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Spiritual Interpretation....part two

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Yeshua1

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Iconoclast said:
Hello PB 183
1thess answers the question of the believers,who have already died.They will be raised as we will be. This passage does not say when....but Jesus tells us in jn5,and jn6 it will be at the last day.
The article speaks of both the destruction of the ot holy place, and the second coming of Jesus on the last day.
70 ad happened as Jesus said it would...not one stone upon another....flee to the mountains.....
Jesus did not physically return in 70ad....but the judgment was......a coming in the clouds.... (an ot figure of judgment )...the judgment itself was the ...sign of the Son of MAN IN Heaven.
Jesus second coming physically. ..is the last day.

Now please address the language of the heaven rolling up like a scroll....stars falling to the earth....
PB...if one star,or sun fell to the earth...it would be the end of this earth.....the earth did not end when Babylon, or Edom was judged.....explain the language.....or read Chilton....explain why what he said was wrong.
Click to expand...
Jesus shall come to fight for national israel, for all the nations shall assembly against her in end of days, day of jacobs trouble, and that WAS not AD 70!
 
PrmtvBptst1832

PrmtvBptst1832

Active Member
Site Supporter
Iconoclast said:
Hello PB 183
1thess answers the question of the believers,who have already died.They will be raised as we will be. This passage does not say when....but Jesus tells us in jn5,and jn6 it will be at the last day.
The article speaks of both the destruction of the ot holy place, and the second coming of Jesus on the last day.
70 ad happened as Jesus said it would...not one stone upon another....flee to the mountains.....
Jesus did not physically return in 70ad....but the judgment was......a coming in the clouds.... (an ot figure of judgment )...the judgment itself was the ...sign of the Son of MAN IN Heaven.
Jesus second coming physically. ..is the last day.

Now please address the language of the heaven rolling up like a scroll....stars falling to the earth....
PB...if one star,or sun fell to the earth...it would be the end of this earth.....the earth did not end when Babylon, or Edom was judged.....explain the language.....or read Chilton....explain why what he said was wrong.
Click to expand...

I addressed the language in my last post. For the second time:

The issue at hand is not whether the prophets, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, used figurative language to describe historical judgments. Compare Matthew 24-25 with 1 Th. 4.15-5.3 and 2 Pe. 3.10-13. I would even be willing to concede that the references to the coming of the Lord in the New Testament are to some extent figurative and, in all reverence, exaggerated. That, of course, would depend on the genre and context of the writer.

Paul does inform us as to when the dead in Christ will rise as well as we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together (ἅμα) with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. -1 Th. 4.17

The living will be caught up at the same time, at once, together with the dead. Are you saying that 1 Th. 4.16 is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem? If it is, you have absolutely no basis to conclude that there is a (future) coming of the Lord and resurrection of the dead. In my humble opinion, heresy is not just denying the teaching of scripture but also adopting a system of interpretation that logically and necessarily leads those who are committed to it to do so.
 
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Yeshua1

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PrmtvBptst1832 said:
I addressed the language in my last post. For the second time:

The issue at hand is not whether the prophets, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, used figurative language to describe historical judgments. Compare Matthew 24-25 with 1 Th. 4.15-5.3 and 2 Pe. 3.10-13. I would even be willing to concede that the references to the coming of the Lord in the New Testament are to some extent figurative and, in all reverence, exaggerated. That, of course, would depend on the genre and context of the writer.

Paul does inform us as to when the dead in Christ will rise as well as we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together (ἅμα) with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. -1 Th. 4.17

The living will be caught up at the same time, at once, together with the dead. Are you saying that 1 Th. 4.16 is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem? If it is, you have absolutely no basis to conclude that there is a (future) coming of the Lord and resurrection of the dead. In my humble opinion, heresy is not just denying the teaching of scripture but also adopting a system of interpretation that logically and necessarily leads those who are committed to it to do so.
Click to expand...
The Second Coming Event will be seen and known world wide, as thatwill be the greatest event in history, as literally it all changes when he comes back ! AD 70 was not even know throughout the Roman Empire, but His returning will be!
 
PrmtvBptst1832

PrmtvBptst1832

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Yeshua1 said:
The Second Coming Event will be seen and known world wide, as thatwill be the greatest event in history, as literally it all changes when he comes back ! AD 70 was not even know throughout the Roman Empire, but His returning will be!
Click to expand...

