Spiritual Warfare

[Winman]

Who then tempted Jesus in the wilderness?

You are not going to get anywhere with this fellow. Probably no one spoke more of Satan than Jesus, and yet HisWitness does not believe. There is nothing you can do when a person does not believe scripture.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

It is clear that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was the Devil, Satan, the person who deceived Eve and who deceived the whole world.

Now, Satan is not cast out of heaven yet, he still has access to heaven. Here in Revelation 12 he is kicked out once and for all.

 

[HisWitness]

Who then tempted Jesus in the wilderness?

could have been the High priest--but I believe it was 1 or more of his henchmen to do the bidding.

a lot of the talk was figurative---think about it---

Satan demanded jesus throw himself from the peak of the temple--the object behind this temptation was that the expectation of the children of Israel that their Messiah would come from heaven--with some believing that he would come swooping down upon the worshippers from the heights of the temple.
If this could have proven one to be the Hope of Israel--what would prevent Satan(fallen angelic being)from carrying out this deception by doing this himself---according to the myth he can take on various forms,capable of carrying out communication,he could have taken bodily form and deceived the jews by doing this himself--but this was NO fallen angelic being but a MAN or MEN which were not capable of doing this deed theirselves???

 

[Amy.G]

could have been the High priest--but I believe it was 1 or more of his henchmen to do the bidding.

You have no basis for your belief. There is nothing in scripture that says or even implies the high priest was out in the desert with Jesus during that 40 days.

Winman is right. Can't get through to you.

 

[Winman]

could have been the High priest--but I believe it was 1 or more of his henchmen to do the bidding.

a lot of the talk was figurative---think about it---

Satan demanded jesus throw himself from the peak of the temple--the object behind this temptation was that the expectation of the children of Israel that their Messiah would come from heaven--with some believing that he would come swooping down upon the worshippers from the heights of the temple.
If this could have proven one to be the Hope of Israel--what would prevent Satan(fallen angelic being)from carrying out this deception by doing this himself---according to the myth he can take on various forms,capable of carrying out communication,he could have taken bodily form and deceived the jews by doing this himself--but this was NO fallen angelic being but a MAN or MEN which were not capable of doing this deed theirselves???

So, you believe Jesus was in THE WILDERNESS, far from Jerusalem, and that a man instantly took him to a pinnacle of the temple? Quite a feat for a man don't you think?

Then this same man instantly took Jesus to an exceeding high mountain where he could see all the kingdoms of the world? Again, quite the fellow.

 

[HisWitness]

You are not going to get anywhere with this fellow. Probably no one spoke more of Satan than Jesus, and yet HisWitness does not believe. There is nothing you can do when a person does not believe scripture.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

It is clear that the serpent in the Garden of Eden was the Devil, Satan, the person who deceived Eve and who deceived the whole world.

Now, Satan is not cast out of heaven yet, he still has access to heaven. Here in Revelation 12 he is kicked out once and for all.

friend cast out into the earth---cast down to hell--are symbolic statements as concerning King Nebby as him being cast down from heaven to hell or to the earth--meaning that all the majesty and honor that God had given him before people and cities round about him--were taken away in an instance when he was full of pride and lifted himself above God--and he was cast down to shame and suffering when God made him as one of the animals of the field before the same people and cities round about him--this is figurative language not literal--plenty of evidence in other places of the same things happening friend :love2::love2:

 

[HisWitness]

You have no basis for your belief. There is nothing in scripture that says or even implies the high priest was out in the desert with Jesus during that 40 days.


still if this Satan was an angelic fallen being who could take on bodily form--he could have done what he was asking jesus to do and deceive the people hisself could he not ????

proves this was a MAN or MEN and not a fallen angelic being with such stated powers.

 

[HisWitness]

So, you believe Jesus was in THE WILDERNESS, far from Jerusalem, and that a man instantly took him to a pinnacle of the temple? Quite a feat for a man don't you think?

Then this same man instantly took Jesus to an exceeding high mountain where he could see all the kingdoms of the world? Again, quite the fellow.

