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Speaking in Tongues: The Need for Caution

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1689Dave

1689Dave

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Yeshua1 said:
The scriptures state that God grants a spiritual gift to all now saved as the Spirt wills, correct? Romans 12:6, distributred to alla s the Spirit wills, not per any man!
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“Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

. We see the laying on of an apostle's hands in Jerusalem (Acts 6:6), Ephesus (Acts 19:1–7), and Samaria (Acts 8:14–17) and throughout Paul’s journeys where he gave the gifts (2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11). Jesus personally sent Ananias, who according to history was one of the original seventy disciples ordained by Him, through whose hands Paul became healed and filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17).
 
Y

Yeshua1

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1689Dave said:
“Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

. We see the laying on of an apostle's hands in Jerusalem (Acts 6:6), Ephesus (Acts 19:1–7), and Samaria (Acts 8:14–17) and throughout Paul’s journeys where he gave the gifts (2 Timothy 1:6; Romans 1:11). Jesus personally sent Ananias, who according to history was one of the original seventy disciples ordained by Him, through whose hands Paul became healed and filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17).
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We also have it where its the Holy Spirit HIMSELG giving to ALl christians at least one spiritual gift, as he so wills! 1 Corinthians 12:11
 
HankD

HankD

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Yeshua1 said:
The scriptures state that God grants a spiritual gift to all now saved as the Spirt wills, correct? Romans 12:6, distributred to alla s the Spirit wills, not per any man!
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Not everyone (even cessasionists) agree with that statement concerning Romans 12:6.They would say that those "gifts" were included in the "gifts" mentioned in Hebrews 2:4 and would cease after that which is perfect arrives.

For them, today in the 21st century those who minister in and to the church are part of the "calling" of the saved (e.g. I feel called to be a missionary) and are equipped by the Spirit of God to answer that call (i.e. missionary, pastor, musician). Yes mostly a semantic difference, just one more thing about which to quibble.

Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
 
Y

Yeshua1

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HankD said:
Not everyone (even cessasionists) agree with that statement concerning Romans 12:6.They would say that those "gifts" were included in the "gifts" mentioned in Hebrews 2:4 and would cease after that which is perfect arrives.

For them, today in the 21st century those who minister in and to the church are part of the "calling" of the saved (e.g. I feel called to be a missionary) and are equipped by the Spirit of God to answer that call (i.e. missionary, pastor, musician). Yes mostly a semantic difference, just one more thing about which to quibble.

Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
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Most who hold to gifts ceasing just mean the sign gifts, as they still see gifts to teach, help, administer etc!
 
R

Rebel1

Active Member
HankD said:
No of course not, we are debating about ONE specific doctrine - the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit.
My feeling is that there are different nomenclature for the outworking of the Holy Spirit.

But let me repeat for you Y:

I don't believe that "speaking in tongues" is an authoritative evidential act of being filled with the Holy Spirit (even assuming it is a proper "gift").

A better evidential witness would be the fruit of the Holy Spirit in one's life which can't be manufactured by the flesh.
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Agree completely with that. I have known some who claimed to speak in tongues whose fruit was lacking or rotten.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
We are speaking only of the charismatic gifts now long gone.
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So is 1 Corinthians 12 ...

  • [1 Corinthians 12:4-11 NASB] 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all [persons.] 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another [various] kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
 
R

Rebel1

Active Member
atpollard said:
So is 1 Corinthians 12 ...

  • [1 Corinthians 12:4-11 NASB] 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all [persons.] 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another [various] kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
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I believe in the continuance of all the spiritual gifts. I can't believe Paul was writing only for the churches/believers of his day. But I do not hold to the Pentecostal view of tongues or the baptism in the HS.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Rebel1 said:
I believe in the continuance of all the spiritual gifts. I can't believe Paul was writing only for the churches/believers of his day. But I do not hold to the Pentecostal view of tongues or the baptism in the HS.
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Given what I have observed about the independent nature of Pentecostal churches, I am not sure that there is such a thing as THE PENTECOSTAL VIEW on anything. They seem to run the range from “Jesus taught that” to “have you stopped taking your meds, again”.

Not too unlike Baptists running the spectrum from protesting Soldier’s funerals to Handling snakes to ‘Reformed Southern Baptists’ to the most liberal “social justice” Baptist Church.
 
R

Rebel1

Active Member
atpollard said:
Given what I have observed about the independent nature of Pentecostal churches, I am not sure that there is such a thing as THE PENTECOSTAL VIEW on anything. They seem to run the range from “Jesus taught that” to “have you stopped taking your meds, again”.

Not too unlike Baptists running the spectrum from protesting Soldier’s funerals to Handling snakes to ‘Reformed Southern Baptists’ to the most liberal “social justice” Baptist Church.
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I meant the traditional or old-line Pentecostal denominations that teach that baptism of the HS is separate from conversion and always initially evidenced by tongues-speaking.
 
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