Speaking in Tongues ... Does YOUR Church Allow it?

[Ed B]

There are a lot of people who used to attend various "full gospel" churches who now attend Baptist churches. As the independent charismatic churches became more and more intrusive (shepherding movement) and unstable (lots of problems with elders and preachers behaving badly), and as Baptist Churches became more comfortable with praying for the sick, contemporary music, and choruses the charismatics who were once Baptist have begun to come home. In some cases I think the draw to charismatic churches was not a draw to speaking in tongues as much as it was an interest in some of the aforementioned things that Baptist used to be afraid to touch. Speaking in tongues was just part of the package.

For example about 30 years ago a lady who went to my parents SBC church was dying of cancer. She was reading James 5:14-15 and foolishly took it literally. So she called the preacher and asked him if he would anoint her with oil, lay hands on her and pray for her healing. He agreed and called the deacons and invited them to accompany him and join in laying hands on her and praying for her. Some deacons went and some didn't. Those who didn't stirred up the congregation and got him fired for being a closet Pentecostal. As is the Texas Baptist tradition a big church split followed.

I know several people who used to be Pentecostal or charismatic who now attend Baptist churches.

 

[ktn4eg]

::

Act 2:5
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Hmmmm, seems like more than "just about every part of the Middle East".

Act 2:9-11
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Didn't know Libya, or Rome, were in the Middle East.
Egypt is a stretch, but it borders the M.E.
Crete is in Europe.

With reference to what I wrote in my post concerning why God used "tongues" (i.e., "foreign" [At least to most {if not all} of the "120"] languages/dialects to proclaim the Gospel message to those who were in attendance at the Pentecost event mentioned in Acts 2: I in no wise intended to preclude people of other language/dialect groups other than those whose home area might have been in some other area here on this planet.

There may have been (and probably were) folks from other places than those in Acts 2:5 ff -- in fact, the latter part of Acts 2:5 does indicate that this was the situation at that particular time (".... of every nation under heaven." [KJV rendering]).

What I was trying to point out was the fact that those 120 "....were all filled with the Holy Ghost (i.e., the Holy Spirit), and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." -- Acts 2:4 (KJV rendering)

IOW, the "tongues" (specific human languages/dialects in use at that particular time) were definitely NOT merely some kind of incomprehensible gibberish worked up by persons under the influence of something other than God.

Rather, what these people (the 120) were speaking were specific languages/dialects that were immediately comprehended by their intended audience(s).

Moreover they were human languages/dialects that their speakers most likely have very little (if any) prior knowledge of these languages' grammar, syntax, sentence structure, or figures of speech that would have been used by such human languages/dialects at the time of the Pentecost event recorded in Acts 2.

This was, in fact, a very specific miracle from God for a very specific time and purpose that has (and most likely) never will be replicated again in this current day and age.

It is my firm belief that the kind of thing (a "sign" gift of the HS) that Acts 2 mentions most likely died out towards the beginning of the last decade of the first century A.D. (c. A.D. 90).

We absolutely have no further need of this specific HS "sign" gift in this day and age because NOW we have everything God wanted to tell us within the pages of the 66 books of the Word of God.

To advocate any other concept than this is, IMHO, to infer that God somehow failed to let the people He created in on what He wants us today to know concerning the most vital message of His perfect Word conveys for any body to truly wants to know: The eternal life-giving power of the Blood of Jesus Christ that was manifested by the only-begotten Son of God's death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

The only time in scripture of tongues being used was at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon the 12 disciples.....

See Acts 11:44_48
And 19:6

 

[prophet]

See Acts 11:44_48
And 19:6

And I Corinthians.

 

[righteousdude2]

Agreed....

And I Corinthians.

There is a thing that many call "Singing in the spirit!" It is apparent that Paul had the ability to sing in both the spirit and the mind! 1 Cor. 14:15states, "I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also..."

And then we have Eph. 5:19, "speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord..." (NIV)

It appears that singing in the Spirit is not as far fetched as many would want us to believe!? :wavey:

 

[Judith]

There is a thing that many call "Singing in the spirit!" It is apparent that Paul had the ability to sing in both the spirit and the mind! 1 Cor. 14:15states, "I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also..."

