Speaking in Tongues Volume 4...

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Some people feel that 'tongues' are not always from the Lord.

The Biblical gift of tongues is never of the Lord in this day and age. It ceased in the first century. Those who claim to have it are deceived and are deceiving themselves.

What about Christians who use their tongue to bad mouth the pastor or tell half-truths about he or his family causing division within the church family--the family of God?

Are you purposely drawing a false dichotomy between the ability to speak in a tongue (one's own mother tongue like English) as any two-year old can do, and the gift of tongues a gift of the Holy Spirit which ceased in the first century. If you have a problem with mouthing off at your pastor then you have a serious spiritual problem that needs to be made right.

Speaking evil of he brethren happens infinitely more times that a nut who fakes have this Divine gift from the Godhead.

Both are evil. Sin is sin in God's sight. The consequence of the latter may be more severe since it is possible that demons may be involved.

It seems Christians should learn to control their own tongue/language first, before seeking other 'gifts of the Spirit.' Paul says, '. . . desire spiritual gifts.' [I Corinthians 14:1b].

Controlling your own tongue has nothing to do with the Biblical gift of speaking in foreign languages (speaking in tongues). You have made a false dichotomy, in which you are only deliberately clouding the issue.

Atestring said,
'Edifying ones self is important.
I cannot love my neighbor as myself unless I first love myself. Would it be selfish to love myself?
Would it be wrong to be "STRONG IN THE LORD AND IN THE POWER OF HIS MIGHT?
Is it wrong to build up yourself in your most Holy Faith praying in the Holy Ghost?
A chain is no stronger than it's weakest link.
I as a link in God's kingdom have a responsiility to be edified( built up)
To not be built up would be selfish!'

And what does that have to do with the subject of tongues? Absolutely nothing! One is built up in the faith by the study of the Word, by the hearing of the Word.
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

Ephesians 4:11-14 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

As the above passage shows edification is contingent upon doctrine. Without being saturated with the doctrine of God's Word you will never be edified. Tongues have nothing to do with it.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHK,

You said, 'The Biblical gift of tongues is never of the Lord in this day and age. It ceased in the first century. Those who claim to have it are deceived and are deceiving themselves.'

We are going to need a book, chapter, and verse for your idea, so we can refute it. Where in the N.T. does it say that 'the gifts of the Spirit' ended at the close of the first century? And don't forget to give us a verse.

The 'gifts of the Holy Spirit' are never evil or sinful, but those who believe they are not for this age, perceive them as being wrong.

Demons are only interested in destroying the works and activities of the Holy Spirit in the church not building them up in the eyes of the people.

People in congregations usually do not 'mouth off the pastor' as you suggested they go behind his back and tear him down, sometimes, unwittingly.

I was just saying that Christian should watch what they are talking about among the saved and perhaps especially among the unsaved people. The proper use of the tongue--words, is very important in being a good Christian. If God wants to use your voice with the 'gift of tongues' or the 'interpretation of tongues' that is given at His discretion. [I Corinthians 12:11].

I was not 'deliberately clouding the issue' only making a couple of observations about church people.

Edification often has nothing to do with doctrine. To prove my point which doctrines should we all believe--the doctrines of Arminianism or Calvinism.

Edification has to do with the spiritual strength we gather as we study His precious Word--the Bible, as we encourage one another in the Lord, as we witness to the lost, give to a missionary in his need and as we pray to God the Father. There are no end of ways in which God can grow us up in Christ by edifying our inner soul.

No connection was being made from Atestring and my post. I merely like everything that he said in his posting.

Your mindreading techniques are as rusty as an old barn hinge, and your presupposition of 'tongues' coming to a conclusion at the end of the first century is not documented in Scripture. It is a poor attempt to discredit the working of God the Holy Spirit.

.

DHK said, 'What about Christians who use their tongue to bad mouth the pastor or tell half-truths about he or his family causing division within the church family--the family of God?

Are you purposely drawing a false dichotomy between the ability to speak in a tongue (one's own mother tongue like English) as any two-year old can do, and the gift of tongues a gift of the Holy Spirit which ceased in the first century. If you have a problem with mouthing off at your pastor then you have a serious spiritual problem that needs to be made right.

quote:Speaking evil of he brethren happens infinitely more times that a nut who fakes have this Divine gift from the Godhead.

