Spiritual Interpretation....pt4

[kyredneck]

Do you not think that this is going on today?

Do you not think context is important? Or is it important only when YOU are denigrating other's proof texts?

Do you not think the continuity of the metaphor is important? If it doesn't mean wrath/anger, what is it signifying in your spin of the text?

 

[kyredneck]

<------------> Disregard. Was texting my neighbor on the BB!

 

[Yeshua1]

Where does it say...at His second COMING?
This is not John...it is Paul....He said he already told them.
WHY is it not Nero who already was in the Holy place? There is no earthly holy place now.

It states that it will happen at his appearance, so that would be the Second Coming, and israel will have rebuilt the temple before that happens!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you not think that this is going on today? Especially (but by no means exclusively) in Moslem lands, people coming to faith in Christ are ostracised by their own families. Or in North Korea or elsewhere, that children are betraying the parents to death (cf. Luke 21:16). And did not these things go on in the times of Domitian and Diocletian? And in the times of the Inquisition? There is nothing in these texts which is exclusive to the period around AD 70.

The Church has always faced hard times since Acts, but the Great Tribulation will be world wide, as wrath of God poured out!

 

[Covenanter]

I wonder where @Yeshua1 gets his comments from? If they were from Scripture, he would tell us.

 

[Covenanter]

In previous threads I have tried to introduce the subject of Gabriel's seventy weeks. Daniel 9.

This I understand to be readily taken literally as referring to the saving work of Jesus, his confirmation of the covenant, & the destruction of Jerusalem & the temple.

70 weeks or 490 years would be expected to end soon after Jesus' saving ministry. Why do dispensationalists claiming "literal interpretation" separate the 70th week from the 69 by 2,000 years?

 

[Yeshua1]

I wonder where @Yeshua1 gets his comments from? If they were from Scripture, he would tell us.

I doubt that EVERY word posted here all the time by anyone is just from the scriptures!

 

[Iconoclast]

It states that it will happen at his appearance, so that would be the Second Coming, and israel will have rebuilt the temple before that happens!

Where does it say this?

 

[Yeshua1]

Where does it say this?

Slain at His appearing...

 

[Iconoclast]

I doubt that EVERY word posted here all the time by anyone is just from the scriptures!

You are the main culprit.....you just make things up....1pet.3:15
Does it say appearing, or coming?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are the main culprit.....you just make things up....1pet.3:15
Does it say appearing, or coming?

Same thing!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Amillennialists do not believe in any earthly
visible kingdom prior to the final judgment. They
believe that only the church and Christian schools and
families will visibly represent the kingdom on earth,
and the world will fall increasingly under the
domination of Satan.

I don't think this is so; not for this Amil, anyway!
The Scriptures teach both that the Gospel will be preached all over the world and that people of every tribe, tongue and nation will be saved, but also that there will be terrible times in the Last days with persecution rising, and the love of the greater number will growing cold etc.

Is this not exactly what we see today, and have seen all through history? That the Gospel is moving in great power in various lands, but in others, dreadful persecution of Christians and a falling away in many places. Why should we be surprised or discouraged? The sovereign God who cleared all the missionaries out of China and then brought amazing revival may yet do something even greater in Europe or the Middle East before the end.

Are we all praying regularly for God to bring revival to our land?

 

[John of Japan]

John.....I am informed by Benjamin Keach that there are.types,metaphors,figures of speech, 4 kinds of Metonomy of the cause....efficient,material,formal,final...

He tells me.....A Metonomy is a trope when a cause is put for the effect,or the effect for the cause,the Subject for the Adjunct,or the Adjunct for the subject.
He also tells me an Irony is a trope whereby contrails or opposites are put one for another....
This trope may more rightly called Antiphrasis,which uses words contrary to their proper meaning, or original or general sense.

He also speaks about....of a synecdoche,a catachresis,hyperbole, paranoia, Aenigma,...etc.

17th century Keach uses quite different terminology from what we use nowadays, so I don't think of him as being much help. But to each his own.

