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Speaking in Tongues- What is it?
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Boy, you are just not capable of seeing are you....again the gifts are not temporal & there is no scripture that testifys to it.
"Are you resisting the Holy Spirit"
is not a refutation, but rather a personal attack--against the rules--which, again, should be dealt with. When will you stop with this?
Dr. Walter
New Member
I have shown that none but the Apostles exercised such gifts in the first six chapters of Acts. Can you find an exception?
In Acts chapter six after laying on of the apostles hands do we have an account of anyone else exercising such gifts and that was by those on whom the apostolic hands were laid upon.
Paul conveyed such sign gifts through laying on his hands (Acts 19:6) and told Timothy that it was through the laying on of his hands that he received such gifts. He wrote the churches at Rome and told them he wanted to communicate to them spiritual gifts (Rom. 1:11).
Such gifts are said to the particular signs of the apostolic office (2 Cor. 12:12) and they are transmitted through the laying on of apostolic hands to others.
The Church at Corinth was founded by Paul and visited by Paul on other occassions and so that can explain how they received such gifts.
Paul tells this church in regard to spiritual gifts that the gift of tongues will cease of itself (I Cor. 13:8 middle voice) before the revelatory gifts of prophecy and knowledge ceased.
Paul tells this church the exact and precise scriptural disign God has for the gift of tongues and it is not for personal edification or use in the churches (1 Cor. 14:19-23) but as a sign to unbelieving Jews. Paul quotes the scripture that predicted this gift and what the consequence would be if they rejected this "sign" - Isa. 28:12-15.
When the apostolic office died out so did the ability to convey these signs of an apostle (2 Cor. 12:12) through the laying on of apostolic hands. When those who had received these sign gifts from the apostles died, so did the sign gifts.
Most of the apostles had died by the time Hebrews 2;3-4 was written and there the writer looks back upon these sign gifts as something identified with the apostles and for the most part had ceased already:
Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Today we have "lying" signs and wonders (2 Thes. 2:9) which Jesus forewarned us about (Mt. 25:24). Just as God confirmed the TRUTH by signs and wonders and miracles, now Satan confirms ERROR by signs and wonders and miracles.
How can you tell the difference. Listen to the doctrines that those exercising these gifts are teaching. Every single Pentecostal prophet has violated the tests of prophesy (Deut. 13:1-5; 18:20-22; 1 Cor. 14:37-38; 1 Jn. 4:1,6). The whole modern Pentecostal movement was begun by such prophets. The spirit of "error" is the spirit conveying these gifts today.
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glfredrick
New Member
I disagree that there are no persons who, on occaision pray for and see miraculous healing. I have seen healing after prayer -- sometimes things that are impossible. It is just not quite as spectacular and public as is often presented in Pentecostal circles. I don't see the miracle healers of today's world as actually having the gift they profess, or if they do have it they are sure not using it the way they ought, for we have hospitals crammed with sick and dying persons that remain un-healed.
I see no end to the giving of spiritual gifts, even the spectacular ones, but I also do not see those gifts being used in Scripture as loosely (and for personal gain) as I do in certain circles today. I have friends who have the true gift of tongues. They seemingly learn a language by simply speaking it, and they use their gift in the service of world missions. I know people who have the gift of giving, and I've been (PTL) the recipient of some of their gifting from time-to-time. In fact, I probably wouldn't be here today if not for some of those gifted people that God used at precisely the right moment to help a poor starving seminary student feed his family. We don't get to watch the people with the true gifts perform on television in front of packed stadiums... But God uses them in isolated cases to advance the kingdom and further the gospel, just as always.
Dr. Walter
New Member
2 Cor. 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
If such things are the signs of an apostle, how can anyone argue they are the common property of believers? If that were the case then how could they be "signs" of the apostolic office if every child of God possessed these in the same sense?
We have plenty of Biblical evidence that the apostles did convey such gifts to the common believer through the laying on of their hands:
Ac 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch.
Ac 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Ac 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
2 Cor. 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
If such things are the signs of an apostle, how can anyone argue they are the common property of believers? If that were the case then how could they be "signs" of the apostolic office if every child of God possessed these in the same sense?
We have plenty of Biblical evidence that the apostles did convey such gifts to the common believer through the laying on of their hands:
Ac 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch.
Ac 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Ac 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
2Ti 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
2 Cor. 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Dr. Walter
New Member
May I ask you how you know that such are not "lying" signs (2 Thes. 2:9; Mt. 24:24)? How do you test the spirit behind them?
