's Concordance]
Compare to those in the camp of Moses, where the exact same words are used:
"And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:" [Numbers 16:2]
...or compare these passages which also deal with mankind alone:
"These [were] the renowned of the congregation, princes of the tribes of their fathers, heads of thousands in Israel." [Numbers 1:16]
"And the sons of Eliab; Nemuel, and Dathan, and Abiram. This [is that] Dathan and Abiram, [which were] famous in the congregation, who strove against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they strove against the LORD:" [Numbers 26:9]
"And these [were] the heads of the house of their fathers, even Epher, and Ishi, and Eliel, and Azriel, and Jeremiah, and Hodaviah, and Jahdiel, mighty men of valour, famous men, [and] heads of the house of their fathers." [1 Chronicles 5:24]
"And of the children of Ephraim twenty thousand and eight hundred, mighty men of valour, famous throughout the house of their fathers." [1 Chronicles 12:30]
"And the sons of Eliab; Nemuel, and Dathan, and Abiram. This [is that] Dathan and Abiram, [which were] famous in the congregation, who strove against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they strove against the LORD:" [Numbers 26:9]
"And these [were] the heads of the house of their fathers, even Epher, and Ishi, and Eliel, and Azriel, and Jeremiah, and Hodaviah, and Jahdiel, mighty men of valour, famous men, [and] heads of the house of their fathers." [1 Chronicles 5:24]
"And of the children of Ephraim twenty thousand and eight hundred, mighty men of valour, famous throughout the house of their fathers." [1 Chronicles 12:30]
...or compare to those who allow God to make them a great name, to those who make a great name for themselves:
[God makes the name great]
"And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:" [Genesis 12:2]
[Man makes the name great]
"And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." [Genesis 11:4]
vooks
Active Member
As usual, a nonsensical mishmash of verses and little if zero point made
There were no Nephilim elsewhere apart from preFlood. Who told you there were Nephilim AFTER the flood?
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One Baptism
Active Member
Please read more prayerfully and closely brother. See Numbers 13:33. Same word.
vooks
Active Member
There were no Nephilim my brother. Learn the context. Pray all you will and then come and show me Nephilim from this verse
Numbers 13:33 (KJV)
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Where are the Nephilim here?
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One Baptism
Active Member
Looking at Job, passages, let's consider a few more things, such as the other unfallen worlds that God made [however long ago, Scripture does not say] before the creation of this earth and the unique creation of mankind on it.
In understanding this, we shall understand who the "sons of God" in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7 are, where they live, and how that designation relates to Adam, "[the son] of God" [Luke 3:38] of this world.
In the Book of Hebrews, written by Paul the Apostle, we see that he makes mention of these other “worlds” [αιωναςG165 N-APM] that exist in the “heavens” [ουρανοιG3772 N-NPM], and even the “so great a cloud of witnesses” [μαρτυρωνG3144 N-GPM] which consider the events transpiring on earth [each Greek word is in the plural].
In 1 Corinthians these “witnesses” are those which watch us, and so we, on this earth, are a “spectacle” unto them.
In the Book of Daniel we see even a “watcher and an holy one” come down from “heaven”, and further still many more are mentioned, as they give a judgment, “This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones”.
In Colossians, Paul speaks about “all things created, that are in heaven...visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers...”.
In the Book of Job, we see passages which clearly reveal other beings, not of this world, but of another, for here it is given of the “sons of God” which “came to present themselves before the LORD”, and “Satan came also among them”.
Now this was no earthly meeting of men, for God even asks [not that God does not know, but here was a point to be made in the Great Controversy that was ongoing] of Satan, “Whence comest thou?” and Satan directly answers in his boastful replies in two places, “From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”, and so that we may further know it was no earthly meeting, this meeting took place “before the LORD”, whom we know is in Heaven, and all these "sons of God", the leaders of the other worlds, had come ["came to present themselves before"] from their "habitations" [Luke 16:9].
Satan, then after coming to this meeting [since he was claiming to be representative of this earth, since he has claimed dominion of it ever since Adam and Eve fell unto him, therefore the “god of this world” [2 Corinthians 4:4] and even the “prince [ruler] of this world” [John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11]], then went out back to earth as he “went forth from the presence of the LORD”.