Let me ask this again. Did Keach tell you the purpose of figures of speech? If you don't know why the figures of speech are in Scripture, you can't interpret them correctly.

The problem is...no one out here in all the USA has ever asked me about any of these definitions.....I use this book as a reference tool, I have not forced all of it into my head...
Now..... I do not make these terms my goal...but rather what do the scriptures teach?

Did Keach tell you the various words used for figures of speech in the New Testament?

 

[John of Japan]

I like to think of exploring the best thoughts of each view in an effort to leave no stone unturned. Your concern over what kind of language is used is a consideration. What is also a consideration is if we ignore what God might be saying by denying that symbolic language, types, figures of speech, metaphors
hyperbole, can indeed be discovered by the consistent biblical usage.
In the preface of David Chiltons Days of vengeance we read this;

3. Revelation is a prophecy about imminent events – events that were about to break loose on the world of the first century.
Revelation is not about nuclear warfare, space travel, or the end of the world. Again and again it specifically warns that “the time is near!” St.
John wrote his book as a prophecy of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem in A.D.70, showing that Jesus Christ had brought the
New Covenant and the New Creation. Revelation cannot be understood unless this fundamental fact is taken seriously.

I'll be honest, I don't have any of Chilton's books, but I am repelled by him for the following reasons:

1. His M.Div. and Ph.D. are from Whitefield Theological Seminary, which certainly looks like an Internet degree mill. For crying out loud, there are not even any faculty members listed in the catalog--apparently one guy runs the whole thing. How can I trust Chilton if he is dishonest in his education? I would happily be proven wrong about this, but having spent a huge effort and much money to get my degrees, I don't have much patience with degree mills.
2. If Chilton wrote the publisher's blurb, it shows grave misunderstanding of not only dispensational theology, but any premil position. It's very insulting to my theology.
3. He was involved in the Dominion movement, which is filled with problematic actions and teachings.

Besides, I would much rather learn what you think and know than Keatch or Chilton. Do original Bible study. You are capable of that. That's how I came to my own positions: hundreds of hours of personal Bible study.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't think this is so; not for this Amil, anyway!
The Scriptures teach both that the Gospel will be preached all over the world and that people of every tribe, tongue and nation will be saved, but also that there will be terrible times in the Last days with persecution rising, and the love of the greater number will growing cold etc.

Is this not exactly what we see today, and have seen all through history? That the Gospel is moving in great power in various lands, but in others, dreadful persecution of Christians and a falling away in many places. Why should we be surprised or discouraged? The sovereign God who cleared all the missionaries out of China and then brought amazing revival may yet do something even greater in Europe or the Middle East before the end.

Are we all praying regularly for God to bring revival to our land?

Thank that BOTh Amils/pre Mils see that the world is getting worse until the Second Coming events, while post mils see us ushering in the Golden Age to give to Jesus at His coming!

 

[Yeshua1]

The Reconstructionist Movement is very dangerous, as it blends together with Domenion theology!

 

[Calv1]

In episode 3. We made only a little progress.
We saw that God uses figures of speech,metaphors,hyperbolic statements, but we did not get to the interpretation itself. What do these figures and metaphors actually teach?
When do these events take place?
If you can back up your post with scripture.....post it....if you cannot, feel free to read but we do not care about random thoughts,tweets, and opinions unless given scriptural support.

Good topic, about time Literalist; "Satan get behind me", "See, Jesus called Peter Satan so I believe every word, so Peter is Satan", lack of Hermaneutics and good exegesis is what brings out all of these crazy cults and theories.

SCRIPTURE IS LITERATURE, and is to be treated that way, was it a literal Rooster that crowed, or did they in the first century have a man who'd come down, yell out "Hear oh Israel your sacrifice is here", which was called "The Rooster" or "The Cock Crow"

Good topic!

 

[Yeshua1]

Good topic, about time Literalist; "Satan get behind me", "See, Jesus called Peter Satan so I believe every word, so Peter is Satan", lack of Hermaneutics and good exegesis is what brings out all of these crazy cults and theories.

