Spirit Through Pentecostals

First we must remember the context of the passage. It is speaking about spiritual gifts. What was the purpose of the spiritual gifts? To edify the body. To edify them how? Spiritually.

Remember, at the time this was written there was no New Testament. The New covenant was introduced and there was not yet any written instructions on what is and is not allowable under this new covenant. For instance. Do we still need to be circumcised? To answer that question I could not just go to Galatians and read what Paul had said. The Lord, therefore, gave some people the "gift of knowledge" to let them know that this was the new way. I mean think about it. There is a "gift of knowledge." The Bible is clear that not everyone will have the same gifts. Are you saying that until Christ comes some people can NEVER gain spiritual knowledge? That doesn't make sense.

So when we look at what the purpose of the gifts were for, we can see more clearly what Paul was saying. What did we know in part? We only knew that Christ died for our sins and rose again, but we were just learning about the freedom that came with that sacrifice. That his sacrifice, did away with the law, not added to it. We can now read the entire word of God, see fully man's condition, see fully man's failure to rectify the situation by keeping the law, see fully Christ's complete sacrifice, and receive His Spirit that will lead us into all truth to continue to see fully that which is revealed in His Word.

We also look at the evidence. Though I am certain most people aren't aware of this fact. Historically tongues were stilled until the very late 1800s to early 1900s. At the turn of the century there was a movement that said the "spiritual gifts" had returned. This movement was the foundation for the UPC and other pentecostal and charismatic churches. Of course, now they say they were never "stilled," but you will be hard pressed to find any legitimate biblical use of tongues and other such gifts. Even today, those who profess the gifts use them in violation of scriptural commands. When we examine this lack of any real gift against 1 Corinthians 13, it becomes self explanitory.

For instance. We see all these phony faith healers, but why don't we see the real thing? If someone TRULY had the gift of healing, why doesn't he go to a hospital and heal those in need? In the NT there was no doubt that people were healed. They were healed of external provable illnesses, we do not see this today. No, people are seeking gifts that are easily faked, that can't be proven. Tongues is not only hard to prove it is practiced by several pagan religions world wide, yet we are told by Christians that this is the "Evidence" of God's Spirit? I think not.

~Lorelei

 

You keep saying this, but this is wrong. You can not judge a church by man's response to it. The Bible says there will be a falling away in the last days. We are told that men will be believing what their itching ears want to hear. If a church is teaching the Bible, is boldly preaching the truth, they are likely to not have a grand following in today's society. Sad, but true. Remember, the wide and narrow roads?

The WORLD is what tells us that we should judge them by their numbers, by how many they have in their church. The Bible says judge them by their fruits and tells us what those fruits are.

Nothing about how many souls are being saved, how many people they witness to or bring to church.

We judge churches by their doctrine, not their numbers. Paul was clear.

The Corinthians were told they were easily accepting another spirit and another Jesus. We should be careful that our churches are not doing the same.

If you would like to judge churches by how many people are on their roster, then go ahead, but scripturally there is no basis that says we are to do so.

~Lorelei

 

Omega- Great post. I really enjoyed it.

Lorelei- As ever, I think that you have been peeking over my shoulder.

I don't know if I am "sledging" or not, but I have a tendancy to be rather passionate about things that do not agree with Scripture (this topic being one).

Do Pentecostal churches see more saved than non-Pentecostal ones? I do not have any statistics on that (I may go surfing for some later, though ). I do have a concern about it, though. My pastor has a saying that goes, "If you bring 'em in with a hot dog, somebody will take 'em off with a hamburger". If people flock to a spectacle, are they joining in the party, or are they accepting the Lord?

It is real easy to repeat a "sinners' prayer", and many do without belief in their hearts. It is also easy to get swept up in the ecstasy of the excitement (can we say "altered state of consciousness"?) and start gibbering away, and think that one has been "baptized by the Spirit", and that they are now saved.

Just something to think about...

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Lorelei, since there's obviously no point in trying to talk to you, I will simply challenge anyone who believes your accusations that I've attacked you to read my posts and see for themselves that I've done no such thing.

 

Its interesting that people can actually look for reasons to not be accountable as to why their churches are not following Jesus final instructions and getting people saved.

 

I will have to remember that one! I like it! Thanks so much for the encouragement. This too is a passionate subject for me! My husband is a former Oneness Pentecostal who has spoken in "tongues" (or at least he thought that is what it was at the time) and now I have two dear friends who have recently joined an Assembly of God church. It's discouraging because they really "Feel" closer to God now.

There was a time that I used to beleive differently but when my husband and I were confronted with the differences in our beliefs we both decided to forget everything that we had been taught and read the Bible simply for what it says. We both learned where we were wrong. It is amazing when you read the passages about "gifts" and "tongues" when you are not already "assuming" you know what that is. You see things so plainly! It is so easy to read your doctrine into passages, but when you read your doctrine out of the texts, without presupposed ideas, you come to the truth! The Lord revealed so plainly the truth in His Word, but too many people already have some man's interpretation in mind when reading it. I pray that people will read the texts for themselves. I tried to get my friends in the AOG to do that before they became indoctrinated, but they didn't. She kept saying she didn't understand tongues. Now she is starting to see things their way, and it's no wonder. The last time I asked her if she was reading her Bible her answer was "I am reading books about the Bible..."

Anyway, as I said it is a passion of mine. Your posts have been a blessing! Thanks!

~Lorelei

 

So have you, Lorelei.

I do not come from a church background, but I was exposed to some of this stuff by a friend of my parents. This "friend" would swing from so holy as to be sitting with Peter to gutter low in minutes. She was apt to go off on a "tongues" spree at the drop of a hat. It scared the willies out of me.

When I finally accepted Jesus, and then finally accepted the call to preach, I wanted to be sure of what the Bible had to say about everything before I stood to speak. "Tongues" was one of my first study topics. And what you said is true...if one will just read the Bible, and let it speak for itself, it would open their eyes. The Bible is a literal book, and must be taken that way. But hyperbole is used on occasion (Paul loved to argue using it).

I can not abide false doctrine or false teaching. "tongues" ranks pretty close to the top with me.

In Christ,
Trotter