Additionally, we see further in the Book of Job, that these particular “sons of God” existed before this Earth [World] was created, for when God created it [Genesis 1 and 2] and "laid the foundation", we see that “the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy”:
First we see the meeting that took place in Heaven, after the Flood, and the "sons of God" are loyal, in contrast to "Satan":
As time passed in Job's life, another meeting took place shortly after the first, which took place after the Flood, and again the "sons of God" are loyal, in contrast to "Satan":
In Job's later chapters we learn of another gathering of these "sons of God", whom are loyal, long before the days of Job and well before the Flood.
In understanding this, we shall understand who the "sons of God" in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7 are, where they live, and how that designation relates to Adam, "[the son] of God" [Luke 3:38] of this world.
In the Book of Hebrews, written by Paul the Apostle, we see that he makes mention of these other “worlds” [αιωναςG165 N-APM] that exist in the “heavens” [ουρανοιG3772 N-NPM], and even the “so great a cloud of witnesses” [μαρτυρωνG3144 N-GPM] which consider the events transpiring on earth [each Greek word is in the plural].
In 1 Corinthians these “witnesses” are those which watch us, and so we, on this earth, are a “spectacle” unto them.
In the Book of Daniel we see even a “watcher and an holy one” come down from “heaven”, and further still many more are mentioned, as they give a judgment, “This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones”.
In Colossians, Paul speaks about “all things created, that are in heaven...visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers...”.
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Hebrews 1:2
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Hebrews 1:10
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Hebrews 12:1
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 1 Corinthians 4:9
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Colossians 1:16
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; Daniel 4:13
This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will , and setteth up over it the basest of men. Daniel 4:17
And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and [let] his portion [be] with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him; Daniel 4:23
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Daniel 7:13
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me. Isaiah 6:8
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. Genesis 11:7
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Hebrews 1:10
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Hebrews 12:1
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 1 Corinthians 4:9
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Colossians 1:16
I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; Daniel 4:13
This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will , and setteth up over it the basest of men. Daniel 4:17
And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and [let] his portion [be] with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him; Daniel 4:23
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Daniel 7:13
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me. Isaiah 6:8
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. Genesis 11:7
In the Book of Job, we see passages which clearly reveal other beings, not of this world, but of another, for here it is given of the “sons of God” which “came to present themselves before the LORD”, and “Satan came also among them”.
Now this was no earthly meeting of men, for God even asks [not that God does not know, but here was a point to be made in the Great Controversy that was ongoing] of Satan, “Whence comest thou?” and Satan directly answers in his boastful replies in two places, “From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”, and so that we may further know it was no earthly meeting, this meeting took place “before the LORD”, whom we know is in Heaven, and all these "sons of God", the leaders of the other worlds, had come ["came to present themselves before"] from their "habitations" [Luke 16:9].
As a quick aside for a moment, why would Satan say such a thing to God?
It was because he was saying that he was 'Lord of the Earth', and that it was his domain, that he walked up and down the breadth and depth and height of it [just as God told Abraham to do in Canaan [“Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.” Genesis 13:17], and also to Moses, and Joshua and the Children of Israel in the promised land [“Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.” Joshua 1:3]...for it was promised to them, walk up and down the breadth of the land...], and all was his dominion, forfeited by Adam...yet God, pointed out that not all was his [Satan's] as he made claim, for there was a man named Job, a servant of the LORD, who was upright, that feared God and shunned evil...
It was because he was saying that he was 'Lord of the Earth', and that it was his domain, that he walked up and down the breadth and depth and height of it [just as God told Abraham to do in Canaan [“Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.” Genesis 13:17], and also to Moses, and Joshua and the Children of Israel in the promised land [“Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.” Joshua 1:3]...for it was promised to them, walk up and down the breadth of the land...], and all was his dominion, forfeited by Adam...yet God, pointed out that not all was his [Satan's] as he made claim, for there was a man named Job, a servant of the LORD, who was upright, that feared God and shunned evil...
Satan, then after coming to this meeting [since he was claiming to be representative of this earth, since he has claimed dominion of it ever since Adam and Eve fell unto him, therefore the “god of this world” [2 Corinthians 4:4] and even the “prince [ruler] of this world” [John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11]], then went out back to earth as he “went forth from the presence of the LORD”.