Simple! Do they further the Gospel or not? Do they cause the recipients to declare that Jesus is Lord?
I don't disagree with this brother. I believe in a God that heals, and have seen God heal. Today he heals primarily as an answer to prayer. There is no such thing as "faith-healers." Neither is there no such thing as "the gift of healing," today.
Agreed.
But it wasn't given supernaturally, was it? William Carey never claimed to have the gift of tongues. He didn't believe it was for today. Carey was only a cobbler, one who repaired shoes. He was self taught. He went to India, against the will of his church, and there translated the Bible, or portions thereof into 44 different languages. He never claimed to have the gift of tongues. But God did give him a talent which he did use.
God gives each of us talents and abilities that He expects us to use. But they are not on par with the supernatural gifts of the Spirit described in 1Cor.12-14.
glfredrick
New Member
Because in large part they were not "signs." God was asked. God answered. God was praised. No one knew but the ones acting, praying, and seeing. Oh, and there is no "every time" nonesense. The healing is nothing more or nothing less that expressed in Scripture. Asking God in Jesus name, and waiting to see if He would or would not bring healing. When He did, there was much cause for praise, and His kingdom was advanced. No one "profited," no one gained fame, no one helped, save for the faith of those involved and the life of the one healed.
Same for the giving and the speaking... These are true ministers of the gospel, not showy, public, persons looking for self-gain.
It is not that it could happen....it can "All things are possible from God. It is the strangulation of the possibilities that is disconcerting. In 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 it "QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT. Despise not prophesying. Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good. Sound advise from Scripture to be sure.
Now the Spirit came upon people in this matter of prophesy & if they did not respond or if others discouraged them from responding then that quenched the Spirit.
Dr. Walter
New Member
The TRUTH of the gospel is a good place to start. However, can truly saved persons be deceived? Can lost people acknowledge certain truths?
I am not talking about God healing people. I am talking about those who claim to have the gifts of healing, prophecy, tongues, miracles, signs and wonders.
Where is the Scriptural evidence for this? Can you verify it, or is it just your imaginative philosophy?
BTW, do your beliefs line up with your church's statement of faith?
You said:
What do you mean by this statement? Where in Scripture does the Spirit come upon a person, and if they do not respond or if others discourage them from responding then the Holy Spirit is quenched. Please give evidence for your statement. Remember I mentioned before. Don't make a statement without expecting to be challenged. Be prepared to be able to back up what you say with Scripture. I believe what you say is unscriptural. Here is your chance. Show me from Scripture what you say is true.
Secondly, re: your position on tongues. Is it in agreement with the church that you attend? Yes or no?
Dr. Walter
New Member
Again, I am not denying that God heals through answered prayers. That isn't an issue with me. The issue concerns those people who claim a divine gift as prophets, miracle workers, healers, etc.
glfredrick
New Member
I find the "free expression" of possibilities problematic. I've been in the midst of people who were "prophesying" in a Pentecostal manner. They were speaking outright lies that I knew were lies. I halted the practice, as it was happening within my own church during a visit of another church on mission. I see the biblical expression of prophesy as speaking forth the words of God. That does not give license for someone to come up with the wildest possible crud to speak (in God's name!). We speak what God first said, and the gift is true. When we speak anything else (new revelations) we might also then want to apply the test of a true prophet and be prepared to stone to death those who speak falsely. Ready for the test?
Dr. Walter
New Member
I have thus far posted three specific posts where Biblical evidence has been provided to back up my position on cessation of people possessing sign gifts, miracle gifts and no one has responded to the Biblical evidence.
I have provided an exposition of I Cor. 14 to demonstrate my position that tongues ceased and no one has attempted to overthrow the exposition.
I am reading a lot of personal opinions, experiences but as yet not a single person has provided a scriptural response to the evidence provided!
If your personal experience and opinion is biblical then why can't you respond appropriately to the evidence placed before you????
I have provided an exposition of I Cor. 14 to demonstrate my position that tongues ceased and no one has attempted to overthrow the exposition.
I am reading a lot of personal opinions, experiences but as yet not a single person has provided a scriptural response to the evidence provided!
If your personal experience and opinion is biblical then why can't you respond appropriately to the evidence placed before you????
Im sorry, I dont buy Pentecostal ways. They are creating a whole system of insanity I find deplorable. Again1 thess 5:19-21 Quench not the spirit, Despise not Prophesying, Prove all things. That third statement should be sufficient enough.