And then we have Eph. 5:19, "speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord..." (NIV)

It appears that singing in the Spirit is not as far fetched as many would want us to believe!? :wavey:

Paul is rebuking them for speaking, praying, and singing things they do not know what they are saying. He says he will do these things not just in his spirit but also his mind. We are NEVER to speak mindless things. This thing of having some speaking or praying gift that is mindless (they do not know what they are saying) is not of God and those who claim it are deceived and in sin.

I perceive that you are trying to convince the unlearned and weak in faith that this modern day godless Corinthian error is of God and those who do this have some special spiritual connection that others do not and I am uncertain why this is allowed to continue. There is NO special prayer language, no special song language, and no special unknown language from God. The true gift was a real human language that the speaker understood. This all comes from the deceiver not from God and those who do it are puffed up and deceived, and I believe that those who try and promote it as from God will stand some sort of judgment.

 

[prophet]

Thank God for these words:

Psa 95:2
2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving,
and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

Eph 5:19
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Cuz some of us can only make noise outloud, and can only make melody in our heart.

 

[Yeshua1]

:type: I have been talking with Baptist brothers and pastors from around the states [on another forum], and I was totally blown away with the increased number of Southern Baptist churches that, while they do not promote or say tongues is an evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, are now permitting those with the gift of tongues to sit in their fellowship, and to use the gift for pray purposes.

Maybe I am no longer the "Lone Wolf" in this belief that this gift continued to be poured out to those who request it, but, NOT making it a "Deal breaker."

So, in the following poll, where anonymity is a "good thing," please be honest and take the poll, so I can see if this is not just associated with this other group of Baptists, but Baptists in general. And when I say Baptist in general, it is because I think this board is the most definitive one, when it comes to the heartbeat and pulse of the Baptist churches in America and around the world! :flower:

We hold that the Holy spriit might bestow that gift to someone, NOT evidence of ANY Baptism in Holy Ghost, NOt to be used in public assembly, within church, ONLY in private, between them and the Lord, but I see it as not being at all for today!

 

[righteousdude2]

If that is what you want to think...

Paul is rebuking them for speaking, praying, and singing things they do not know what they are saying. He says he will do these things not just in his spirit but also his mind. We are NEVER to speak mindless things. This thing of having some speaking or praying gift that is mindless (they do not know what they are saying) is not of God and those who claim it are deceived and in sin.

I perceive that you are trying to convince the unlearned and weak in faith that this modern day godless Corinthian error is of God and those who do this have some special spiritual connection that others do not and I am uncertain why this is allowed to continue. There is NO special prayer language, no special song language, and no special unknown language from God. The true gift was a real human language that the speaker understood. This all comes from the deceiver not from God and those who do it are puffed up and deceived, and I believe that those who try and promote it as from God will stand some sort of judgment.

...who am I to argue with you. It seems that you have your mind set on one thing, and I see it from a different perspective! I do not believe he is rebuking them. Furthermore, I believe that Paul possessed the gift of tongues, he just didn't push it on anyone, and used his approach to remind the church that there were far better gifts to have than tongues, like LOVE! So, let's leave it at that. At least, we'll have this settled in heaven. Let's just hope we can understand the language used to clear up the different ideas many of us hold dearly too! Bless you Judith! It is so great that we can all express our views of theology and still know we'll get into heaven! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Judith]

...who am I to argue with you. It seems that you have your mind set on one thing, and I see it from a different perspective! I do not believe he is rebuking them. Furthermore, I believe that Paul possessed the gift of tongues, he just didn't push it on anyone, and used his approach to remind the church that there were far better gifts to have than tongues, like LOVE! So, let's leave it at that. At least, we'll have this settled in heaven. Let's just hope we can understand the language used to clear up the different ideas many of us hold dearly too! Bless you Judith! It is so great that we can all express our views of theology and still know we'll get into heaven! :smilewinkgrin:

First off love is not a gift. It is a choice. I agree that Paul had the gift of tongues but it was a real human language. The whole book of Corinthians is a rebuke.
There is simply no such thing as a prayer language from God. Those who claim such are deceiving and being deceived. Also if the modern day false tongues movement was not a pride issue it would never be brought up. It has no purpose at all except to promote false hope. It does not get prayers answered any faster or more often. It does not give new revelation as we have all that is going to be given in scripture. All that tongues of today does is puff up so it is not of God and no my church does not teach or support the false tongues of today.