Both are evil. Sin is sin in God's sight. The consequence of the latter may be more severe since it is possible that demons may be involved.

quote:It seems Christians should learn to control their own tongue/language first, before seeking other 'gifts of the Spirit.' Paul says, '. . . desire spiritual gifts.' [I Corinthians 14:1b].

Controlling your own tongue has nothing to do with the Biblical gift of speaking in foreign languages (speaking in tongues). You have made a false dichotomy, in which you are only deliberately clouding the issue.

quote:Atestring said,
'Edifying ones self is important.
I cannot love my neighbor as myself unless I first love myself. Would it be selfish to love myself?
Would it be wrong to be "STRONG IN THE LORD AND IN THE POWER OF HIS MIGHT?
Is it wrong to build up yourself in your most Holy Faith praying in the Holy Ghost?
A chain is no stronger than it's weakest link.
I as a link in God's kingdom have a responsiility to be edified( built up)
To not be built up would be selfish!'

And what does that have to do with the subject of tongues? Absolutely nothing! One is built up in the faith by the study of the Word, by the hearing of the Word.
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

Ephesians 4:11-14 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

As the above passage shows edification is contingent upon doctrine. Without being saturated with the doctrine of God's Word you will never be edified. Tongues have nothing to do with it.'

 

[standingfirminChrist]

please forgive me for cutting in here, but I find it funny that you two are still butting heads over this issue. It is plain neither is going to accept what the other has to say about tongues. After what? 62 pages now, and you still have not convinced each other. lol

My suggestion? Agree to disagree. Is the argument that which will edify the Body of Christ? We must concentrate on that which will draw people in these last days to Christ.

Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

DHK, forgive me Brother, if I was out of line.

Love ya both in the Lord!
Brother Ron

 

[D28guy]

DHK,

"Sweet loving people that do good works are not necessarily saved."

Of course not. One must embrace Christ to be saved,

"To take it one step further: Just because a sweet loving person who does good works attends an evangelical church where he or she speaks in tongues does not mean that he or she is saved."

I agree completly.

"Speaking in tongues is no guarantee of salvation, and is not an evidence of salvation."

If it is the legitimate gift of the Holy Spirit it is both a guarantee and evidence of salvation. If it is a counterfiet tongues than I agree with you.

"You are not God, and cannot tell who is saved and who is not."

My statement was a general statement. I would think that even a grade schooler could have picked up on that. Of course in any fellowship its possible for there to be some lost "church members"

But regarding your statement that...

"You are not God, and cannot tell who is saved and who is not."

...why are you turning around and declaring that some of those who speak in tongues are demon possesed?

I said...

"And along with that, we find the biblically identified gifts of the Spirit...all of them...in evidence."

And you said...

Never seen that evidence yet.

You've never even visited a fellowship with the sign gifts in evidence? Then why dont you visit some of these pentecostal and charismatic fellowships sometime. I believe you will be genuinely blessed if you do.

You said that theology should be based on the word of God.

I said...

"Thats my whole point!

The scriptures identify certain gifts of the Spirit. They are individually identified and described. In the Charismatic and Pentecostal meetings we see them in evidence.

In more "traditional" churchs, people go to great and convoluted lengths to explain them away."

And you now say...

Perhaps they are not explained away but solid Biblical evidence is given to show that they have ceased.

I have yet to see any of this "solid biblical evidence" you speak of. All I have seen is a lot of "twist"..."mangle"..."distort"...etc.

"But, as I have posted above, that evidence is ignored, and goes unrefuted.

The biblical "evidence" that is being ignored and unrefuted is our evidence. The "biblical evidence" on your side doesnt exist. It is biblical "scripture twisting".

You...

Give credible evidence that the general phenomena of the Charismatic phenomena of today is what was happening in the Bible.

Me...

Its been done more times than I can count, by myself and many others, on these 3+ volumes of this topic.

You...

"I haven't seen any that is Biblical yet."

I know you havent. And its been shown over and over and over again. Its a shame you havent "seen" it yet.

"We base theology on the Word of God, not experience."

I wish that were true, regarding your side.

The evidence that I keep hearing is "I spoke in tongues therefore it is of God." My answer to that is: "Phooey!"

I know thats your answer. But regarding the 1st part of that statement, you have been given much more evidence that than. You have been given reams and reams of biblical evidence.