Figurative language friend--there is NO mountain on this planet whereby you can see ALL the kingdoms of this earth. :godisgood::godisgood:

neither did jesus actually stand on the pinnacle of the temple--again figurative language here

 

[Winman]

friend cast out into the earth---cast down to hell--are symbolic statements as concerning King Nebby as him being cast down from heaven to hell or to the earth--meaning that all the majesty and honor that God had given him before people and cities round about him--were taken away in an instance when he was full of pride and lifted himself above God--and he was cast down to shame and suffering when God made him as one of the animals of the field before the same people and cities round about him--this is figurative language not literal--plenty of evidence in other places of the same things happening friend :love2::love2:

You are still avoiding how a man could be miles away from Jerusalem in the wilderness, and instantly be on a pinnacle of the temple in Jerusalem, and then in another instant take Jesus to the top of an exceeding high mountain. There are no great mountains in Israel, the nearest high mountains would probably be in Turkey many hundreds of miles away.

And going back, there were no men in Eden, Adam and Eve were the first two persons, and they had not had any children yet. So, that anointed cherub in Ezekiel 28 that was in the Garden of Eden was Satan , that "old serpent" identified in Rev 12:9.

Your explanation falls flat, there were no men in Eden except Adam and Eve.

 

[Amy.G]

still if this Satan was an angelic fallen being who could take on bodily form--he could have done what he was asking jesus to do and deceive the people hisself could he not ????

Only if God the Father had NOTHING to do with the salvation of man and sending His Son to die for our sins!!!!!

Satan can ONLY do what God allows. Read the book of Job.

proves this was a MAN or MEN and not a fallen angelic being with such stated powers.

You have no "proof". You are just making it up.

 

[HisWitness]

You are still avoiding how a man could be miles away from Jerusalem in the wilderness, and instantly be on a pinnacle of the temple in Jerusalem, and then in another instant take Jesus to the top of an exceeding high mountain. There are no great mountains in Israel, the nearest high mountains would probably be in Turkey many hundreds of miles away.

And going back, there were no men in Eden, Adam and Eve were the first two persons, and they had not had any children yet. So, that anointed cherub in Ezekiel 28 that was in the Garden of Eden was Satan , that "old serpent" identified in Rev 12:9.

Your explanation falls flat, there were no men in Eden except Adam and Eve.

again Jesus did not stand on the pinnacle of the temple---figurative language--he never left the wilderness.

 

[Winman]

Figurative language friend--there is NO mountain on this planet whereby you can see ALL the kingdoms of this earth. :godisgood::godisgood:

neither did jesus actually stand on the pinnacle of the temple--again figurative language here

How do we know it meant a mountain on earth? Ezekiel 28 says the anointed cherub walked on the mountain of God.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Here you go, this "cherub" has been in the Garden of Eden, he was upon the holy mountain of God, and he was perfect in his ways from the day he was created until iniquity or sin was found in him.

How do you know this is not that exceeding high mountain that Satan took Jesus to? From here you could see the whole Earth.

 

[HisWitness]

Only if God the Father had NOTHING to do with the salvation of man and sending His Son to die for our sins!!!!!

Satan can ONLY do what God allows. Read the book of Job.


You have no "proof". You are just making it up.

so you are saying that it is truly God who lets Satan destroy his own people and run amuck in this world creating havoc--is that not God doing the work but just using Satan to do it for him ????

So Satan according to your view is the evil instrument created by God to do evil---that would make God the author of what evil he allows Satan to do would it not and put God in Full control of the evil being done and not Satan ?

 

[agedman]

you still don't get what I have said.

Men are the ones that do evil--from their own lusts from their hearts

you are taking a shot in the dark and cant even supply evidence of an angel named Satan even sinning and falling.i know you cant supply the evidence,because I have taken countless hours through the bible trying to do it myself---its NOT there--all you can do is speculate on some scriptures that are not plain---but don't you think for such a most important topic---God would have warned his people in the old testament of his existence and his wiles to do harm and to injure ??? you cant find nothing to that regard no where in the old testament--nor find where the event of the supposed being ever did happen

I mean Christ warned the apostles---apostles warned the church ????
and I believe the warning was talking about the High priest and his angels which was the Satan(Adversary) of Christ and his Church.the only difference in what we are saying is that you say theres a fallen angelic entity behind the word and I do not,but I say its MEN,empires,kings,even God at one point in the old testament---if there were evidence of an angel named Satan fallen then I would believe it--BUT theirs NOT.

You didn't answer the actual question.

Does not your view, if applied to God, actually support that God is a human expression of the ability to love and does not actually exist?

Do you actually have Scriptural proof that God exists, apart from a definition of the character or nature in which may be copied by humankind in every generation?

In other words, can you apply your reasoning about the lack of there being an actual being named Satan to there being an actual God?