 

[Yeshua1]

We do not teach that tongues is for this day and age, and it is, indeed, nothing short of heresy to insist that tongues as practices in the Bible are even remotely duplicated today. The stuff that passes for "signs and wonders" today is pure garbage, and not of God. I'm not saying miracles, signs and wonders can't happen. I'm saying that 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of what are claimed to be miracles, signs and wonders are not.

Any SBC church allowing this foolishness needs correction.

I agree with you that the signs and wonders and revealtory gifts were intended for the Apostolic Age itself, as God worked thru His Apsotles to confirm the message of jesus as Saviour/Messiah to both the Jews/Gentiles, but would local church autonomy though require a SBC could be "gfull Gospel" if they so choose?

 

[Judith]

I agree with you that the signs and wonders and revealtory gifts were intended for the Apostolic Age itself, as God worked thru His Apsotles to confirm the message of jesus as Saviour/Messiah to both the Jews/Gentiles, but would local church autonomy though require a SBC could be "gfull Gospel" if they so choose?

There is no such thing as a full goepel. One either gives the gospel or they do not. The claim of such is just another attempt of satan to confuse the church and the world about truth as well as make puffed up claims (pride) which are not true.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is no such thing as a full goepel. One either gives the gospel or they do not. The claim of such is just another attempt of satan to confuse the church and the world about truth as well as make puffed up claims (pride) which are not true.

I agree that there is but One real Gospel, but isn't the truth that a baptist church can teach and practice that error of tongues and prophesy IF they so choose? As under local autonomy of each church?

 

[Judith]

I agree that there is but One real Gospel, but isn't the truth that a baptist church can teach and practice that error of tongues and prophesy IF they so choose? As under local autonomy of each church?

I am not sure what your question has to do with this discussion. What does this have to do with the claim of a full gospel church?

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not sure what your question has to do with this discussion. What does this have to do with the claim of a full gospel church?

a Baptist local church can decide to go full on Charasmatic, due to localautonomy, correct?

 

[prophet]

Most of us know about false "tongues", some of us even know about the Satanic movement behind the scenes, and how the Great Whore is steering Evangelicals back to Momma, through the 'Charismatic Renewal' that began in '67.
But what about the actual gift of tongues?
Do you consider a bilingual prophet (bible teacher) to have this gift?
Do you believe that people, even to this day, can understand a Gospel Witness, who doesn't speak their language , through that gift?

 

[Yeshua1]

Most of us know about false "tongues", some of us even know about the Satanic movement behind the scenes, and how the Great Whore is steering Evangelicals back to Momma, through the 'Charismatic Renewal' that began in '67.
But what about the actual gift of tongues?
Do you consider a bilingual prophet (bible teacher) to have this gift?
Do you believe that people, even to this day, can understand a Gospel Witness, who doesn't speak their language , through that gift?

Believe that the Lord can still grant the gift to a missionary to hear/understand/speak a foreign tongue to him, but will be exceptioanal cases!

NOT normitive for today!

 

[righteousdude2]

Are you....

First off love is not a gift. It is a choice. I agree that Paul had the gift of tongues but it was a real human language. The whole book of Corinthians is a rebuke.
There is simply no such thing as a prayer language from God. Those who claim such are deceiving and being deceived. Also if the modern day false tongues movement was not a pride issue it would never be brought up. It has no purpose at all except to promote false hope. It does not get prayers answered any faster or more often. It does not give new revelation as we have all that is going to be given in scripture. All that tongues of today does is puff up so it is not of God and no my church does not teach or support the false tongues of today.

....speaking from experience? You sound as if you've been in a tongues speaking group and that you have been greatly disappointed or let down. How else would you know that, for instance, speaking in tongues does not get prayers in a faster way?

Did not John say - "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son [sounds like the act of giving, which makes it ?], that whosoever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life."(John 3:16)

And if love isn't a gift, what do we call the love God demonstrated toward mankind by having His Son die on the cross. Is salvation not a gift? And is that not an act of love, which is actually a gift? When someone gives someone else something they didn't expect or deserve, is that not a gift? And is salvation not a gift born our of God's love toward us?