Regarding the 2nd part of your statement, Jesus kept proclaiming Himself to be the Messiah, and the Pharisees answer to that...over and over again...was "Phooey".

Me...

"We advocate the gift of speaking in tongues.

Sometimes tongues of unlearned earthly foreign languages...as described in the scriptures.

You...

"But this doesn't happen today.

So...you personally know and can understand every language spoken on earth, and therefore can know that it has never happened?

Me...

Sometimes tongues of an unlearned heavenly foreign language, as described in the scriptures...

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, if I have not love, I have become sounding brass or clanging cymal"

"For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. For no one understands him. However, in the spirit he speaks mysteries".

You...

" Like I said--gibberish--not a gift at all."

So...you personally know every heavenly language, even languages that might be spoken by angels in heaven, and you know that this being spoken here on earth is "gibberish" being "made up" by the speaker?

I quoted these passages of scripture.

""Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, if I have not love, I have become sounding brass or clanging cymal"

"For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. For no one understands him. However, in the spirit he speaks mysteries".

And you now say...

You quoted two verses. So what! Without your explanation they mean what they say.

Praise God I think he's getting it!

Yes brother...they do mean what they say!

That there is indeed a "tongues of Angels", men can miraculously speak those tongues. When one speaks that tongue he would be speaking to God. No one else around him will understand. And he is speaking mysteries.

"You have only proved my point, because I know what they mean."

So...they mean something different than what they say?

Me...

I cant recall anyone on these boards advocating speaking by means of the gift of "speaking in gibberish".
We are advocating the gift of tongues as described in Gods scriptures.

You...

"But that is not what you practice--not in any of your churches."

You have personally been in every one of "our" churchs?

Earlier you had said that you had never seen any evidence that tongues are spoken in our churchs...indicating that you have never been to one.

Now you say tongues are never practiced in any of our churchs...indicating that you have been in every meeting ever held at all of our churchs and can make such an all inclusive statement.

Thats pretty impressive.

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Brian,

Mike, you bring up "speaking mysteries unto God" as a positive thing.

Because the scriptures speak of it positively, except to say that the more profitable way is to have an interpretation in a gathered assembly.

"Think that idea through once. Think about the thought of speaking something myterious to the ONE who knows everything."

God apparently enjoys it, and He must like the fact that it blesses His child who has been gifted in that way. Who am I to tell God what He can or cannot do with His gifts?

What is a mystery?

Something not known or completly understood.

"A mystery is something unknown to the hearer but not the speaker. If a child knows which one of his siblings stole money from the parents, he knows a mystery that the parents don't know. He can choose to tell the parents of the mystery or not, but he knows what the mystery is. The parents do not know the mystery until they are told. Now, with that in mind, Can you truely speak a mystery to God??"

He is speaking mysteries to the ones hearing him speak in tongues with no interpretation.

"No, you can't and Paul was rebuking what was going on with "Tongues" by using this example."

No God wasnt.

14:1
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

There is simply no rebuke there.

"14:3
But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Again, not even the hint of a rebuke.

I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

There is no rebuke there. Both tongues in an assembly for the edification of all, and a personal prayer language for personal edification, are identified as 100% legitimate. Along with that the point is made that to be interpreted is more profitable in a gathered assembly.

More...

"14:13
Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

14:15
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Clearly, both are perfectly acceptable.

"14:16
Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?

14:17
For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Clearly, the one praying in tongues personally is giving thanks well, but its not best for a gathered assembly.

In both passages, there is absolutly no rebuke there. Both tongues in an assembly for the edification of all, and a personal prayer language for personal edification, are identified as 100% legitimate. The rebuke must be read into it by those who are distressed by this gift of the Spirit, for some odd reason.

Along with the complete legitimacy of both forms of this gift, the the point is made that to be interpreted is more profitable in a gathered assembly.

"Paul was speaking in a negative tone."

Only in the sense that the more profitable way is for the tongues to be interpreted in a gathered assembly.

"He continued that tone and rebuked those who were speaking in tongues to self-edify or better, who after speaking in uninterpreted tongues were edified."

He simply never did that. Its just not there. I just quoted the passages of scripture. No rebuke exists in these passages of Gods scriptures.

"Gifts are NEVER to edify ourselves,..."

14:1
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

14:2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

Not even the tiniest hint of a rebuke.