 

[HisWitness]

How do we know it meant a mountain on earth? Ezekiel 28 says the anointed cherub walked on the mountain of God.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Here you go, this "cherub" has been in the Garden of Eden, he was upon the holy mountain of God, and he was perfect in his ways from the day he was created until iniquity or sin was found in him.

How do you know this is not that exceeding high mountain that Satan took Jesus to? From here you could see the whole Earth.

here again you are speculating now in your own words--asking me how I know its not what it meant and you aren't even sure yourself if it means that .......

Figurative language again friend it wasn't the literal garden of eden he was talking about---just as I explained with nebby..

 

[Winman]

so you are saying that it is truly God who lets Satan destroy his own people and run amuck in this world creating havoc--is that not God doing the work but just using Satan to do it for him ????

So Satan according to your view is the evil instrument created by God to to evil---that would make God the author of what evil he allows Satan to do would it not and put God in Full control of the evil being done and not Satan ?

That is a Calvinist/Reformed view. I doubt Amy believes that, but I know some Calvinists who do.

Satan is God's enemy or adversary. And Satan has a great deal of power and can perform wonders and miracles. He does not need to get God's permission for everything.

God promises to protect truly obedient Christians, this is why Satan had to get permission to afflict Job. Satan was actually correct when he said there was a hedge about Job, but that is not true of every person, the scriptures say Satan can take many people captive "at his will".

2 Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Winman]

here again you are speculating now in your own words--asking me how I know its not what it meant and you aren't even sure yourself if it means that .......

Figurative language again friend it wasn't the literal garden of eden he was talking about---just as I explained with nebby..

Yes, I am speculating, but there is nothing in scripture that excludes that this is where Satan took Jesus. From this mountain Jesus could see all the kingdoms of the world.

You have no warrant to say this scripture is figurative. Now YOU are speculating. Satan being supernatural could very well have taken Jesus up to the mountain of God.

 

[HisWitness]

You didn't answer the actual question.

Does not your view, if applied to God, actually support that God is a human expression of the ability to love and does not actually exist?

Do you actually have Scriptural proof that God exists, apart from a definition of the character or nature in which may be copied by humankind in every generation?

In other words, can you apply your reasoning about the lack of there being an actual being named Satan to there being an actual God?

John 1-1

in the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.

2-The same was in the beginning with God.

is that enough scriptural evidence of God being in existence even from the beginning ??

now show me some plain scriptures like as I have shown you with no dout or question of what it is saying that a angel named Satan sinned and fell from God ???

 

[HisWitness]

That is a Calvinist/Reformed view. I doubt Amy believes that, but I know some Calvinists who do.

Satan is God's enemy or adversary. And Satan has a great deal of power and can perform wonders and miracles. He does not need to get God's permission for everything.

God promises to protect truly obedient Christians, this is why Satan had to get permission to afflict Job. Satan was actually correct when he said there was a hedge about Job, but that is not true of every person, the scriptures say Satan can take many people captive "at his will".

2 Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

that's EXACTLY my point---according to your view then Satan does as he pleases--why tempt jesus in leaping from the pinnacle when he could have took bodily form and done it hisself and deceived the jews hisself ???

either he does what he chooses or he does NOTHING apart from God---which is it ??? this according to your view I mean ???

 

[Winman]

John 1-1

in the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.

2-The same was in the beginning with God.

is that enough scriptural evidence of God being in existence even from the beginning ??

now show me some plain scriptures like as I have shown you with no dout or question of what it is saying that a angel named Satan sinned and fell from God ???

Dude, I have showed you. A "cherub" is an angel. This particular cherub was in the Garden of Eden before any men existed. This cherub walked on the mountain of God, this cherub was perfect in all his ways until iniquity or sin was found in him.

There were no men to tempt Adam and Eve, they were the FIRST people. They had not had children yet.

Who else was in the garden? God, who certainly did not tempt them, as God never tempts any man to sin (James 1:13).

That leaves only this anointed cherub who was in the Garden of Eden and sinned.

Checkmate dude, whether you admit it or not.

 

[Amy.G]

so you are saying that it is truly God who lets Satan destroy his own people and run amuck in this world creating havoc--is that not God doing the work but just using Satan to do it for him ????

So Satan according to your view is the evil instrument created by God to do evil---that would make God the author of what evil he allows Satan to do would it not and put God in Full control of the evil being done and not Satan ?

I'm not saying anything of the sort. I'm saying God is sovereign and as such Satan has no power over Him.
Adam gave away this world when he sinned against God. Now Satan is the god of this world.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.