Right. Not norm because of our unbelief?
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Speaking in Tongues ... Does YOUR Church Allow it?
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Right. Not norm because of our unbelief?
saturneptune
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Yes, and to make matters worse, she burnt her hand when she read the waffle iron.
None of those gifts have ever been the "norm".
I've heard anecdotes, but never a documented case of a modern missionary miraculously receiving a foreign tongue.
Some of the original Pentecostals in 1906, including Charles Parham, thought that their missionaries would simply go to different countries and speak their languages miraculously (Azusa Street and Beyond, ed. by L. Grant McClung, Jr., pp. 13-14). Of course that didn't happen, and even today Pentecostals and Charismatics have to go to language school, just like us Baptists!
John, that is....
... a fact! And for those who think otherwise, they need to rethink what tongues in worship is all about! Thanks for clearing up a myth, at least as far as I know from my research, too!
... a fact! And for those who think otherwise, they need to rethink what tongues in worship is all about! Thanks for clearing up a myth, at least as far as I know from my research, too!
The people who I have ministered to, have all testified that "tongues in worship" is simply a seance calling the devils to join.
Some have become possessed, at their initial seance, in an Azusa St. COGIC "church", and were eventually declared "MPD" and put in the looney bin, or on disability.
They are healed now, of course.
Others had psychotic episodes, during a "prayer meeting", and described to me the overwhelming presence of the evil spirits in the seance.
Still another, who is now a minister of the Gospel, who was being groomed by his "church" for the ministry, yet dead in sins, told of how he could not "speak in tongues".
He said that he kept waiting for someone to "let him in on the secret". Eventually, he figured that God must not want him, and he quit "church" after having spent his whole life in it. I spent 2 years discipling him, and he, better than I, can explain the difference in seance tongues, and Bible tongues.
I've heard the devils speak, denying Jesus', claiming "you can't have him, he's mine".
I've seen the jaw, controlled by an evil spirit, unhinged, snapping like an alligator's.
I've heard the tongue, so long possessed, that it could barely form words.
I've seen the trance, eyes staring blankly forward, while the woman repeats to me "the voices say you are a liar", and "the voices say Jesus isn't God".
Lastly, my Assembly of God stepmom lays in a fetal position and shakes, wont leave the house for days, and lives in fear and paranoia, depending on anti-psychotic prescriptions and her "prayer/worship" language. She gets worse daily. Her children have all declared atheism, or agnosticism, and all claim that their mother has some kind of disorder, wether mental or spiritual.
No, you won't convince this "old dog" of any "new tricks", cuz I've seen it for myself.
May God judge you swiftly, if you are a minister of the Evil One.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Frankly, I'm amazed this thread has lasted this long. I can't believe the number of Baptists who seem to think the practice of tongues today is valid and biblical. It is neither.
And yeah, RD2, I say this with love and affection, but you need correction. This concept of a "full gospel" is a Pentecostal misnomer. The gospel is the gospel, either you preach it or you don't. Your example of the "black church, white church" in Texas is not a matter of the gospel not being fully preached, it is a matter of the white church choosing sinful prejudice over brotherly love. That relates to the gospel, but it is not the gospel, per se.
Local church autonomy allows the local church to do pretty much what it pleases, but an SBC church that would allow the practice of tongues should be confronted by believers who know better. That is what I meant by "correction."
And yeah, RD2, I say this with love and affection, but you need correction. This concept of a "full gospel" is a Pentecostal misnomer. The gospel is the gospel, either you preach it or you don't. Your example of the "black church, white church" in Texas is not a matter of the gospel not being fully preached, it is a matter of the white church choosing sinful prejudice over brotherly love. That relates to the gospel, but it is not the gospel, per se.
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thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
The personal beliefs of half of SBC pastors doesn't make their opinion correct. More likely, it means that half of the SBC pastors surveyed are wrong. I also doubt the percentage is that high. While half of those surveyed responded affirmatively, it is highly doubtful half of SBC pastors actually believe that to be true.
No, rather due to us having the Bible canon, and no more modern Apostles required!
No additional revelations from prophets either!
True, as the Lord bestowed those 'special gifts" upon the Apsotles of Jesus, for a specific time and reason!
the gospel is NOT tongues/signs and wonders, but it is the very power of God unto salvation, so its the grace of God that saves sinners, and the person of the Holy spirit indwelling us that allows us to live now as we ought!
Some foolishly even go so far to teach and hold that IF we are not seeking and doing tongues/healings/prophesy etc are NOT teaching real gospel!
believe that the lord can and does do special things like this when needed, but the normal course of events is to go to language school!
I would tend to see that like stories read about where missionaries go into new land, and met by tribal chief, saying that in a dream God told him to look out fro men bring word of God to them...
1. Tongues was never gibberish. It was always a real language so basically EVERYBODY who practices it today is not remotely in line with biblical tongues.
2. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that that miracle should continue in every age. NONE. We don't expect men to part seas and rivers today because we know that those were miracles for a specific age for a specific people. That is the way it is with all biblical miracles. Why in the world we don't apply that very clear truth to "tongues" is beyond me.
I have several other points, but that's enough for now.
NO second act of Grace, no "baptism in Holy Ghost" we have to experience either!
problem is that once the door gets openned to Charasmatic doctrines and practices in ANY church assembly, the really bad heretical doctrines sooner or longer come to roost!
Is that eminary Speaking, or....
...you? or maybe a result of both!
Look Luke, if God wanted us to speak in tongues, He can do it. After all, he did cause Baalam's ass to talk. I am not so entrenched in the religious box that I can't think outside of it, supernaturally speaking, and I will never have the audacity to say, "EVERYBODY who practices it today is not remotely in line with biblical tongues." We do not know it there was a difference between tongues of other languages, and tongues of the spirit! I will not quench the possibility of what God can do, if He so desires.
There was a time that I emphatically denounced divorce and remarriage. Then my wife left me, and I met a wonderful, Godly woman and 34 years later; I have ceased accusing those who are divorced and remarried of sinning!
I emphatically denied that prophecy existed until I was in a situation where I was the focal point of, and in need of prophecy, and I now believe God uses others to reach us through that gift too.
So, I am not going to go so far out on the limb as to proclaim tongues simply can't exist. You can do as you want ... but as for me and my house, we will serve the supernatural God to whom nothing is impossible.
Finally, if God wanted to use a man to walk on the water or part the seas, or send a whale of large fish to swallow one of us for not obeying HIm, I say it is not beyond being possible!
We serve a supernatural God, and that means there is literally and figuratively nothing He cannot do! Especially if man is will trust Him to do it!
One hundred years ago, there were staunch believers who said getting a man to the moon would never happen, but we did get there, and it wasn't accomplished without the divine intervention of a supernatural God!
Live in the box if you so choose, Luke, but I don't want to miss anything that is beyond man's way of thinking but not impossible to God!
I serve a God that says nothing is impossible. And I like it that way! Because when it comes down to needing a miracle, I have enough creative faith to see what is possible outside the box.
I too have more that I can add, but I will leave it at that right now! Shalom :applause:
...you? or maybe a result of both!
Look Luke, if God wanted us to speak in tongues, He can do it. After all, he did cause Baalam's ass to talk. I am not so entrenched in the religious box that I can't think outside of it, supernaturally speaking, and I will never have the audacity to say, "EVERYBODY who practices it today is not remotely in line with biblical tongues." We do not know it there was a difference between tongues of other languages, and tongues of the spirit! I will not quench the possibility of what God can do, if He so desires.
There was a time that I emphatically denounced divorce and remarriage. Then my wife left me, and I met a wonderful, Godly woman and 34 years later; I have ceased accusing those who are divorced and remarried of sinning!
I emphatically denied that prophecy existed until I was in a situation where I was the focal point of, and in need of prophecy, and I now believe God uses others to reach us through that gift too.
So, I am not going to go so far out on the limb as to proclaim tongues simply can't exist. You can do as you want ... but as for me and my house, we will serve the supernatural God to whom nothing is impossible.
Finally, if God wanted to use a man to walk on the water or part the seas, or send a whale of large fish to swallow one of us for not obeying HIm, I say it is not beyond being possible!
We serve a supernatural God, and that means there is literally and figuratively nothing He cannot do! Especially if man is will trust Him to do it!
One hundred years ago, there were staunch believers who said getting a man to the moon would never happen, but we did get there, and it wasn't accomplished without the divine intervention of a supernatural God!
Live in the box if you so choose, Luke, but I don't want to miss anything that is beyond man's way of thinking but not impossible to God!
I serve a God that says nothing is impossible. And I like it that way! Because when it comes down to needing a miracle, I have enough creative faith to see what is possible outside the box.
I too have more that I can add, but I will leave it at that right now! Shalom :applause:
I don't see tongues and a situation like that as being analogous. And anyway, I know of no documented cases like that.
What usually happens is not a dream, but something handed down in the tribal culture that points to Christ, as in Peace Child, where the tribes understood Christ's sacrifice through their own custom. See Eternity in Their Hearts by Don Richardson for many such examples. These cases are not miraculous like tongues in Acts 2 were, but are examples of God's providence.
I do not believe that the canon being closed is a valid argument. No where in scripture does it make that case. What is important is the nature of the gifts. Any argument that begins there will be clear and unambiguous.
So you would be saying here that the lord had prepared the people to hear and receive the real Gospel by somehow having that truth expose to them somehow in their native religion? that he laid the groundwork for them to get the real and full Gospel later on?
would say that it does meet the case to show though that the tongues and prophesy NOT given any more, as the bible is now the full and complete revealtion given to us by God, so no modern day Apostles/prophets required either!
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