"thus this statement is in the negative as well. 1 Cor. 12-14 are much easier if you understand the rebuking quality that they were written in. The Corinth church was a mess and a disgrace to Christians and Paul was not trying to praise them he was trying to fix them."

Absolutly true. And there is much to rebuke the Corinthians for. Sexual immorality, horrible behavior during the Lords supper, etc. But there is no rebuke directed towards anyone speaking in tongues as a personal prayer language, and being edified by that.

The admonishment was given that the more profitable use of this gift in a gathered assembly is for it to be interpreted.

God bless,

Mike

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by D28guy:

"Speaking in tongues is no guarantee of salvation, and is not an evidence of salvation."

[qb]

If it is the legitimate gift of the Holy Spirit it is both a guarantee and evidence of salvation. If it is a counterfiet tongues than I agree with you.

There is no such thing as "legitimate" speaking of tongues for today. The gift ceased in the first century. Consequently what goes on today in the name of tongues is bogus--all of it.

"You are not God, and cannot tell who is saved and who is not."

...why are you turning around and declaring that some of those who speak in tongues are demon possesed?

You only quoted me in part, taking what I said out of context. Indeed some people who do speak in tongues speak in tongues as a result of being demon possessed of the devil. That is why I asked or made the statement that you cannot know for sure who is not saved and who is. If those that are Hindus, Voodoo-worshipers, etc. speak in tongues as a result of demon-possession (and they do), then it is very probable that some of your "unsaved" members do the same. Others may speak in tongues, having been oppressed by the devil. It is not a gift of the Holy Spirit.

I said...
"And along with that, we find the biblically identified gifts of the Spirit...all of them...in evidence." And you said...

Never seen that evidence yet.

You've never even visited a fellowship with the sign gifts in evidence? Then why dont you visit some of these pentecostal and charismatic fellowships sometime. I believe you will be genuinely blessed if you do.

I am so surprised at the Charismatics on here that presume to know all about my life. If you haven't noticed yet I call them false prophets. Yes, I have been to Charismatic Churches.
Yes, I have seen people speak in the modern day gibberish. (never in Biblical tongues)
You don't even listen to the countless of former Charismatics that voice their testimonies on this board anyway, why should mine make any difference? What I have seen is not of God at all. As I suspected all along it is carnal, of the flesh, and possibly influenced directly by Satan himself.

You said that theology should be based on the word of God.

Absolutely. It was a Charismatic leader on TBN that prayed: "Oh Lord may we dispense with doctrine." He was sacrificing doctrine on the altar of unity. Charismatics have no choice but to do away with doctrine because the Charismatic movement (pushing ahead the ecumenical movement) transcends so many different denominations--all havinng different denominations. So which ones are you willing to give up for the sake of unity?

I said...
"Thats my whole point!

The scriptures identify certain gifts of the Spirit. They are individually identified and described. In the Charismatic and Pentecostal meetings we see them in evidence.

In more "traditional" churchs, people go to great and convoluted lengths to explain them away."

They are not evidenced. I have shown that to you quite clearly. And you refuse to believe the evidence that I give to you. I will present some of it again:
1. Acts 5:16--The gift of healing. No one has the Biblical gift of healing as demonstrated in this verse, where ALL that came out of ALL the cities round about Jerusalem were Healed ALL of therm; EVERYONE.
No so-called faith healer would dare walk into a hospital and go up and down the corridors and heal all that are in a hospital where the sick are because he can't. The gift of healing has ceased. If it hasn't this would be readily seen in our society as it was in the first century, but it isn't.

2. If the gift of tongues was given today as it was in the first century missionaries would not have to study to go to foreign mission fields. But they do, even the Charismatic ones. That in itself proves it to be wrong. I could exegete the entire chapter of 1Cor.14 and show you how it is wrong, but to keep it brief, that point alone shows you it is not for today. The gift has ceased, because it is evidently not in use today. God is not giving the gift of speaking in foreign languages commonly to believers today. It is not a gift any longer to the local churches. It doesn't happen. It is obvious.
3. Along with that gift the gift of interpretation is no longer in practice.
4. Neither do we see the Biblical gifts of prophecy or the word of knowledge unless you are willing to count people in like Mary Eddy Baker, and Joseph Smith, even Mohammed.
The gifts are obviously not for today.
But you don't listen to evidence do you?

Perhaps they are not explained away but solid Biblical evidence is given to show that they have ceased.

