Hope of Glory
New Member
The word "unknown" never appears with "tongues" in the Greek.
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Speaking in Tongues Continued
- Thread starter DHK
- Start date
Bible-Boy,
Well, If I ever say something like "DHK, not I, but God Himself through me, says unto you...IT WILL HAPPEN! I prophesy it...let it be unto you!"
...then I guess you would have a case to pick up some stones, IF we were Israelites living under the Law.
Course, I didnt say anything like that. I just said I believe DHK would be a prime candidate, and I believe it will happen.
Doesnt mean its a sure thing to happen in this life. It might...might not.
But God does those kind of things a lot, in case you havent noticed.
How many times have you heard testimonies like...
"I was the last person in the world that you would expect to ever come to Christ, but then God got a hold of me and..."
Or...
"I was so much against "miracles", you couldnt find anyone in this world more against them then me...until that brother said "Be healed!" as he laid hands on me, and the sickness was absolutly GONE!"
Or...
"I was so against tongues, I was telling every one that would listen that they were of the devil, until that day in the service I lifted my hands and said "I love you Jesus" in English, and then all of a sudden..."
God will take someone like me who believes tongues are completly of God and gift me in all kinds of ways other than tongues, but then take a brother like DHK and turn his world upside down in an instant by giving him tongues.
God is just that way sometimes!
In~His~Grace,
Mike
Ha ha!
Well, If I ever say something like "DHK, not I, but God Himself through me, says unto you...IT WILL HAPPEN! I prophesy it...let it be unto you!"
...then I guess you would have a case to pick up some stones, IF we were Israelites living under the Law.
Course, I didnt say anything like that. I just said I believe DHK would be a prime candidate, and I believe it will happen.
Doesnt mean its a sure thing to happen in this life. It might...might not.
But God does those kind of things a lot, in case you havent noticed.
How many times have you heard testimonies like...
"I was the last person in the world that you would expect to ever come to Christ, but then God got a hold of me and..."
Or...
"I was so much against "miracles", you couldnt find anyone in this world more against them then me...until that brother said "Be healed!" as he laid hands on me, and the sickness was absolutly GONE!"
Or...
"I was so against tongues, I was telling every one that would listen that they were of the devil, until that day in the service I lifted my hands and said "I love you Jesus" in English, and then all of a sudden..."
God will take someone like me who believes tongues are completly of God and gift me in all kinds of ways other than tongues, but then take a brother like DHK and turn his world upside down in an instant by giving him tongues.
God is just that way sometimes!
In~His~Grace,
Mike
Hope of Glory,
When Catholic apologists, in defending Romes false gospel of faith plus works, actually say...
"Why, the only place that the words "Faith" and "Alone" are used together is in James, where it says we are not saved by faith alone!"
(eyes rolling)
And they expect thinking people to believe that.
Nothing like little word games to bring a smile.
God bless,
Mike
(Smile) Do you know what that reminds me of?
When Catholic apologists, in defending Romes false gospel of faith plus works, actually say...
"Why, the only place that the words "Faith" and "Alone" are used together is in James, where it says we are not saved by faith alone!"
(eyes rolling)
And they expect thinking people to believe that.
Nothing like little word games to bring a smile.
God bless,
Mike
hillclimber
New Member
DHK, I really enjoy reading your thoughts on this issue of tongues and agree fully with you.
I truly believe a Christian can not grow in the Lord as long as he is engaged in the tongues movement. It's use today is not of God and plays on the overtaxed emotions of believers. That is why people generally do not last nearly as long in a pentecostal environment. They spend their emotional energy over some years and then spend many years drifting, without fellowship (or reduced) with the Lord. I've seen that happen here in our town way too much.
I truly believe a Christian can not grow in the Lord as long as he is engaged in the tongues movement. It's use today is not of God and plays on the overtaxed emotions of believers. That is why people generally do not last nearly as long in a pentecostal environment. They spend their emotional energy over some years and then spend many years drifting, without fellowship (or reduced) with the Lord. I've seen that happen here in our town way too much.
