Southern Baptist leader: Donald Trump a ‘lost’ soul’ who must repent

[InTheLight]

Let's try this again . . .

So?

Did you (can you?) read the thread title?

"Donald Trump is a lost soul who must repent".

Since he says he's not asked God for forgiveness, which I put down as he's never repented, I would say that yes, he's a lost soul that needs to repent. Do you agree with this or not? It is the subject of this thread, after all.

 

[Benjamin]

You're one of the many on BB that have a visceral reaction to Zaac's posts. I was like that once, too. If you (and others) would bother to read what he says in entirety instead of immediately reacting to portions of what you read, you will see that he doesn't defend the Democrats or Republicans. He's an equal opportunity critic. I can relate to this because I'm somewhat the same. There is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle (though there is more on the Dems side) and whenever anyone, me included, point out the flaws on the right, we get attacked and labeled as being liberals.

Another thing that we both do, and it drives people here crazy, is we point out flaws in arguments used against the left. Benjamin, I would think you of all people, someone that understands logic and poor arguments would realize this. So when Zaac and I point out the garbage tactics that Faux News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, et al use to make their "arguments" we get roundly booed. There's no discussion if we bring up Slate, MSNBC, or Huffington Post's lazy reporting and smear tactics, they are well understood by people here. It seems that people on BB find it inconceivable that the right would use the same tactics. Well, they do.

ITL, I would gladly put all personal attacks aside and have a logically reasoned ethical debate Zaac about the following:

Zaac said: ↑
Again, no He doesn't and it's beyond disgusting the way some of you keep trying to justify murdering adults while pretending to express horror about the same government giving the okay to kill the unborn.

Do you even see what you're doing? You're saying that God values that unborn life more than HE does the born life.

The Bible doesn't mention abortion. It's a political issue. The only defense Christians have for being against it is that God said thou shall not murder. Yet it is obvious that you aren't pro-life at all.


He doesn't draw a distinction. If HE did, the thief on the Cross wouldn't be with Him today.
If HE did, HE would not have interfered with the crowd getting ready to stone the lady.

You're claiming a distinction that does not exist. And more and more it becomes more evident that the anti-abortion crowd isn't pro-life after all.

But, you know and I know the tactics he will resort to avoid reasoning for the truth. You may attempt to condone his actions on this board while he goes about spewing such ignorant garbage and calling it biblical but I will not. I merely mimicked his type of argument above and even wrote a disclaimer about its true value and you follow by coming to defend him (from the mockery of the very tactics he uses) and playing the martyr for you and him This should be your and the other readers here first clue of what I was addressing with that satire and why.

Again, I would love to have an ethical debate about Zaac's offensive and incredibly ignorant argumentative rant he gave above against anti-abortion but if you don't understand that he would never allow for an ethical reasoned debate on the subject then you don't know him, understand his arguments methods and games nearly as well as you put on. I can only hope you are not on the same path.

 

[InTheLight]

Zaac is pro-life, which, in his case means he's anti-abortion and anti-death penalty. Start a (another) thread on the death penalty and engage him.

 

[Benjamin]

Zaac is pro-life, which, in his case means he's anti-abortion and anti-death penalty. Start a (another) thread on the death penalty and engage him.

If you believe his arguments against anti-abortion, which is typically backed by a purely fallacious false dilemma as I pointed out and to which he quickly responded to with more foolishness that "he doesn't have to reason for truth" is some kind of proof of him being "pro-life" then both of you seriously need to learn some critical thinking skills before attempting to debate this subject with me. Not to mention the vast Biblical ignorance it displays backed with the same poor reasoning skills. I am not interested in the unprofitable games of senseless argument allowed to him on this board that by his own admission is not geared toward drawing out the truth!!

If you think this demonstrates an argument from someone with the least bit of critical thinking skills and/or is sincerely interested in getting to the truth rather than an agenda of simply putting down a ignorant fight against Christians to fight against anti-abortion on an internet forum then you have a long way to go buddy before trying to correct my response to his nonsense:

Zaac said: ↑
Again, no He doesn't and it's beyond disgusting the way some of you keep trying to justify murdering adults while pretending to express horror about the same government giving the okay to kill the unborn.

Do you even see what you're doing? You're saying that God values that unborn life more than HE does the born life.

The Bible doesn't mention abortion. It's a political issue. The only defense Christians have for being against it is that God said thou shall not murder. Yet it is obvious that you aren't pro-life at all.


He doesn't draw a distinction. If HE did, the thief on the Cross wouldn't be with Him today.
If HE did, HE would not have interfered with the crowd getting ready to stone the lady.

You're claiming a distinction that does not exist. And more and more it becomes more evident that the anti-abortion crowd isn't pro-life after all.