[qb]

I have yet to see any of this "solid biblical evidence" you speak of. All I have seen is a lot of "twist"..."mangle"..."distort"...etc.

You will have to be more honest with yourself. Who does the twisting and perverting of Scripturre??

"But, as I have posted above, that evidence is ignored, and goes unrefuted.

The biblical "evidence" that is being ignored and unrefuted is our evidence. The "biblical evidence" on your side doesnt exist. It is biblical "scripture twisting".

I have twisted nothing, and I doubt if you can point to any verse which I have done so. Where is your proof?

Give credible evidence that the general phenomena of the Charismatic phenomena of today is what was happening in the Bible.

Its been done more times than I can count, by myself and many others, on these 3+ volumes of this topic.

And yet you can't come up with a solid valid Biblical argument why tongues are for today, when the Bible specifically says they have ceased. They were a sign. The sign has been taken out of the way.

"I haven't seen any that is Biblical yet."

I know you havent. And its been shown over and over and over again. Its a shame you havent "seen" it yet.

Because you haven't given it. Experience is not evidence. Anecdotal "evidence" doesn't count for much. You have no Scriptural proof.

"We base theology on the Word of God, not experience."

I wish that were true, regarding your side.

That is about all that I have presented to you. In the course of these pages I have expounded the entire chapter of 1Cor.14; 1Cor.13:8-13; 1Cor.12:1-4; 12-28-31; 13:1-3, among many other Scriptures. In return I have gotten rationalization, and experience.

The evidence that I keep hearing is "I spoke in tongues therefore it is of God." My answer to that is: "Phooey!"

I know thats your answer. But regarding the 1st part of that statement, you have been given much more evidence that than. You have been given reams and reams of biblical evidence.

Then where is it? I would like to see it--in its proper context.
I'll tackle the rest of you're post later, the Lord willing.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

DHk,

You like to link tongues with the Islamic religion.
This faith in a non-Christian religion and is totally out of the picture.

This is like associating your family heritage with Russians, Chinese, Koreans or from a national origin on the continent of Africa. Your parents gave you your national background so these other nations have nothing to do with you background genetically.

So too, with other world religions; they have nothing to do with Jesus and our faith. I guess it is just another febble attempt to smear good people of God who are not in your limited sect/group/ or denomination.

By our 'heard nosed' approach to other Christian beliefs you lead me to believe you are in an independent sect, with very restrictive views of other Christians.

Regards,
Ray

 

[tamborine lady]

James 3-5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

In light of the scripture above, it is amazing to me that some proffessing Christians can tell others that they are probably demon pessessed, and call some of the gifts of the spirit
"gibberish", and yet still profess that they are absolutely right!!

Why do some people have to be right at all costs? Why do they call others all manner of names and make demeaning remarks and still proclaim "I alone am right in this matter"

Reminds me of these men:

Luke 18-10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


What has this world come to when we sling nasty remarks at other Christians and take no thought at all about the consequences?


He who readeth let him understand!!

Selah,

Tam

*********************************************

I just wanted you all to know that I am well aware that this post has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, but it DOES have a lot to do with people who are posting here.

The ones that are pompous and puffed up and always have to be right, at all costs!!

Also, that to call another Christan demonic is a very grave sin!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Also, that to call another Christan demonic is a very grave sin!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

Please understand correctly Tam, I have never called anyone on this board demonic. I have said that speaking in tongues may have a demonic source. I have said that some unsaved (even in evagelical churches) many be demon possessed. I have said that some saved may be demon oppressed when speaking in tongues. All of that is true. But I never made any of it personal. I did not refer to anyone on this board. I also said that for most it is a psychological high, and not a gift of the Spirit.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
DHk,

You like to link tongues with the Islamic religion.
This faith in a non-Christian religion and is totally out of the picture.

Speaking in tongues, as you have defined it--speaking in an ecstatic language, is common in pagan religions, false cults, religions such as Islam, Voodooism, Hinduism, Mormonism, ets. Speaking in ecstatic tongues has always been commoon among pagans. That is why Paul warned the Corinthians about their pagan past 1Cor.12:2. They were carried away in speaking in ecstatic tongues when worshiping dumb idols. Now the Charismatic movmement has brought the pagan practice of speaking in ecstatic tongues into the realm of Christianity where it never was in the first place. It is purely a pagan practice. It transcends all religions--pagan and otherwise. That is why it is so popular.