Additionally, we see further in the Book of Job, that these particular “sons of God” existed before this Earth [World] was created, for when God created it [Genesis 1 and 2] and "laid the foundation", we see that “the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy”:
First we see the meeting that took place in Heaven, after the Flood, and the "sons of God" are loyal, in contrast to "Satan":
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8
Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:9
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Job 1:10
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 1:11
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. Job 1:12
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:8
Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:9
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Job 1:10
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 1:11
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. Job 1:12
As time passed in Job's life, another meeting took place shortly after the first, which took place after the Flood, and again the "sons of God" are loyal, in contrast to "Satan":
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 2:1
And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 2:2
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. Job 2:4
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 2:5
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but save his life. Job 2:6
So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. Job 2:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 2:2
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. Job 2:4
But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 2:5
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but save his life. Job 2:6
So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown. Job 2:7
In Job's later chapters we learn of another gathering of these "sons of God", whom are loyal, long before the days of Job and well before the Flood.
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; Job 38:6
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7
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Further in Scripture, we see another mention of these types of Heavenly meetings, where a clear contrast to the loyal and the wicked one [Satan, the lying spirit] is seen:
This is given once more for a witness in 2 Chronicles 18:
Adam, as a "son of God", was crowned, wore robes of Light, and had the dominion of this world, and thus it was in his caretaking, as a "steward" for God:
Adam, was that type/figure of Jesus Christ [Romans 5:14]
So we see that once Adam and Eve fell [in Genesis 3; Romans 6:16], Satan had again some access to the Gates of Heaven again, as Adam had privilege to [for he now claimed dominion, even though God was still owner], even though after the “war” in “heaven” he had been “cast out” and was now “fall[en]”, and even Jesus says of that moment, “...I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” [Luke 10:18].
It was only at the Cross [wherein was “the power of his Christ”], that Satan was permanently “cast down” to this earth, and the “dragon” was now “come down unto” us from the gates in Heaven, knowing he had but a “short time” left, and so a “woe” is upon those of the “earth”.
Notice who then is to “rejoice” at this event and news, it is verily the holy unfallen beings, in the “heavens”, for it states even “ye that dwell in them”:
Heaven is a real tangible place where Jesus physically ascended to, with real tangible beings, real worlds, real tangible trees, rivers, even a city, mountain of God, Mt. Zion, etc, and there was at one point even “war” there between Michael [Jesus] and the Dragon [Lucifer/Satan], and they “fought”, but the danger is that many are 'spiritualizing' it away, into airy-non-things, which is a deception of satan to get us to cease from hoping in the real reward.
Jesus knows better [John 14:1-3], and clearly speaks the truth about him..:
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 1 Kings 22:19
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 1 Kings 22:20
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 1 Kings 22:21
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 1 Kings 22:22
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? 1 Kings 22:24
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 1 Kings 22:20
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 1 Kings 22:21
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 1 Kings 22:22
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? 1 Kings 22:24
This is given once more for a witness in 2 Chronicles 18:
Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and [on] his left. 2 Chronicles 18:18
And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. 2 Chronicles 18:19
Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? 2 Chronicles 18:20
And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And [the LORD] said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do [even] so. 2 Chronicles 18:21
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. 2 Chronicles 18:22
Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? 2 Chronicles 18:23
And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. 2 Chronicles 18:19
Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? 2 Chronicles 18:20
And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And [the LORD] said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do [even] so. 2 Chronicles 18:21
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. 2 Chronicles 18:22
Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? 2 Chronicles 18:23
Adam, as a "son of God", was crowned, wore robes of Light, and had the dominion of this world, and thus it was in his caretaking, as a "steward" for God:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. - Genesis 1:26
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. - Genesis 1:28
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? - Psalm 8:4
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. - Psalm 8:5
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet: - Psalm 8:6
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. - Genesis 1:28
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? - Psalm 8:4
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. - Psalm 8:5
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet: - Psalm 8:6
Adam, was that type/figure of Jesus Christ [Romans 5:14]
So we see that once Adam and Eve fell [in Genesis 3; Romans 6:16], Satan had again some access to the Gates of Heaven again, as Adam had privilege to [for he now claimed dominion, even though God was still owner], even though after the “war” in “heaven” he had been “cast out” and was now “fall[en]”, and even Jesus says of that moment, “...I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” [Luke 10:18].