I don't have time to play with the foolish argumentative games he considers a "debate". I have much better uses for my time than trying to break that garbage down while he continues with his agenda of trolling here...

 

[Benjamin]

Zaac said: ↑
Again, no He doesn't and it's beyond disgusting the way some of you keep trying to justify murdering adults while pretending to express horror about the same government giving the okay to kill the unborn.

Do you even see what you're doing? You're saying that God values that unborn life more than HE does the born life.

The Bible doesn't mention abortion. It's a political issue. The only defense Christians have for being against it is that God said thou shall not murder. Yet it is obvious that you aren't pro-life at all.


He doesn't draw a distinction. If HE did, the thief on the Cross wouldn't be with Him today.
If HE did, HE would not have interfered with the crowd getting ready to stone the lady.

You're claiming a distinction that does not exist. And more and more it becomes more evident that the anti-abortion crowd isn't pro-life after all.

If that kind of garbage was presented in a philosophy debate class as an argument they would wonder if it was supposed to be some kind of joke!! Sadly, some here appreciate it.

 

[righteousdude2]

Didn't deny the truth of my statements, did ya?

Nothing to DENY ... no basis of facts within your rant filled, judgmental, insulting response!!

 

[righteousdude2]

I don't have time to play with the foolish argumentative games he considers a "debate". I have much better uses for my time than trying to break that garbage down while he continues with his agenda of trolling here...

I AGREED .... you called this one right! He does not debate; he is constantly u his responses to provoke others, insult others and establish higher spiritual ground!

 

[righteousdude2]

​

 

[Aaron]

Did you (can you?) read the thread title?

"Donald Trump is a lost soul who must repent".

Since he says he's not asked God for forgiveness, which I put down as he's never repented, I would say that yes, he's a lost soul that needs to repent. Do you agree with this or not? It is the subject of this thread, after all.

Wasn't the point of your conclusion, and that's what I'm dealing with, Zaac.

 

[Aaron]

Zaac is pro-life

Yeah. So's CBT.

 

[Rolfe]

Again, no He doesn't and it's beyond disgusting the way some of you keep trying to justify murdering adults while pretending to express horror about the same government giving the okay to kill the unborn.

I cannot speak for Others (though I am confident that many would agree), but the distinction is innocence. A condemned murderer who has violated the laws of his society deserves his punishment. A Baby who has not yet been born has not.

I suspect that you understand the reasoning but ignore it because it does not fit your argument.

 

[Zaac]

I cannot speak for Others (though I am confident that many would agree), but the distinction is innocence. A condemned murderer who has violated the laws of his society deserves his punishment. A Baby who has not yet been born has not.

I suspect that you understand the reasoning but ignore it because it does not fit your argument.

Just for the sake of not having this go off track, I'm gonna exclude these "innocent" babies (Who don't exist as God says for ALL have sinned.) for a minute.

You're not innocent. No one on this board is innocent. Yet you and a lot of folks don't seem to have a problem accepting the grace and mercy that Jesus extended to you by hanging and dying on the Cross.

In accordance with Scripture you and I should be treated as condemned murderers also. Scripture says:

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.


12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:10-13

So when are you stepping in line for your well deserved death sentence?

 

[Rolfe]

(...)

You're not innocent. No one on this board is innocent.

(...)

Offend Our Lord's Law, be subject to Its penalty/His mercy. Offend society's law, be subject to its penalty/mercy.

It is not difficult for most to understand.

 

[Zaac]

Offend Our Lord's Law, be subject to Its penalty/His mercy. Offend society's law, be subject to its penalty/mercy.

It is not difficult for most to understand.

Apparently it is as you and several others keep trying to say that Our Lord's Law condones capital punishment post Cross when it clearly DOES NOT.

So I ask again, when are you lining up for your capital punishment? Our Lord's Law says you're guilty of breaking the same laws as the society's law condemned murderer whose murder you advocate.

Our Lord's Law extends mercy to you for breaking the same of His laws as the man's law condemned murderer. So how again would you have the audacity( regardless of what the same government that sanctions abortion does) to advocate less punishment for yourself for breaking the same of God's law?

He extended YOU mercy. Why is your position as a follower of Christ who has been shown mercy not in opposition to the position of this wicked government that also advocates cracking the skulls of babies and sucking them from their mother's wombs?

 

[Zaac]

Offend Our Lord's Law, be subject to Its penalty/His mercy. Offend society's law, be subject to its penalty/mercy.

It is not difficult for most to understand.

YOU offended God's law and committed the same sin as did the condemned murderer. You have been shown mercy. So why do you not, as a Christian, advocate mercy as the right Christian position?