Ray Berrian
New Member
Bible-boy,
I feel disrespectful to you by calling you Bible-boy. Do you have a first name that I can call you.
You said in your post, 'I agree so long as what they say falls in line with the clear objective teaching of the Scripture. If not it must be rejected as error. We must pass our feelings and experiences through the sieve of the Word and not try to force the Word through the sieve of our feelings and experiences. If we do that (pass the Word through our feelings and experiences) we set ourselfs up as an authority over the Word. The Word is and must always be our final authority.
I agree. Furthermore, I maintain that there is only one correct interpretation of the Word. That correct interpretation of the Word is the interpretation and meaning that the author of Scripture intended when He inspired it to be written. Our job is to expose (preach) that correct Holy Spirit inspired interpretation through the use of sound hermeneutics and solid exegesis of the text of Scripture.'
[My Quote] Tell me something I don't know. I agree with you and knew this back when I was about 15 years old. All truly believe what you have said in your post. [End Quote].
I feel disrespectful to you by calling you Bible-boy. Do you have a first name that I can call you.
You said in your post, 'I agree so long as what they say falls in line with the clear objective teaching of the Scripture. If not it must be rejected as error. We must pass our feelings and experiences through the sieve of the Word and not try to force the Word through the sieve of our feelings and experiences. If we do that (pass the Word through our feelings and experiences) we set ourselfs up as an authority over the Word. The Word is and must always be our final authority.
I agree. Furthermore, I maintain that there is only one correct interpretation of the Word. That correct interpretation of the Word is the interpretation and meaning that the author of Scripture intended when He inspired it to be written. Our job is to expose (preach) that correct Holy Spirit inspired interpretation through the use of sound hermeneutics and solid exegesis of the text of Scripture.'
[My Quote] Tell me something I don't know. I agree with you and knew this back when I was about 15 years old. All truly believe what you have said in your post. [End Quote].
Ray Berrian
New Member
DHK,
I respect your missionary tours in your service to Christ. Thank the Lord He used you.
But as to your statment below this is the most unspiritual and poorest interpretation that I have ever heard. You said,
'I believe that is what Paul meant when he said to the Corinthians "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than ye all." He had need of them more than they did. He traveled more than they did, and had to use foreign languages in the different nations to which God sent him during his missionary travels. Therein was the purpose of tongues. It was that the church might be edified--for all the believers, even those present that might speak another language. But it was probably translated back into Hebrew as a sign to the Jews. The Jews were scattered all throughout the known world at that time.'
I thought a pastor would know that Greek was the language of all the people, more especially in the Gentile world a ports of entry that Paul visited and set up churches. The Apostle Paul absolutely did not have several languages that he used, nor was there a mysterious, miraculous power given by God to speak the different languages of the various countries in which he ministered. This is what happens when you interpret Scripture at the 'onset'. The rest of ideas become distorted.
Now, please tell us that when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes that He spoke to them in the Hebrew language.
You amaze me with you private interpretations. You need to study the background of the cities that Paul set up churches at in the N.T., like Colossians for example.
You are unbelievable with your 'spin' on Scripture.
I mean this sincerely without any venom or spite.
I respect your missionary tours in your service to Christ. Thank the Lord He used you.
But as to your statment below this is the most unspiritual and poorest interpretation that I have ever heard. You said,
'I believe that is what Paul meant when he said to the Corinthians "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than ye all." He had need of them more than they did. He traveled more than they did, and had to use foreign languages in the different nations to which God sent him during his missionary travels. Therein was the purpose of tongues. It was that the church might be edified--for all the believers, even those present that might speak another language. But it was probably translated back into Hebrew as a sign to the Jews. The Jews were scattered all throughout the known world at that time.'
I thought a pastor would know that Greek was the language of all the people, more especially in the Gentile world a ports of entry that Paul visited and set up churches. The Apostle Paul absolutely did not have several languages that he used, nor was there a mysterious, miraculous power given by God to speak the different languages of the various countries in which he ministered. This is what happens when you interpret Scripture at the 'onset'. The rest of ideas become distorted.