It was only at the Cross [wherein was “the power of his Christ”], that Satan was permanently “cast down” to this earth, and the “dragon” was now “come down unto” us from the gates in Heaven, knowing he had but a “short time” left, and so a “woe” is upon those of the “earth”.
Notice who then is to “rejoice” at this event and news, it is verily the holy unfallen beings, in the “heavens”, for it states even “ye that dwell in them”:
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Revelation 12:10
Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Revelation 12:12
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:6
Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Revelation 12:12
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:6
Heaven is a real tangible place where Jesus physically ascended to, with real tangible beings, real worlds, real tangible trees, rivers, even a city, mountain of God, Mt. Zion, etc, and there was at one point even “war” there between Michael [Jesus] and the Dragon [Lucifer/Satan], and they “fought”, but the danger is that many are 'spiritualizing' it away, into airy-non-things, which is a deception of satan to get us to cease from hoping in the real reward.
In fact, the old saying that the devil seeks make men disbelieve in his own existences, is true, and this is but one aspect of it, for he first puts out the idea that he is less than tangible than he really is, a non-corporeal entity, a gaseous non-being, a formless essence, merely a figment of aether, and then he is half-way gone into fables, and people no longer take his existence seriously.
Jesus knows better [John 14:1-3], and clearly speaks the truth about him..:
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Revelation 12:7
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Satan, once known as “Lucifer” [aka, “heylel”], very “son of the morning”, the “anointed cherub that covereth” [“the Ark of His Testament”; Revelation 11:19, “the tabernacle”; Revelation 15:5] who was the highest created angel of all Heaven before “iniquity was found in” him and he “sinned” [see also John 8:44; Jude 1:6; 2 Peter 2:4].
He, even though still “beautiful”, though he may still appear “as an angel of light” [2 Corinthians 11:14], had once dwelt in the very presence of God, even in that Heavenly garden “Eden” and had “walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire”.
Satan is a real tangible being with "flesh"/"body" of "celestial" make, not a gaseous non-entity, not incorporeal, but a once-exalted and glorious being even once clothed with “every precious stone”, even “the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold” and his voice once beautiful in song, for it is written that “the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.” Satan, even in his own heart declared that he would “sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north” on the very mountain of God, Mt. Zion in Heaven, and “exalt” his “throne above the stars of God”, over every other creature of Heaven.
Heaven is as real as you or I, and if you could ascend, you could go up and knock on the eternal "gates" [Psalms 24], how do we know? A question and scripture:
“Since Jesus rose from the dead, was he raised in immortal flesh and bone and to where did He actually ascend to afterwards and what is He doing there now?”
Jesus was forever raised as an immortal man with “Flesh and Bones” [Luke 24:39] so that the disciples could “handle” Him and that He could “eat”.
Jesus, who spake of the raising of the “Temple of His Body” [John 2:21; Revelation 21:22], was Raised Bodily [John 2:19,21, 20:12; Luke 24:3,6,39,43, etc] unto Immortality as the type of the Uncorrupted Manna in the Wilderness foretold [Exodus 16:5,22-25], and in the Psalms, that He would “not see corruption” [Psalms 49:9; Acts 2:27,31, 13:35].
Most of modern Christianity and the world has greatly been led into the deception of satan on this very important subject and thus have allowed it to be “spiritualized” away [and the Messenger of the LORD warns against burning these truths up in the “fires of spiritualism”, for in so doing, God, His Throne and the very Tabernacle of Heaven, the Ark and Tables of God's Law of Heaven, along with Jesus High Priestly ministry vanish into nothing, and all hope is then lost].
The very Truth of the matter is being slowly forgotten and erased because many have and are even now allowing satan to interweave deception into theology ... and so they have allowed him to have phantomized it ... incorporealized it ... turned it into fables ... and thus stealing away the reality of the reward...
We shall eat from that Tree of Life and drink from that pure river of water of Life...
He, even though still “beautiful”, though he may still appear “as an angel of light” [2 Corinthians 11:14], had once dwelt in the very presence of God, even in that Heavenly garden “Eden” and had “walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire”.