The true Biblical gift of speaking in foreign languages ceased at the end of the first century. This Biblical gift cannot be duplicated to any great extent in the world today. Why? Because the gift has ceased.
DHK

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Also, that to call another Christan demonic is a very grave sin!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

Please understand correctly Tam, I have never called anyone on this board demonic. I have said that speaking in tongues may have a demonic source. I have said that some unsaved (even in evagelical churches) many be demon possessed. I have said that some saved may be demon oppressed when speaking in tongues. All of that is true. But I never made any of it personal. I did not refer to anyone on this board. I also said that for most it is a psychological high, and not a gift of the Spirit.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Another case in which the truth must be stretched to "prove" what they are saying.

No one on here has said anything about anyone "probably" being demon possessed. (I prefer to use the word "demonized" to represent both the unsaved who are possessed and the saved who are demonically influenced.)

I specifically have said that I believe it is possible for God to grant you something, even if it's not part of his plan. Just like the children of Israel who wanted manna, even when it was God's plan that they eat manna.

There have been examples of those in churches actually speaking foreign languages, which would be the biblical definition of "tongues", and there were so-called "interpreters" praising God; but, when those tapes were played back, what the speaker was doing was cursing God.

I personally have a friend whose dad was visiting him. His dad had brought a friend, and they visited my friend's Charismatic church. This guy got up and started speaking in tongues, the "interpreter" praised God. The dad's friend said, "That's not what he's saying; he's speaking the language of my country, and he's cursing God".

Sadly, my friend's attitude was that it was too bad that one bad event caused his dad and his friend to "give up on God".

Tongues were given as a sign to the unbelieving, yet every time that it has been witnessed by linguists and/or recorded, it has been complete gibberish, or has been cursing God.

So, although I think it's possible that someone somewhere my recieve the biblical gift of tongues, I've never seen it in evidence, and neither has anyone who studies such things.

 

[tamborine lady]

There is no such word as gibberish in the bible.

There is no language that God calls gibberish, so there;s no need to use it here.

Peace,

Tam

 

[standingfirminChrist]

gib·ber·ish Audio pronunciation of "gibberish" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jbr-sh)
n.

1. Unintelligible or nonsensical talk or writing.
2.
1. Highly technical or esoteric language.
2. Unnecessarily pretentious or vague language.

[Probably from gibber, to speak unintelligibly (of imitative origin) + -ish.]

[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

[D28guy]

standingfirminChrist,

"Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

Tam said that there is no such word as gibberish in the bible, not the dictionary.

From her post...

There is no such word as gibberish in the bible.

Mike

 

[Hope of Glory]

You are quite correct: The Bible talks only about other real languages, and not the gibberish that so many espouse.

 

[tamborine lady]

James 3-5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.


No matter how many ways you people try to dance thru the raindrops without getting wet, you are just showing your ignorance by trying to turn that scripture back on us!

Ya'll are the ones in error, and you are so blind you can't see it.

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[Rev. Lowery]

Just a question The Bible says prophesy is a greater gift than tongues. Then there is the gift of healing and raising of the dead. The Apostles all had these gifts because of the Holy Ghost. Why then if the gifts of the Holy Spirit are among us today do we only have one gift given. You would think out of the millions of Christians around the world at least 1 person would posses at least one of the other gifts of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Those are easier to verify.

 

[tamborine lady]

Originally posted by Rev. Lowery:
Just a question The Bible says prophesy is a greater gift than tongues. Then there is the gift of healing and raising of the dead. The Apostles all had these gifts because of the Holy Ghost. Why then if the gifts of the Holy Spirit are among us today do we only have one gift given. You would think out of the millions of Christians around the world at least 1 person would posses at least one of the other gifts of the Holy Ghost.

The Lord has used me at different times in at least 7 of the gifts of the Spirit. Tongues is the least of these, but some people get hung up on the little things.

Like people straining at tongues and trying to prove that they don't exist,and they forget to ask about the other gifts that are also alive and well

Peace,

Tam

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:
The Lord has used me at different times in at least 7 of the gifts of the Spirit. Tongues is the least of these, but some people get hung up on the little things.

Like people straining at tongues and trying to prove that they don't exist,and they forget to ask about the other gifts that are also alive and well

Peace,

Tam

Gift of healing? (as per Acts 5:16)
gift of miracles?
raising the dead?
drinking deadly poison?