SCRIPTURE IS LITERATURE, and is to be treated that way, was it a literal Rooster that crowed, or did they in the first century have a man who'd come down, yell out "Hear oh Israel your sacrifice is here", which was called "The Rooster" or "The Cock Crow"

Good topic!

I hold to taking the literal meaning, but I would not call jesus a literal door, or Lamb!

 

[Calv1]

Do you not think that this is going on today? Especially (but by no means exclusively) in Moslem lands, people coming to faith in Christ are ostracised by their own families. Or in North Korea or elsewhere, that children are betraying the parents to death (cf. Luke 21:16). And did not these things go on in the times of Domitian and Diocletian? And in the times of the Inquisition? There is nothing in these texts which is exclusive to the period around AD 70.

Yes there is, from Olivet Discourse, the verse Atheists SUCCESSFULLY USE against naive Christians, "ALL OF THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN BEFORE THIS GENERATION PASSES AWAY", a Jewish Generation was 40 years, AND CHRIST WAS RIGHT, but what of modern interpretation? Well "Coming in the Clouds" is NOT A GOOD THING, happened twice in the OT, once the destruction of Egypt, once of Israel to the Babylonians, so when Jesus, under arrest said "Soon hereafter you shall see the Son of Man COMING IN THE CLOUDS", the Chief Priest tore his clothes, see HE KNEW WHAT JESUS MEANT, Jesus said "I, the Son of Man, am coming in Judgement to you", which He did in 70AD, and while I haven't read everything this fellow has wrote, yes the majority of Revelation occurred up and unto 70AD, which is the historical view, it wasn't until mid-1800's when a literal nut case "We are the only true Church", condemned by Spurgeon and anyone with a brain, INVENTED Dispensationalism, Scofield somehow kept it, then with "Late Great Planet Earth" it became the new norm.

There is no AntiChrist coming, AntiChrist is used 3 times in the epistles of John, it refers to anyone who denies Jesus came, anyone who denies He came in the flesh, or rejects Christ, the term "Anti-Christ" is not found in book of Revelation, same author John, but Beast is, number of the beast, 666 or 616, there is debate on this variant, but 666 is the name Ceasar Nero, trust me the Churches in the first century KNEW who John was talking about.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes there is, from Olivet Discourse, the verse Atheists SUCCESSFULLY USE against naive Christians, "ALL OF THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN BEFORE THIS GENERATION PASSES AWAY", a Jewish Generation was 40 years, AND CHRIST WAS RIGHT, but what of modern interpretation? Well "Coming in the Clouds" is NOT A GOOD THING, happened twice in the OT, once the destruction of Egypt, once of Israel to the Babylonians, so when Jesus, under arrest said "Soon hereafter you shall see the Son of Man COMING IN THE CLOUDS", the Chief Priest tore his clothes, see HE KNEW WHAT JESUS MEANT, Jesus said "I, the Son of Man, am coming in Judgement to you", which He did in 70AD, and while I haven't read everything this fellow has wrote, yes the majority of Revelation occurred up and unto 70AD, which is the historical view, it wasn't until mid-1800's when a literal nut case "We are the only true Church", condemned by Spurgeon and anyone with a brain, INVENTED Dispensationalism, Scofield somehow kept it, then with "Late Great Planet Earth" it became the new norm.

There is no AntiChrist coming, AntiChrist is used 3 times in the epistles of John, it refers to anyone who denies Jesus came, anyone who denies He came in the flesh, or rejects Christ, the term "Anti-Christ" is not found in book of Revelation, same author John, but Beast is, number of the beast, 666 or 616, there is debate on this variant, but 666 is the name Ceasar Nero, trust me the Churches in the first century KNEW who John was talking about.

The Angels in Acts told us that the same jesus will be returning same way he left, and all eyes shall see Him, and the dead in him will arise, and those alive be glorified, was all that AD 70?