Satan is a real tangible being with "flesh"/"body" of "celestial" make, not a gaseous non-entity, not incorporeal, but a once-exalted and glorious being even once clothed with “every precious stone”, even “the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold” and his voice once beautiful in song, for it is written that “the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.” Satan, even in his own heart declared that he would “sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north” on the very mountain of God, Mt. Zion in Heaven, and “exalt” his “throne above the stars of God”, over every other creature of Heaven.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isaiah 14:12
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isaiah 14:13
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:14
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:15
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Ezekiel 28:12
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13
Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:14
Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28:15
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:16
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Ezekiel 28:17
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. Ezekiel 28:18
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more. Ezekiel 28:19
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isaiah 14:13
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:14
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isaiah 14:15
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Ezekiel 28:12
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13
Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:14
Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28:15
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:16
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Ezekiel 28:17
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. Ezekiel 28:18
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more. Ezekiel 28:19
Heaven is as real as you or I, and if you could ascend, you could go up and knock on the eternal "gates" [Psalms 24], how do we know? A question and scripture:
“Since Jesus rose from the dead, was he raised in immortal flesh and bone and to where did He actually ascend to afterwards and what is He doing there now?”
Jesus was forever raised as an immortal man with “Flesh and Bones” [Luke 24:39] so that the disciples could “handle” Him and that He could “eat”.
Jesus, who spake of the raising of the “Temple of His Body” [John 2:21; Revelation 21:22], was Raised Bodily [John 2:19,21, 20:12; Luke 24:3,6,39,43, etc] unto Immortality as the type of the Uncorrupted Manna in the Wilderness foretold [Exodus 16:5,22-25], and in the Psalms, that He would “not see corruption” [Psalms 49:9; Acts 2:27,31, 13:35].
Most of modern Christianity and the world has greatly been led into the deception of satan on this very important subject and thus have allowed it to be “spiritualized” away [and the Messenger of the LORD warns against burning these truths up in the “fires of spiritualism”, for in so doing, God, His Throne and the very Tabernacle of Heaven, the Ark and Tables of God's Law of Heaven, along with Jesus High Priestly ministry vanish into nothing, and all hope is then lost].
The very Truth of the matter is being slowly forgotten and erased because many have and are even now allowing satan to interweave deception into theology ... and so they have allowed him to have phantomized it ... incorporealized it ... turned it into fables ... and thus stealing away the reality of the reward...
We shall eat from that Tree of Life and drink from that pure river of water of Life...
One Baptism
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The Elders, Angels and other Sons of God are not “incorporeal” phantoms and Satan is a very, very real and tangible being, but that means so is Heaven very real and tangible!
Jesus, Himself said, “In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” [John 14:2]
Did not Jesus “ascend”? Where did He go to? A very real place...
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.” [John 14:3]
Do you believe Him? Have faith in what He says and in His Words, and cease from holding onto the lies that satan would have you to keep. Lies that seek to cut out from under us the very pillars of salvation, and also to steal away our very real reward, our very real “crown of life”!
Where is the “Tree of Life”?
It is in Heaven [Revelation 2:7, 22:2,14, etc]
What is upon it?
“Fruit” and “Leaves”. [Revelation 22:2]
Where is the “Pure River of Water of Life”?
It too is in Heaven. [Revelation 22:1]
There is even the “Temple of God”, that “True Tabernacle which the LORD pitched and not man” [Hebrews 8:2] and the “Ark of His Testament” in Heaven. [Revelation 11:19]
The Angels minister there and JESUS CHRIST, “our great High Priest”, minsters there in the Most Holy before the FATHER...
Heaven [“third heaven” [2 Corinthians 12:2]] is a real place, as real as Mt. Horeb/Sinai on earth.
Scripture also speaks of the “Four And Twenty Elders” that surround the very “Throne” of God, and these being given a special distinction, and serve in God's Heavenly Temple [see Ezekiel 8:16, 24 + 1] and set apart from all else from either the 'living creatures' [beasts], the 'angels' [angelic hosts] and 'redeemed' [saints, mankind of the earth], especially see Revelation 7 for clear delineations:
Scripture also speaks of the “four beasts” ['four living creatures'] that also surround the “Throne” of God, Revelation 4:6,7,8,9, 5:6,8,11,14, 6:1,3,5,6,7, 7:11, 14:3, 15:7, 19:4, and speaks of these distinctively from even the others.