 

[Yeshua1]

YOU offended God's law and committed the same sin as did the condemned murderer. You have been shown mercy. So why do you not, as a Christian, advocate mercy as the right Christian position?

maybe because the Lord Himself has stated to us what his views are on this subject, and that you are on the wrong side on this issue, just as you are also going against God on issues like gays/Lesbian/Transgener "rights"...

 

[Yeshua1]

Let's not forget that your bigotry knows no end and causes you to bear false witness against that man again and again just because you don't like him. Of all the things that have pushed a gay agenda, the Obama White House would be very far down the list. You tell one radical right lie after the other and think just because you repeat it again and again that it's true.

How man times have the folks on the radical right claimed that gay marriage was a states right issue? There were some 35 states that legalized gay marriage. And that had nothing to do with Obama. The Supreme Court's ruling basically made it legal in all 50 states. Does Obama control the Supreme Court? Of course not. Just more of your radical right foolishness not based in reality.

Whose White House forced all the heterosexual porn sites? Whose White House forced the heterosexual soft porn on tv? Whose White House forced all the heterosexual filth that'd pervades every commercial? Whose White House is responsible for always showing or implying that unmarried heterosexual couples are having sex?



Good. He seems to have cut into many old men in the GOP's direct access to transgenders in the bathroom. I think that may be what so many of these old GOPers ae really so upset about.



Awww. Because immigrants have gotten a backbone in support of their home countries, you're upset. Pure silliness. Go to Chinatown or Germantown. Or go up to Boston where everyone is flying Irish paraphernalia. How did he make illegal immigrants to come out? STop this parroting of Fox NEws.


The folks hiring them mock the same laws.


That's hardly your problem with him.



Too many folks in the military listening to Fox News are what has really weakened the military as it has made them as disrespectful of their Commander in Chief as are the politically conservative republicans.



Pure foolishness based in your own bigotry. If you cared anything about this country, you wouldn't be supporting Donald Trump for President. So save the histrionics

Of the many GOP candidates, I knew back in the fall that your bigotry would push you toward another bigot.

Does God consider a marriage between a man/man or a woman/woman then as being in a Covenant relationship, in same fashion as between a man and a woman?

And WHY would you even want this nation to go down this pathway of legitimizing all sorts of abominable practices, as every nation who did that in history fell apart!

And why would it be wrong to have a murderer put to death for his crimes, for paul stated to us in Romans the God has ordained that right unto the govt, and that was after the Cross!

 

[Rolfe]

YOU offended God's law and committed the same sin as did the condemned murderer. You have been shown mercy.

Spiritual v. temporal, Zaac.

So why do you not, as a Christian, advocate mercy as the right Christian position?

Ridiculous question. Why would you think that I would hide John 3:16 from anyone?

 

[righteousdude2]

Let's not forget that your bigotry knows no end and causes you to bear false witness against that man again and again just because you don't like him.

Of course not. Just more of your radical right foolishness not based in reality.

Pure foolishness based in your own bigotry. If you cared anything about this country, you wouldn't be supporting Donald Trump for President. So save the histrionics

Of the many GOP candidates, I knew back in the fall that your bigotry would push you toward another bigot.

It is evident you lack the most important piece of fruit named in the NT: LOVE! Let me remind you of what Love is ... try eating from it's bowl, and emulating its manifestation when speaking to, addressing or even debating others on this board!

So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I’m bankrupt without love.​

Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn’t want what it doesn’t have.
Love doesn’t strut,
Doesn’t have a swelled head,
Doesn’t force itself on others,
Isn’t always “me first,”
Doesn’t fly off the handle,
Doesn’t keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn’t revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.
1 Co. 13:6-7​

Once you return to the basics son, you will be able to cast your judgments towards other in a civil, cordial manner.If you are truly operating out of LOVE, I think your days of snarky, insulting comments will all but be gone!

I'm calling you out to start practicing what the Bible teaches about love! I hope this isn't responded to with more snarkiness, and or torn apart and responded to in a way that doesn't reflect the God, ALL of us serve and love! You don't have a monopoly on God, brother. your form of debating has long ago moved out of the arena of love, and into an arena of distasteful name-calling; innuendos; and vitriol, which is a shame because I see you as being intelligent and more than capable of presenting a view that doesn't need to insult the intelligence or the beliefs of those you attack without just cause!

I pray you can find your way back to civil debating, because it will help you and the board in the long run! Shalom!

 

[Zaac]

Spiritual v. temporal, Zaac.

Nope. The only reason temporal comes into play is because you need it to make an excuse. The word of God makes clear that you deserve the same death as one convicted to receive capital punishment by the secular government . YOU just seem to think your breaking God's law is different.

Ridiculous question. Why would you think that I would hide John 3:16 from anyone?

A ridiculous answer designed to avoid answering the question. IS your sin special? Why don't you advocate death for yourself as you've broken the same law as the ones you're okay with advocating death as their punishment from a secular government?