Now, please tell us that when Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, Sadducees and scribes that He spoke to them in the Hebrew language.
You amaze me with you private interpretations. You need to study the background of the cities that Paul set up churches at in the N.T., like Colossians for example.
You are unbelievable with your 'spin' on Scripture.
I mean this sincerely without any venom or spite.
Ray Berrian
New Member
Bible-boy,
The term being 'slain in the Spirit' is a term some Christians use to describe when the Spirit of God moves so close to you that He overpowers you to bless you.
When I was saved nothing like this happened to me and perhaps 90 some percent of the people were the same as my peaceful experience of being forgiven.
In Acts 9:4 Saul was overpowered by the Spirit of God and could no longer stand up.
Secondly, the Apostle John in Revelation 1:17 also experienced being 'slain by God the Spirit' where he says, 'And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet, as dead.' John was not merely bowing in adoration and worship of Jesus. You wanted documentation and there it is in your KJV.
Now we sit back and watch for people's spin on the Scripture in stead of bowing to His sovereign words to us.
Perhaps most will never experience this as I do not speak in tongues or have the gift of the 'interpretation of tongues.' Christians do not get all of the gifts. The best Gift is knowing Jesus and being able to serve Him while we are here. I know everyone on the board will agree with this last sentence. So that is a start.
The term being 'slain in the Spirit' is a term some Christians use to describe when the Spirit of God moves so close to you that He overpowers you to bless you.
When I was saved nothing like this happened to me and perhaps 90 some percent of the people were the same as my peaceful experience of being forgiven.
In Acts 9:4 Saul was overpowered by the Spirit of God and could no longer stand up.
Secondly, the Apostle John in Revelation 1:17 also experienced being 'slain by God the Spirit' where he says, 'And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet, as dead.' John was not merely bowing in adoration and worship of Jesus. You wanted documentation and there it is in your KJV.
Now we sit back and watch for people's spin on the Scripture in stead of bowing to His sovereign words to us.
Perhaps most will never experience this as I do not speak in tongues or have the gift of the 'interpretation of tongues.' Christians do not get all of the gifts. The best Gift is knowing Jesus and being able to serve Him while we are here. I know everyone on the board will agree with this last sentence. So that is a start.
Ray Berrian
New Member
There is as much pride in some Christians who carry their KJV to church and say the Bible is the inspired Word of God and this is the only way the Lord can speak to a person.
Yes, there are Christians who are wrongfully proud of specific gifts that they have. Some think if you do not speak in tongues you are not as spiritual as they are. I do not speak in tongues but I'm unwilling to circumvent the teaching of the Apostle Paul in I Corinthians 12 and 14.
Another error is that people think they can 'speak in tongues' and still commit sins and think they are still filled with the Spirit of God. This also is wrong in my opinion. Because 'the gifts and callings of God are without repentence' [Romans 11:29] even in the matter of salvation, non-tongue speaking Christians can still commit sin while being eternally secure in Christ.
Each side has their faults, but this does not mean that the security of the believer is wrong, nor that the 'gift of tongues' and the 'interpretation of tongues' is not Biblical in our times.
Yes, there are Christians who are wrongfully proud of specific gifts that they have. Some think if you do not speak in tongues you are not as spiritual as they are. I do not speak in tongues but I'm unwilling to circumvent the teaching of the Apostle Paul in I Corinthians 12 and 14.
Another error is that people think they can 'speak in tongues' and still commit sins and think they are still filled with the Spirit of God. This also is wrong in my opinion. Because 'the gifts and callings of God are without repentence' [Romans 11:29] even in the matter of salvation, non-tongue speaking Christians can still commit sin while being eternally secure in Christ.
Each side has their faults, but this does not mean that the security of the believer is wrong, nor that the 'gift of tongues' and the 'interpretation of tongues' is not Biblical in our times.
tamborine lady
Active Member
quote:
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Originally posted by tamborine lady:
But I must say I agree with Ray, the people that preached in Acts 2 spoke one language, and the people heard it in their own native tongue, because it was traslated by the Holy Ghost!