"Cherub": Exodus 25:19, 37:8; 2 Samuel 22:11; 1 Kings 6:24,25,26,27; 2 Chronicles 3:11,12; Ezra 2:59; Nehemiah 7:61; Psalms 18:10; Ezra 9:3, 10:2,4,7,9, 28:14,16, 41:18.
"Cherubims": Genesis 3:24; Exodus 25:18,19,20,22, 26:1,31, 36:8,35, 37:7,8,9; Numbers 7:89; 1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 6:2; 1 Kings 6:23,25,27,28,29,32,35, 7:29,36, 8:6,7; 2 Kings 19:15; 1 Chronicles 13:6, 28:18; 2 Chronicles 3:7,10,11,13,14, 5:7,8; Psalms 80:1, 99:1; Isaiah 37:16; Ezekiel 10:1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,15,16,18,19,20, 11:22, 41:18,20,25; Hebrews 9:5.
"Seraphims": Isaiah 6:2,6.
"Living Creatures": Ezekiel 1:5,13,14,15,19, 3:13, see also these in “Ezekiel 10:1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,15,16,18,19,20, 11:22”; see also "four beasts": Revelation 4:6,8, 5:6,8,11,14, 6:1,6, 7:11, 14:3, 15:7, 19:4.
"Four and Twenty Elders": Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16, 14:3, 19:4; see also “ancients”: Isaiah 24:23
Revelation 5:3,4 speaks that “no man” [literally 'and no one', “καιG2532 CONJ ουδειςG3762 A-NSM-N” and literally 'no one was found' οτιG3754 CONJ ουδειςG3762 A-NSM-N αξιοςG514 A-NSM ευρεθηG2147 V-API-3S] in “Heaven” [neither anywhere in all creation]was able to open the Sealed Scroll/Book, except Christ Jesus, and so again we see others in Heaven:
Revelation 5:13 speaks about “every creature which is in heaven”, even “all that are in” it, again revealing there are other created beings in Heaven:
Revelation 19:14 speaks of the very “armies of Heaven” [see also vs 19 “his army”] and God is called in several places “the LORD [God] of Hosts [Sabaoth]”:
Revelation 19:5,6 speaks about “all ye his servants” and “...the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of many thunderings, saying, Alleluia...”
Jesus even speaks of the “far country” [see Isaiah 13:5, "They come from a far country, from the end of heaven...":
Jesus, Himself said, “In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” [John 14:2]
Did not Jesus “ascend”? Where did He go to? A very real place...
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.” [John 14:3]
Do you believe Him? Have faith in what He says and in His Words, and cease from holding onto the lies that satan would have you to keep. Lies that seek to cut out from under us the very pillars of salvation, and also to steal away our very real reward, our very real “crown of life”!
Where is the “Tree of Life”?
It is in Heaven [Revelation 2:7, 22:2,14, etc]
What is upon it?
“Fruit” and “Leaves”. [Revelation 22:2]
Where is the “Pure River of Water of Life”?
It too is in Heaven. [Revelation 22:1]
There is even the “Temple of God”, that “True Tabernacle which the LORD pitched and not man” [Hebrews 8:2] and the “Ark of His Testament” in Heaven. [Revelation 11:19]
The Angels minister there and JESUS CHRIST, “our great High Priest”, minsters there in the Most Holy before the FATHER...
Heaven [“third heaven” [2 Corinthians 12:2]] is a real place, as real as Mt. Horeb/Sinai on earth.
Scripture also speaks of the “Four And Twenty Elders” that surround the very “Throne” of God, and these being given a special distinction, and serve in God's Heavenly Temple [see Ezekiel 8:16, 24 + 1] and set apart from all else from either the 'living creatures' [beasts], the 'angels' [angelic hosts] and 'redeemed' [saints, mankind of the earth], especially see Revelation 7 for clear delineations:
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. Isaiah 24:23
And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Revelation 4:4
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Revelation 4:10
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. Revelation 5:5
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Revelation 5:6
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. Revelation 5:8
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Revelation 5:11
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 5:14
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Revelation 7:11
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Revelation 7:13
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Revelation 11:16
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:3
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. Revelation 19:4
And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Revelation 4:4
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Revelation 4:10
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. Revelation 5:5
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Revelation 5:6
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. Revelation 5:8
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Revelation 5:11
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Revelation 5:14
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Revelation 7:11
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Revelation 7:13
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Revelation 11:16
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:3
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. Revelation 19:4
Scripture also speaks of the “four beasts” ['four living creatures'] that also surround the “Throne” of God, Revelation 4:6,7,8,9, 5:6,8,11,14, 6:1,3,5,6,7, 7:11, 14:3, 15:7, 19:4, and speaks of these distinctively from even the others.
