Speaking in Tongues Volume 3...

[standingfirminChrist]

Hope,

I believe it indeed was a sign gift. The fact that I was speaking in English that which another was speaking in Portugese, yet I did not know the Portugese tongue, would be nothing but a sign gift.

The fact that it happened does not negate it being a sign gift. The pastor heard it, as well as the interpreter. One of them may have had doubts that God still worked in that capacity today. God may have given that to me for their understanding that God was indeed still working in those who would allow His mighty hand to do so in their lives.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Gibberish is untranslatable. Not even God knows what it is.

How do you translate music?

How do you translate emotion?

Explain love.

Eph. 3:19, "and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God

Phil. 4:7, "And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

Ro 8:26,27, "In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."

"the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words." God knows even when we don't.

The peace of God surpassses comprehension yet God knows what it is.

God knows all those things.

 

[Ray Berrian]

standingfirminChrist,

You said, 'Anyone who is wanting to argue the 'tongues of angels' as being the heavenly language, did you ever stop to think that whenever angels appeared and spoke to people on earth, they spoke in that person's native tongue? Not gibberish?'

Just because angels spoke in the language of the people on earth that they ministered to is no indication that in Heaven they do not have a special language with God and the same language with the saints. Do some of the brethren on the board think that the Lord is going to speak in the English language on their first day in Heaven?

I Corinthians 13:1 is more than Pauline hyperbole or as others 'play it off' as symbolic. Angels have a special way of communicating with the Lord, and not in Spanish or English.

Using the word 'gibberish' is very irreligious and disrespectful to the Holy Spirit, especially if our side is correct as to speaking 'in tongues/glossalia.' And I know that many posters to not represent a spiritul 'brain trust, 'especially when you read from Dr. Bruner, Kuyper and other theologians.

.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

ah, but I contend that the statement 'our side is correct' is a false statement. for you see, the Bible says, 'Let God be true, and every man a liar'.

I base the tongues on the Greek and it is a dialect, a language. Not a bunch of nonsensical babbling.

Tongues are for the unbeliever, do you speak in this 'gibberish' in front of the unbelievers everywhere you go?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

gb93433,

That was not my quote. I was quoting someone else and addressed it.

 

[Ray Berrian]

'Get used to seeing the truth in I Corinthians 12 & 14; it will not go away. Glossalia is an estatic language not knowable to human beings, except the Christian who is gifted with the 'interpretation of tongues.'

Some of you need to read what various theologians have to say and not what Uncle John said years ago, and you believed, when he taught you in S.S. class, who has move on to his eternal reward. Just because something was pounded into our heads for years does not make it correct.

I always thought that is why we have teaching Elders/preachers so they can give themselves to studying these things and not make foolish statements as we at times see written down.'

.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I do believe we will be seeing these things more and more. The book of the Revelation says that more and more people will not endure sound teaching and more and more people will become apostate. These things appeal to the flesh and they appeal to the soul. Christian beliefs should be based on Scripture and not on experiential things.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

glossalia is not even a greek word to be found in the Bible, Ray. I will stick with the Word of God instead of Theologians who have inserted presuppositions.

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

I noticed that you responded to 2 posts of mine, but didnt respond to another.

In case you accidently scrolled past it, here it is again...
-------------------------------------------

DHK,

"What sign would continue for 21 centuries. How ludicrous to even think that that would happen."

Here is a gifts of the Spirit list...

"12:4
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

12:5
There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

12:6
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

12:7
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

12:8
for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

12:9
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

12:10
to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

12:11
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

So its ludicrous to think that the gift of tongues will last 21 centuries? (and I assume you would also say healings, miracles, discerning and discerning of spirits as well)

So...in order to be consistant you would then have to also argue that its ludicrous for these gifts of the Spirit...

Wisdom

Knowledge

Faith

...to continue for 21 centuries as well.

"Tongues were for a sign to the Jews. The sign has been removed because its usefulness has been completed."

You believe that all the Jews have embraced Christ and are now born again Messianic Jews?

Grace and peace,

Mike
------------------------------------------

Of course, you may have meant to not respond to it, I dont know. If so thats fine.

I just posted it again in case you accidently missed it.

God bless,

Mike

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by D28guy:
DHK,

I noticed that you responded to 2 posts of mine, but didnt respond to another.

In case you accidently scrolled past it, here it is again...
-------------------------------------------

DHK,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"What sign would continue for 21 centuries. How ludicrous to even think that that would happen."

Here is a gifts of the Spirit list...
</font>[/QUOTE]Try again.
What sign would continue for 21 centuries?
The gift of tongues in particular was a sign to the unbelieving Jews. It was also a sign in other ways. The gift of tongues especially, more than any other gift was a sign.
There were other "sign gifts." Not all the gifts of the Spirit were "sign gifts."
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by D28guy:

You believe that all the Jews have embraced Christ and are now born again Messianic Jews?