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Then you too disagree with the Bible.
How do you explain what the Bible plainly says:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
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No, I don't disagree with the Bible. I disagree with you. Granted, I did not say that right. Let me say it again.
When the Holy Ghost and fire came down, and they began to speak with tongues, they were all speaking different languages. Not only that, from the way the scripture reads they were all speaking at once!
Acts 2-14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
This is when I believe the Holy Spirit did the translating. He was the only one speaking at that time.
Or do you think that they could all speak at once, and it was O.K. But later they couldn't all speak at once.
In the scripture you quoted, they all began to speak, presumably at one time.
What happens in churches to day is the same. There are people who may speak quietly in tongues. More than one at the same time. It does not disrupt the service, singing goes on, preaching does on with no problem.
Now whenever someone stands up and speaks in a loud assertive voice,or does it sitting, either way,that is a message in tongues. I have never been in a service where there was not an interpretation.
People can make fun of it all they want, but it IS from God!
I shall go to my spirit filled church tomorrow,( a church where spirit filled people go) and I will be blessed of the Lord. (when I say spirit filled , I am not saying others are not filled with the spirit.)
Peace,
Tam
Joh 11:33-35 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
I don't think we should reject our experience and feelings, or then some might ask where is our love for others? I try to be a caring person and ask the Lord to give me a sensitive Spirit towards others so that I might help lift them up when they are hurting.
I do agree that our experience and feelings need to fall in line with the objective truth of the Word.
Music4Him
Greek was the universal of the day. That is true. And on the Day of Pentecost the 120 could have spoken in Greek and everyone would have understood them, correct? But that would not have been a sign, wouldn't it? Tongues was a sign to the Jews (1Cor.14:21). The Jews had gathered together. They all knew Greek. In fact they all knew Hebrew. But they said: "How hear we every man in our own tongue" (in the land that we were born). They were referring to their native tongue, the language which they grew up with. Those languages are listed in Acts 2. Peter and John, though simple fishermen, knew Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin at the very least. The synagogues in which they were instructed gave all of the Israelites a very good education. Tongues was a sign to the nation of Israel that judgement was imminent. Thus when Paul had the opportunity to go to Spain the Lord would no doubt give him the gift of tongues for the benefit of the Spanish speaking people, whether or not they grasped Greek. If I go to a third world nation, I must learn their language if I am going to reach them, whether or not they have a grasp of English. Paul himself said:
1 Corinthians 9:20-21 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
He adapted to the culture of other nations, learning or speaking in their languages, as the Lord would give him utterance.
DHK
So far so good.
This is where you seem to go off the trail.
Peter points to an already past event. The speaking in tongues had either just come to an end or was just coming to an end. He was probably speaking in Greek (maybe Hebrew because they were all Jews). But look what he says:
"Hearken unto my words:
Acts 2:15-16 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Peter is hot speaking in tongues. He is preaching in their language, pointing to the event of tongues. These are not drunken as ye suppose. He doesn't say "I am not drunk." He is pointing to those that are or just had spoken in tongues. Peter was preaching a sermon in the language of that day whether it would be Hebrew or Greek, probably Greek. There is no indication in the text whatsoever that Peter preached his sermon in any other tongue or language other than the language of that day.
You already stated this. The Bible states this. The spoke with other tongues. It is plain. The event at Pentecost was different than later on. The Book of Acts is a book of the church in transition. This was the very beginning of the church. Later on restrictions had to be imposed, for the gift was being abused.
That is true. And for that reason what goes on today is totally unbiblical. Pentecost does not repeat itself. Do you all have cloven tongues of fire upon your heads. Is there a mighty rushing wind that accompanies you? There was only one Pentecost. It was a historical event that cannot be duplicated. If you take that as your precedent for what you do in your churches, you are wrong. Instructions for speaking in tongues in the church were given in 1Cor.12-14., providing they were for today. The Day of Pentecost can never be duplicated.