Let me ask you sister ...

Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. (1 John 4:7-8)

I believe that we cannot truly love our neighbors if we don’t love God and understand His love for us; we must have a growing, personal relationship with Him. The bible tells us who God is - His personality and character. It details God’s desire to have fellowship with the people He created through His coming to earth in the person of his Son, Jesus Christ. The world was created because of love! We can deny this marvelous gift or accept it.

This is how God showed his love for us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him. (1 John 4:9) God has given us so much to be thankful for. God created the sky, seas, and land for our enjoyment. He created the plants, animals and fish for our use, and He created human beings in His own image. God created all life because of His great love for us – that is a gift!

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

Love is a gift from God because only something as precious and wonderful as God’s love can help us to love someone who has wronged us. (Matthew 5:38-42)

Love is a gift from God because only God’s love for us can encourage us to love our enemies when they have harmed us. (Matthew 5: 43-44)

There is no better gift you can give others than sharing your love with them. Realizing the wonderful concept of love and how to receive it for ourselves is when we understand the importance of loving our neighbor. Love is the key for living a righteous, peaceful lifestyle. And you will know that you are a child of God, doing His will in your own life, when you help others to receive God’s love for themselves.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

Love is the focus of ALL God’s principles for us. In fact, Jesus Christ did not come to bring religion to the people, but peace and love – the people have created religion and it has caused hatred, bitterness, and dissension among believers. That is not what Christ is all about. God is LOVE. (1 John 4:16)

It is a Christ Ones duty to love his fellow man. That means to put aside differences, turn the other cheek, and to forgive over and over again. Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Romans 13:10)

Judith - me thinks that you are caught in a battle with semantics, and me aso thinks, you may lose this battle, in that I me can't sees how you can't say that God is not love, and all He's given to mankind is out of love. That is not a choice ... it is a gift. Everything from life to forgivness of our sin is a gift! :godisgood:

* The above is taken out of and from the following link - http://www.heavenministries.com/Articles/love_is_a_gift_from_god.htm

 

[righteousdude2]

People who seek after tongues are seeking a sign

Are you not seeking after a sign every time you pray? Is the need to pray and get an answer to our prayer not similar to seeking a sign, or recognition of God's approval? Is the actual answer ot prayer not a "Sign" that God heard your plea and granted it in favor of your request?

Me thinks you are caught up in a semantics thing, and you should really re-think your approach!

 

[righteousdude2]

We agree...

There is no such thing as a full goepel. One either gives the gospel or they do not. The claim of such is just another attempt of satan to confuse the church and the world about truth as well as make puffed up claims (pride) which are not true.

.... there are actually some churches preaching less than the "Full Gospel" message when they selective disregard passages or teachings or theolgy based upon their bais or prejudice.

For instance years ago, I attended a SBC in the heartland of Texas, and noticed that even though the were only one block away from the largest neighborhood of blacks in their city, they had no [nada, zip, nil, ero] black folks in their large, overflowing church!

After the service, when the pastor shook my hand and welcomed me as a guest visitor that day, I thought I'd stir up the pot of contention [okay forgive me for sinning here] and ask where the black folks attended church?

He told me that in their city, the whites had their church, and the blacks theirs. I asked, does that go for Asians and Hispanics too?

By now, he let go of my hand and I felt I was not welcome back in the evening service, or any other service!

What I am saying is simply this, churches like this one were not Full Gospel, as they lacked genuine love all mankind regardless of the color of their skin!

This also goes for those churches that don't allow musical instruments, or denouce healing is for today, or those who no preach that ordaining homosexuals or marrying same sex partners. All of these have selectively ripped out the parts of the Bible that they no longer feel is evident or relevant to them and theirs, and they proceed forward teaching a less than truthful message. Does that make them, for the sake of argument, and hypothetically speaking, a Three-quarters Full Gospel Church? Or, better yet, a [merely] Half Empty Gospel Chruch?

Gee, Judith, it ws fun chatting with you, and finding that we do agree on something, especially when it comes to the churches who are less than Full Gospel!