"Cherub": Exodus 25:19, 37:8; 2 Samuel 22:11; 1 Kings 6:24,25,26,27; 2 Chronicles 3:11,12; Ezra 2:59; Nehemiah 7:61; Psalms 18:10; Ezra 9:3, 10:2,4,7,9, 28:14,16, 41:18.
"Cherubims": Genesis 3:24; Exodus 25:18,19,20,22, 26:1,31, 36:8,35, 37:7,8,9; Numbers 7:89; 1 Samuel 4:4; 2 Samuel 6:2; 1 Kings 6:23,25,27,28,29,32,35, 7:29,36, 8:6,7; 2 Kings 19:15; 1 Chronicles 13:6, 28:18; 2 Chronicles 3:7,10,11,13,14, 5:7,8; Psalms 80:1, 99:1; Isaiah 37:16; Ezekiel 10:1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,15,16,18,19,20, 11:22, 41:18,20,25; Hebrews 9:5.
"Seraphims": Isaiah 6:2,6.
"Living Creatures": Ezekiel 1:5,13,14,15,19, 3:13, see also these in “Ezekiel 10:1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,15,16,18,19,20, 11:22”; see also "four beasts": Revelation 4:6,8, 5:6,8,11,14, 6:1,6, 7:11, 14:3, 15:7, 19:4.
"Four and Twenty Elders": Revelation 4:4,10, 5:5,6,8,11,14, 7:11,13, 11:16, 14:3, 19:4; see also “ancients”: Isaiah 24:23
Revelation 5:3,4 speaks that “no man” [literally 'and no one', “καιG2532 CONJ ουδειςG3762 A-NSM-N” and literally 'no one was found' οτιG3754 CONJ ουδειςG3762 A-NSM-N αξιοςG514 A-NSM ευρεθηG2147 V-API-3S] in “Heaven” [neither anywhere in all creation]was able to open the Sealed Scroll/Book, except Christ Jesus, and so again we see others in Heaven:
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:3
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:4
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. Revelation 5:4
Revelation 5:13 speaks about “every creature which is in heaven”, even “all that are in” it, again revealing there are other created beings in Heaven:
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Revelation 5:13
Revelation 19:14 speaks of the very “armies of Heaven” [see also vs 19 “his army”] and God is called in several places “the LORD [God] of Hosts [Sabaoth]”:
And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Revelation 19:4
And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. Romans 9:29
Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. James 5:4
And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. Romans 9:29
Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. James 5:4
Revelation 19:5,6 speaks about “all ye his servants” and “...the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of many thunderings, saying, Alleluia...”
Jesus even speaks of the “far country” [see Isaiah 13:5, "They come from a far country, from the end of heaven...":
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: Matthew 21:33
For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. Matthew 25:14
And he began to speak unto them by parables. A [certain] man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about [it], and digged [a place for] the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. Mark 12:1
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. Luke 19:12
Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. Luke 20:9
For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. Matthew 25:14
And he began to speak unto them by parables. A [certain] man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about [it], and digged [a place for] the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. Mark 12:1
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. Luke 19:12
Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. Luke 20:9
One Baptism
Active Member
Paul speaks of that we ought to set our hearts on “things above”:
Let us consider in Chiastic order, Hebrews 1, the word in the Greek is plural ["αιωναςG165 N-APM"], not singular.
We are the 'aliens' [foreign ones, nomads, wanderers, "strangers and pilgrims on the earth"] out of all the unfallen worlds, for we are the only fallen ones, satan has reversed the thought, and many simply buy into it.
The unfallen worlds are the natural, we the unnatural.
We are that one lost world, whom Christ left the '99' in Heaven to come and save, that he might come from that "far country" and deliver us, and "return home" with us, that we may once again have a "place" among those "many mansions".
Continuing on the "witnesses", please read again, about the "good report" [Hebrews 11:2,39] and "obtained witness" [Hebrews 11:4], but from whom and how? Notice that in Hebrews 12:1 it uses the word "also" the "we" that Paul speaks of.