That again is unsciptural. If it does not edify the entire church it is unscriptural. If they have no interpretation it is unscriptural. They have made it into a selfish "spiritual" gift. List one other gift that is used for only yourself. Do you heal just yourself (gift of healing)? Do you help just yourself (gift of helps)? All gifts were used for the benefit of the entire church. There is not one verse in all the Bible that advocates using tongues as a prayer language, or speaking quietly to themselves while the service is going on. It is unscriptural.
Yes you have. You do it yourself. It does not say loud and assertive.
Here is what it says:
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
What part of the word silence do you not understand?
What else does the Lord say:
1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
--There is that word silence again. It means complete silence; not speaking quietly in tongues, but be silent. If you do not have an interpreter Keep Quiet!! You must have an interpreter at all times if you speak in tongues. Since tongues is a gift given to the church, that is the only place where it may be Scripturally used.
It is a sign gift. It is only from God if it is used as a sign--a sign for the unbelieving Jew; a sign to authenticate one of the twelve apostles and their close associaties, and the message of those apostles. If you don't have those first century unbelieving Jews in your churches, or any of the 12 apostles, then what you speak is not of God. The sign has passed away.
I hope that you will be filled with the Spirit. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit. But that has nothing to do with speaking in tongues.
DHK
Ray,
This is what you previously said about Benny Hinn:
First, Benny Hinn does not believe in the same God that we believe in.
He believes that within each person of the triune Godhead are three other persons making the Godhead consist of nine separate persons. This in itself is heresy.
Hinn teaches that Christ laid aside "his divine form" that we "might become divine." He teaches the same lie that Satan offered Eve in the garden: "Ye shall be like gods." Except that he says you will be gods, and even you are gods. This is blatant heresy.
Then Hinn takes it a step further. Since we have Christ dwelling in us, we have the Christ nature. Thus we are Christ. Every one of us are Christs. "Not only we are God--we are Christ!" was his exact words. Blasphemy!
But Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, and others have a reason for teaching such heresy. They are part of the Word of Faith movement which teaches a gospel of wealth, health and prosperity. If they are God, then they have every right to expect riches, good health, lots of wealth, etc. God wouldn't expect anything less for himself would he? Hinn is a fraud. His theology doesn't even come close to Biblical Christianity.
Unfortunately this doesn't say a lot about your spiritual discernment of "Christian" leaders.
DHK
This is what you previously said about Benny Hinn:
Benny Hinn is a heretic. I don't believe he is saved. He is a fraud, a charlatan, a cheat and a liar. And yes, all those things can be backed up and substantiated.
First, Benny Hinn does not believe in the same God that we believe in.
He believes that within each person of the triune Godhead are three other persons making the Godhead consist of nine separate persons. This in itself is heresy.
Hinn teaches that Christ laid aside "his divine form" that we "might become divine." He teaches the same lie that Satan offered Eve in the garden: "Ye shall be like gods." Except that he says you will be gods, and even you are gods. This is blatant heresy.
Then Hinn takes it a step further. Since we have Christ dwelling in us, we have the Christ nature. Thus we are Christ. Every one of us are Christs. "Not only we are God--we are Christ!" was his exact words. Blasphemy!
But Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, and others have a reason for teaching such heresy. They are part of the Word of Faith movement which teaches a gospel of wealth, health and prosperity. If they are God, then they have every right to expect riches, good health, lots of wealth, etc. God wouldn't expect anything less for himself would he? Hinn is a fraud. His theology doesn't even come close to Biblical Christianity.
Unfortunately this doesn't say a lot about your spiritual discernment of "Christian" leaders.
DHK
I was invited once to a 'lighthouse' tabernacle meeting. I went.
There was scheduled to preach, 6 preachers (one of whom was a woman) and these were scheduled to speak only 10 mins.
five of the six 'spoke' in tongues. The first to do this started his sermon by singing "Jesus is Coming Soon".
and would break into 'SHaKa KHahn' throughout the song.