I do not want to downplay the significance of the destruction of Jerusalem, either historically or the prophecies relating to that event, but it certainly was not that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior, Jesus Christ!
 
PrmtvBptst1832

PrmtvBptst1832

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Iconoclast said:
Where does the bible say this?
No one is interested in your story unless you can show it.
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And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. -Rev. 20.7-9

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. -Rev. 5.10

How can you say otherwise?

 
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Iconoclast

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PrmtvBptst1832 said:
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. -Rev. 20.7-9

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. -Rev. 5.10

How can you say otherwise?
Click to expand...
Where does this say Jesus is on an earthly throne?

I addressed the language in my last post. For the second time:

The issue at hand is not whether the prophets, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, used figurative language to describe historical judgments. Compare Matthew 24-25 with 1 Th. 4.15-5.3 and 2 Pe. 3.10-13. I would even be willing to concede that the references to the coming of the Lord in the New Testament are to some extent figurative and, in all reverence, exaggerated. That, of course, would depend on the genre and context of the writer.
Click to expand...

This does not address the question!

Here is the question;

12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and lo, a great earthquake came, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood,

13 and the stars of the heaven fell to the earth -- as a fig-tree doth cast her winter figs, by a great wind being shaken --

14 and heaven departed as a scroll rolled up, and every mountain and island -- out of their places they were moved;

15 and the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chiefs of thousands, and the mighty, and every servant, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens, and in the rocks of the mountains,

16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, `Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of Him who is sitting upon the throne, and from the anger of the Lamb,'

17 because come did the great day of His anger, and who is able to stand?


1]what does it mean that the stars of the heaven fall to the earth?
explain what this figure of speech is actually describing..
2] are these literal stars?
3]do they fall to the earth?
4]what does it mean the mountains were moved out of their place?
5] what does it mean that the heaven rolled up like a scroll?

Is it literal, and if so...what does it describe?
If it is figurative what does it describe?
4]
 
PrmtvBptst1832

PrmtvBptst1832

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Site Supporter
Iconoclast said:
Where does this say Jesus is on an earthly throne?



This does not address the question!

Here is the question;

12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and lo, a great earthquake came, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood,

13 and the stars of the heaven fell to the earth -- as a fig-tree doth cast her winter figs, by a great wind being shaken --

14 and heaven departed as a scroll rolled up, and every mountain and island -- out of their places they were moved;

15 and the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chiefs of thousands, and the mighty, and every servant, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens, and in the rocks of the mountains,

16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, `Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of Him who is sitting upon the throne, and from the anger of the Lamb,'

17 because come did the great day of His anger, and who is able to stand?


1]what does it mean that the stars of the heaven fall to the earth?
explain what this figure of speech is actually describing..
2] are these literal stars?
3]do they fall to the earth?
4]what does it mean the mountains were moved out of their place?
5] what does it mean that the heaven rolled up like a scroll?

Is it literal, and if so...what does it describe?
If it is figurative what does it describe?
4]
Click to expand...

The saints are clearly on earth, and they are reigning with Christ. Surely Christ does not come again, raise the dead, and go back to heaven. My previous posts do, in fact, address the figurative language. The issue, as I said, is not the figurative language, but the event(s) under consideration. Figurative language does not assume Preterism
 
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Iconoclast

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PrmtvBptst1832 said:
The saints are clearly on earth, and they are reigning with Christ. Surely Christ does not come again, raise the dead, and go back to heaven. My previous posts do, in fact, address the figurative language. The issue, as I said, is not the figurative language, but the event(s) under consideration. Figurative language does not assume Preterism
Click to expand...
I am just asking you to address the passage.
Forget which system it might be....answer the questions I just asked...
I do not think any Premillenialist can do it and remain consistent.
I do not want to hear a general statement right now....just the text explained.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Iconoclast said:
I am just asking you to address the passage.
Forget which system it might be....answer the questions I just asked...
I do not think any Premillenialist can do it and remain consistent.
I do not want to hear a general statement right now....just the text explained.
Click to expand...
All of the nations come up against Israel to destroy her right beforemessiah comes to rescue them, was that Ad 70 or yet to come?
 
J

Jope

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Wow your tactic is bravo guys. Icono and kyred. Completely ignore the opposing argument and show complete ignorance of any knowledge whatsoever of your opponent. That shows insecurity and complete lack of faith in the strength of your position you know.


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