I do not believe that spiritual life is anything except Christ in us. They (the OT saints) look to the Promise but were not partakers of that Promise during their lifetime. Like Adam, they cannot be said to have had "spiritual life".
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Spiritual Life
- Thread starter JonC
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Here are some questions for discussion.
Is Christ spiritual life in the sense you are saying, or is he the spiritual life-giver tho those that need salvation. Is God the Father spiritually alive? Is the Spirit spiritually alive? Are the angels spiritually alive?
Good point. I believe Christ IS Life and the Life giver. It is the Spirit (God giving of Himself) that is life.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
So is God the Father only spiritually alive because of Christ?
I do not believe so.
I believe that God puts His Spirit in the believer (they are made new creatures, born again). Paul used the term "Christ in me" and Jesus emphasized that He is the Life. That is what I believe spiritual life to be.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" In him was life; and the life was the light of men." ( John 1:4 ).
" Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" ( John 11:25 ).
" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 ).
" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." ( John 17:2-3 ).
" (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
" ( 1 John 1:2 )." When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." ( Colossians 3:4 ).
I agree. This is how I define spiritual life as well." In him was life; and the life was the light of men." ( John 1:4 ).
" Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" ( John 11:25 ).
" Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 ).
" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." ( John 17:2-3 ).
" (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
" When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." ( Colossians 3:4 ).
I believe there is a distinction between the spirit interacting with and guiding the people of the OT and God "putting His Spirit in us", "Christ in us".
if they did not have spiritual life, they could not be in a relationship that saved them with God!
Did the Holy Spirit grant eternal life to the redeemed in the OT, and yet we under the NC experience the fullness of that they did not?
The Holy Spirit Himself is not Christ in us though, correct?
Unless one has spiritual life though, cannot be in a spiritual relationship with God!
Are you suggesting that Adam was created spiritually alive, then Adam spiritually died, and then Adam was made spiritually alive again? Or do you believe Adam is still spiritually dead?
No. No one that I know of is spoken of (in Scripture) as having everlasting life prior to the work of Christ. The Holy Spirit is not even said to grant eternal life (Christ is the Life giving spirit).
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Well first, we need to note that the term "spiritual life" is not found in Scripture. That is part of the problem because we are assigning terms to describe a state. What we do find in Scripture is the transcendent life zoe that is discussed by being made alive in Christ. We also see the wages of sin is death. That is what Adam received when he partook of the fruit. The two contrast each other.
Death in Romans 6:23 is referring to the absence of a relationship with God. A separation from God. Therefore, the life that is found in Christ is the means of restoring a bond, a relationship with God. Adam had that before the fall. At the fall, he experienced, in that day, a spiritual death. The relationship was broken and he needed a savior.
believe that Adam was in a spiritual relationship with his Creator until he fell, as then he spiritually dead, and was restored thru the messiah promised to Him!
The question is really how would spiritual life look iunder the OC, as the Holy Spirit had not yet come in his NC way!
JonC has to understand that how we view spiritual life is not in same fashion pre and post fall, as Adam was on COW at beginning, and the Holy Spirit had not yet come in his exact way as in Acts!
The issue here is that Romans 6:23 does not define spiritual death as the absence of a relationship with God.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If anything, this life we are brought into seems to be "eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".
The wages of sin is death (because of sin we die) but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus (I believe this is spiritual life).
Do you believe that God actually puts His Spirit in us, that Christ is the Life, that life is "Christ in us", that we are reborn of "imperishable seed"?
So you view salvation as restoring to mankind what was lost (Christ as the "Second born") rather than a new creation?
No, more that Spiritual life would be different meaning in OC and compared to the NC!
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