The man I was with (also a preacher formerly raised a baptist, but falling into a divorce and at that time living with a woman; told the pastor of the tabernacle that I too was a preacher). At which time I was invited to speak, after everyone else did of course and only for ten minutes.
The man I was with tried to encourage me to speak. He was scheduled to speak. He tried to convince me of the truth of the tongues we heard that night. But he could not tell me what was being stated, neither could the pastor, nor any of the speakers who perpetrated them.
Again, near the end of the last speaker's message the pastor came to me and asked me to speak. I told him I could not. He was surprised and asked me why I couldn't. I told him I did not feel the Spirit and had no message to speak.
I wanted to, but I was so much surrounded and I hadn't been preaching long, I really just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. Unfortunately I rode with the man I was with and could not leave until he did.
I had been trying to help him to stop his relationship with the woman as it was ungodly to live with her and though I disagree with a man preaching and having two living wives I tried to get him to marry her. He never would and still has not; for a time he expressed his being 'hurt' by me because I no longer fellowshipped with him.
My point is we have a choice, knowing the truth, we may practice unBiblically, or we may remain within the scope of the Bible.
How we respond is many times the depth of the riches of His Grace that we realize in this world.
Can someone tell me what Shaka Kahn means? And how it relates to 'Jesus is coming soon"?
Thanks.
Bro. Dallas
There was scheduled to preach, 6 preachers (one of whom was a woman) and these were scheduled to speak only 10 mins.
five of the six 'spoke' in tongues. The first to do this started his sermon by singing "Jesus is Coming Soon".
and would break into 'SHaKa KHahn' throughout the song.
The man I was with (also a preacher formerly raised a baptist, but falling into a divorce and at that time living with a woman; told the pastor of the tabernacle that I too was a preacher). At which time I was invited to speak, after everyone else did of course and only for ten minutes.
The man I was with tried to encourage me to speak. He was scheduled to speak. He tried to convince me of the truth of the tongues we heard that night. But he could not tell me what was being stated, neither could the pastor, nor any of the speakers who perpetrated them.
Again, near the end of the last speaker's message the pastor came to me and asked me to speak. I told him I could not. He was surprised and asked me why I couldn't. I told him I did not feel the Spirit and had no message to speak.
I wanted to, but I was so much surrounded and I hadn't been preaching long, I really just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. Unfortunately I rode with the man I was with and could not leave until he did.
I had been trying to help him to stop his relationship with the woman as it was ungodly to live with her and though I disagree with a man preaching and having two living wives I tried to get him to marry her. He never would and still has not; for a time he expressed his being 'hurt' by me because I no longer fellowshipped with him.
My point is we have a choice, knowing the truth, we may practice unBiblically, or we may remain within the scope of the Bible.
How we respond is many times the depth of the riches of His Grace that we realize in this world.
Can someone tell me what Shaka Kahn means? And how it relates to 'Jesus is coming soon"?
Thanks.
Bro. Dallas
tamborine lady
Active Member
I'm sorry, DHK, that you cannot see the scriptures as I do. But then it does say that not all shall have the gifts. Not all will speak with tongues. I'm in no way implying that I am better than anyone else because I do.
But one thing I do know, no matter how many tell me it is wrong, I will stand my ground because I know that the one who saved me will not lead me astray.
Peace,
Tam
tamborine lady
Active Member
Dhk said
eter points to an already past event. The speaking in tongues had either just come to an end or was just coming to an end. He was probably speaking in Greek (maybe Hebrew because they were all Jews).**********************************
Acts 2-7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
They all spoke different languages. As shown by the scripture above. They probably did not all speak greek or hebrew!
Otherwise why bother with the first display of all hearing in their own language?
Tam
Hope of Glory
New Member
It's not a word game. When you realize that there is no such thing as an "unknown" tongue, that rules out about 99% of all those who supposedly speak in tongues, including some of those here on this thread.