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses ..."
That means that even Abel was compassed about with so "great a cloud of witnesses". Then begs the question, who are these "witnesses", that they "obtained witness" and "a good report" of? See the very context, God and the unfallen beings of those unfallen worlds:
... even as they [elders, ancients, patriarchs] had by Faith.
Therefore, we see that the contexts of Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, is not in the context of the Flood at all, two passages being after the Flood, and the latter passage being way before it at the Creation of the earth.
Only these passages deal with the Flood, and they do not speak of angelic beings, but "wicked men":
As it was in the days of Noah, so also now, in the days of the coming of the Son of Man...
...nothing new under the sun, but we are not finished, yet, for we need to look deeper still.
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Colossians 3:1
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Colossians 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Colossians 3:2
Let us consider in Chiastic order, Hebrews 1, the word in the Greek is plural ["αιωναςG165 N-APM"], not singular.
Hebrews 1:3 KJB - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
We are the 'aliens' [foreign ones, nomads, wanderers, "strangers and pilgrims on the earth"] out of all the unfallen worlds, for we are the only fallen ones, satan has reversed the thought, and many simply buy into it.
The unfallen worlds are the natural, we the unnatural.
We are that one lost world, whom Christ left the '99' in Heaven to come and save, that he might come from that "far country" and deliver us, and "return home" with us, that we may once again have a "place" among those "many mansions".
Matthew 18:11 - For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matthew 18:12 - How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
Matthew 18:13 - And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
Luke 15:4 - What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luke 15:5 - And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luke 15:6 - And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luke 15:7 - I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 - In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
John 14:4 - And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Matthew 18:12 - How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
Matthew 18:13 - And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
Luke 15:4 - What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luke 15:5 - And when he hath found [it], he layeth [it] on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luke 15:6 - And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
Luke 15:7 - I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
John 14:1 - Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 - In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
John 14:4 - And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Continuing on the "witnesses", please read again, about the "good report" [Hebrews 11:2,39] and "obtained witness" [Hebrews 11:4], but from whom and how? Notice that in Hebrews 12:1 it uses the word "also" the "we" that Paul speaks of.
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses ..."
That means that even Abel was compassed about with so "great a cloud of witnesses". Then begs the question, who are these "witnesses", that they "obtained witness" and "a good report" of? See the very context, God and the unfallen beings of those unfallen worlds:
Hebrews 12:22 - But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels
... even as they [elders, ancients, patriarchs] had by Faith.
Therefore, we see that the contexts of Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, is not in the context of the Flood at all, two passages being after the Flood, and the latter passage being way before it at the Creation of the earth.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. - Job 1:6
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. - Job 2:1
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. - Job 38:4
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? - Job 38:5
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; - Job 38:6
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? - Job 38:7
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? - Job 38:5
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; - Job 38:6
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? - Job 38:7
Only these passages deal with the Flood, and they do not speak of angelic beings, but "wicked men":
Therefore, we can see in Genesis 6, and the context of Genesis 1-5, a splitting of two kinds of people, even as it is now, and some turning to the LORD while others turning away from. We see that he words "sons of God" are even in the context of those which fall away [remember nĕphiyl also means to fall away, or apostates, along with giant], choosing the lusts of the eyes, flesh and pride of life, choosing for themselves "wives" in "marrying and giving in marriage" corrupting the ways of God, and so on, as "men began to multiply" and men's hearts thinking only evil continually.
As it was in the days of Noah, so also now, in the days of the coming of the Son of Man...
...nothing new under the sun, but we are not finished, yet, for we need to look deeper still.
vooks
Active Member
Garbage
The fact is sons of God in Job are not men. But you are forcing sons of God in Genesis to be men without any reason or sense, pure arbitrary.
vooks
Active Member
Daughters were born to men. Nephilim born to daughters of men and sons of God. What were the sons born to?
Calypsis4
Member
No, it is not.
Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh,
'strange' Greek ἄτοπος heteros = altered, different. So it is not homosexual flesh...it is flesh of a supernatural/spiritual nature.
Besides that, why would Jude mention fornication TWICE in the same verse? Answer: the first 'fornication' is that of men with men. The second fornication is that of men with evil spirits. I've seen such things before my very eyes more than once.
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