No, the entire Book of Ephesians speaks of how we are one in Christ. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile. There is only way to be saved and that is by grace through faith in Christ. There is not one way for the Gentiles and one way for the Jews. Thus there is no need to divide them.
Paul divided up the world in this way:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

So which group do you belong to?
Are you a Jew? A Gentile? or A Christian.
If a Jew becomes saved, he is no longer a Jew, he is a Christian. He is Jew nationally, just as I am a Canadian nationally. So I am a Canadian Christian, and he is a Jewish Christian. The nationality of a person means nothing. We are all one in Christ.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

Hope of Glory,

You said, 'These things appeal to the flesh and they appeal to the soul.'

By your belief the Apostle Paul must have been enjoying this fleshly, soulish experience because he said, 'I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all.' [I Cor. 14:18]. You make it sound like not only Paul but God was hoodwinking the church at Corinth.

The word 'Glossia'--this estatic tongue is repeatedly used, a language that is otherworldly coming from the realm of Almighty God Himself. We even find Paul thanking the Lord for this special gift from God in this verse.

I know it is new to some of you but from this Greek word, 'glossia' has come the explanation of 'tongues' and the 'interpretation of tongues,' The Theology Of Glossolalia.

"A Theology Of The Holy Spirit" is written by Frederick Dale Bruner, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publisher, Grand Rapids, Michigan.

.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by gb93433:
["the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words." God knows even when we don't.

I love this verse. The KJV translates it much more accurately.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

1. It is the Spirit that makes the intercession, not the indiviual.
2. He makes it with "groanings which cannot be uttered!
3. If they cannot be uttered, why do the Charismatics try to do the impossible and try to utter something which is impossible.

Sorry, but I find that absolute foolishness.
DHK

 

[Hope of Glory]

Paul was practicing biblical tongues, not the ecstatic, charismatic, fleshly "signs" being practiced today.

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

You said, 'If they cannot be uttered, why do the Charismatics try to do the impossible and try to utter something which is impossible.'

You are actually asking a question above.

Since there are many of us who do not have the 'gift of tongues' our prayers go before God and the Holy Spirit intercedes when we feel we cannot fully express our inner thoughts and feelings toward the Lord we love. I think it is somewhat like an earthly father who understands the struggle that a child has in fully expressing himself or herself. A mother seems almost intuitively to know what the child is trying to say or what the child wants.

From the people I have talked to--they feel--that this special utterance to God in private prayer,{tongues} expresses the exact desires of their hearts. I cannot speak from experience, but this is what they have told me with great, personal confidence.'

.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, DHK.

I have also wondered why they use that verse as saying it is the tongues and yet they utter these groanings that are unutterable. Amazing!!

BTW, I also think the KJV more accurately translates that verse.

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

"Try again.
What sign would continue for 21 centuries?
The gift of tongues in particular was a sign to the unbelieving Jews. It was also a sign in other ways. The gift of tongues especially, more than any other gift was a sign.
There were other "sign gifts." Not all the gifts of the Spirit were "sign gifts."

Could you share with me where in the passage I gave you that God differentiates in some way regarding the gifts. When does He tell us that these gifts are temporary "sign" gifts, while those over there are gifts that will continue through the entire church age.

I cant find anywhere in that passage...or any other for that matter...where God says anything like that.

Here is the passage in question...

"12:4
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

12:5
There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

12:6
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

12:7
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

12:8
for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

12:9
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

12:10
to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

12:11
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

I just cant seem to find anywhere in there, or anywhere else, where Almighty God lets us know that some are only for 50 years or so, then they will vanish, but the others will continue on through the entire church age.

And then when I see that people have been speaking in tongues, prophesying, and experienceing miracles for 2000 years now, I put 2 and 2 together and come to a very obvious conclusion.

Peace,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

I said...

You believe that all the Jews have embraced Christ and are now born again Messianic Jews?

And you said...

No, the entire Book of Ephesians speaks of how we are one in Christ. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile.

Then why do YOU keep saying that tongues are "a sign to unbelieving Jews!"

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth now.

Mike

 

[Hope of Glory]

No, he's not, but you refuse to read what he's saying.

We are living in the age of faith and grace. We are to walk by faith and not by sight.

 

[D28guy]

Hope of Glory,

"We are living in the age of faith and grace. We are to walk by faith and not by sight."

Huh???

Why in the world would the truth that we "walk by faith, and not by sight" in any way contradict the Spiritual gift of tongues being for today?

Blessings,

Mike