Are tongues for today? I think Scripture is pretty clear that they are not a part of God's plan for today. Most of those who speak in tongues (either gibberish or truly glossalia) are certainly not holy, even if their intentions are.
But, even if it's not a part of God's plan, does he permit some to speak in tongues legitimately? Well, his plan was for the children of Israel to eat manna. They wanted something else. They wanted it badly. They whined and complained and prayed for meat. So, he gave it to them, and it made them sick!
So, although the only cases that I have personally witnessed have been gibberish or evil (in some cases, they were using real languages that they didn't know to curse God), I don't rule out that it is possible that there are those who truly have been granted this ability by God. I think it's not part of his plan, though. Even if it is, I've never witnessed a single example where the people were even attempting to use tongues in the manner proscribed in the Bible.
Are tongues for today? I think Scripture is pretty clear that they are not a part of God's plan for today. Most of those who speak in tongues (either gibberish or truly glossalia) are certainly not holy, even if their intentions are.
But, even if it's not a part of God's plan, does he permit some to speak in tongues legitimately? Well, his plan was for the children of Israel to eat manna. They wanted something else. They wanted it badly. They whined and complained and prayed for meat. So, he gave it to them, and it made them sick!
So, although the only cases that I have personally witnessed have been gibberish or evil (in some cases, they were using real languages that they didn't know to curse God), I don't rule out that it is possible that there are those who truly have been granted this ability by God. I think it's not part of his plan, though. Even if it is, I've never witnessed a single example where the people were even attempting to use tongues in the manner proscribed in the Bible.
tamborine lady
Active Member
Hope of Glory said:
Are tongues for today? I think Scripture is pretty clear that they are not a part of God's plan for today. Most of those who speak in tongues (either gibberish or truly glossalia) are certainly not holy, even if their intentions are.
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My answer is that the Bible clearly shows that tongues have not ceased. They are still of God today.
Most of those who say it's not for today are certainly not holy, even if their intentions are.
Peace,
Tam
Ray Berrian
New Member
I feel comfortable with Baptists who are more Arminian in doctrine and my wife and I have been attending an American Baptist denomination. They are the group that is against homosexuality and one of the Elders let me know there is division on this issue. I too, know that homosexuality is a gross sin and preached against it when I had churches.
Anyway, I agree with you DHK that those preachers you mentioned have a totally wrong emphasis by preaching the message that the Lord wants us to desire wealth. If the Lord wants you to have wealth you do not have to try to manipulate Him into giving it to you. Jesus has always promised to take care of us and to meet our needs. I always had to work for my salary and this is the 'work ethic' that Paul taught in his epistles.
As to Pastor Hinn and Copeland I have learned some good lessons from them and even checked Hinn when he made reference to a Hebrew word in the Psalms.
I looked it up and he was correct with the phonetic sound and the meaning as stated by Dr. James Strong.
On this board I have read of these fantastic ideas that people say that Pastor Hinn preaches and 98% of them I do not believe he said them. It is the hate tactic so some denominations can protect losing their own denominational members. It is like if a Pentecostal would say, "Yea those Baptists believe in eternal security and they teach that once a person is saved they can live like the Devil and still go to Heaven." This, of course, is unfair and untrue, but some Christians say these things which never should have left their mouth.
One time I did hear Pastor Hinn say that he thinks in the future, some people are going to pray for those who have died and they will come back to life. This is something that I would never have said from a pulpit, but I guess if the Lord wanted to do this miracle it would be well within His power and ability.
The more successful some non-Pentecostal pastors become, it seem that they protest what Hinn does because they are jealous of his overcrowded stadiums when he goes to third world nations. I celebrate those who are more gifted than me and pray for their continued success for the Lord. I don't mind being one of the lesser saints in the Kingdom of God.
The fitting verse is when the disciples were upset because a preacher who cast out demons would not join with Jesus and the 12 disciples. Jesus said, 'He that is not against me is for me.' There's your sign!! Don't condemn other people who believe that Jesus is Divine and that only through His blood can we be saved forever. We are to be brothers not adversaries within the life of the church.
And Frogman gave a curious example of a weard church because things were done clearly out of Divine order as directed in I Corinthians 12 @ 14. I know of a brother in the faith who has a small group who do strange things; I never desired to join with them either. That is why I have recently said that not just any saved person should be preaching the holy Gospel. Some do more harm than good, in my view.
I grieve in my spirit when I hear people say that the gifts of the Spirit are 'gibberish;' this is a grave sin and an affront to the Lord God Almighty.
When it comes to the Holy Spirit I always want to err on the cautious side of spiritual realities.
Anyway, I agree with you DHK that those preachers you mentioned have a totally wrong emphasis by preaching the message that the Lord wants us to desire wealth. If the Lord wants you to have wealth you do not have to try to manipulate Him into giving it to you. Jesus has always promised to take care of us and to meet our needs. I always had to work for my salary and this is the 'work ethic' that Paul taught in his epistles.
As to Pastor Hinn and Copeland I have learned some good lessons from them and even checked Hinn when he made reference to a Hebrew word in the Psalms.
I looked it up and he was correct with the phonetic sound and the meaning as stated by Dr. James Strong.
On this board I have read of these fantastic ideas that people say that Pastor Hinn preaches and 98% of them I do not believe he said them. It is the hate tactic so some denominations can protect losing their own denominational members. It is like if a Pentecostal would say, "Yea those Baptists believe in eternal security and they teach that once a person is saved they can live like the Devil and still go to Heaven." This, of course, is unfair and untrue, but some Christians say these things which never should have left their mouth.
One time I did hear Pastor Hinn say that he thinks in the future, some people are going to pray for those who have died and they will come back to life. This is something that I would never have said from a pulpit, but I guess if the Lord wanted to do this miracle it would be well within His power and ability.
The more successful some non-Pentecostal pastors become, it seem that they protest what Hinn does because they are jealous of his overcrowded stadiums when he goes to third world nations. I celebrate those who are more gifted than me and pray for their continued success for the Lord. I don't mind being one of the lesser saints in the Kingdom of God.
The fitting verse is when the disciples were upset because a preacher who cast out demons would not join with Jesus and the 12 disciples. Jesus said, 'He that is not against me is for me.' There's your sign!! Don't condemn other people who believe that Jesus is Divine and that only through His blood can we be saved forever. We are to be brothers not adversaries within the life of the church.
And Frogman gave a curious example of a weard church because things were done clearly out of Divine order as directed in I Corinthians 12 @ 14. I know of a brother in the faith who has a small group who do strange things; I never desired to join with them either. That is why I have recently said that not just any saved person should be preaching the holy Gospel. Some do more harm than good, in my view.
I grieve in my spirit when I hear people say that the gifts of the Spirit are 'gibberish;' this is a grave sin and an affront to the Lord God Almighty.
When it comes to the Holy Spirit I always want to err on the cautious side of spiritual realities.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Well, if you're referring to me, I never said the gifts of the Spirit are gibberish. I said that many who claim to speak in so-called "unknown" tongues are speaking gibberish. (I also said that others were speaking real languages ("unknown" never appears with "tongues" in the Bible) and they were unknowingly cursing God.)
But, the signs of the spirit aren't outward signs. The sign-gifts were given for a specific reason and that specific reason went away about 69 AD. The gifts of the Spirit today are to some; prophecy (not fortune telling; not a python spirit), to some; evangelism, and to some; pastor-teachers.
However, just like the children of Israel, sometimes God will give people what they ask for, even if it's not in his perfect will. And, God will work it all to his honor and glory in the long run.
But, the signs of the spirit aren't outward signs. The sign-gifts were given for a specific reason and that specific reason went away about 69 AD. The gifts of the Spirit today are to some; prophecy (not fortune telling; not a python spirit), to some; evangelism, and to some; pastor-teachers.
However, just like the children of Israel, sometimes God will give people what they ask for, even if it's not in his perfect will. And, God will work it all to his honor and glory in the long run.