Still no facts supporting preterism!

[prophecy70]

Your replies are becoming more irrelevant & asinine as these threads go on.

I felt the need to sink to your level.

 

[robycop3]

I once believed this as well during my dispensational days. These are allusions. The Old Testament is filled with "harlot" symbolism relating to Israel when it did extreme evil and did not repent. That is why the Northern Kingdom of Israel was destroyed during Isaiah's days and why the 1st temple was destroyed by the Babylonians. The harlot that sits on many waters was literally true of historic Babylon that was located by the Euphrates River. Revelation 17:15 explains that the waters that Mystery Babylon(Jerusalem) sits by are not literal rivers but represent peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues. This is talking about the diversity of nationalities that congregated at the Temple. Pilgrims would come from all over the Roman empire for the festivals of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Acts 2 talks about devout Jewish men from every nation under heaven dwelling in Jerusalem.

Look at revelation 18:24: And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth(land).

Compare that to Luke 11: 47-51:

47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

"Mystery, Babylon" is the religion started by Semiramis & her son/hubby Nimrod. It was practiced by many Jews in jeremiah's time, as they made cakes to the "queena hevvin" & wept for Tammuz, Nimrod's & Semiramis' son.Semmy made herself "queena hevvin" while Nimmy enforced her rule.
The RCC continues many of their practices under different names. They subbed Mary for Semmy as queena hevvin, made a pope, an office not found in Scripture whatsoever, offer prayers to the dead, have man-made saints, indulgences, belief in purgatory, celibacy among their clergy, & many other rites from that old paganism. thus, ROME is now the seat of mystery, Babylon!

The destruction was the culmination of the "days of vengeance" decreed by Jesus upon that generation of Jews. Now, He DEFINITELY meant "that generation in that declaration, as history bears out.

The first Babylon was not a great seaport, & while its importance decreased greatly on the day the medes conquered it, it was destroyed SLOWLY, with some of it still around in Jesus' time.

 

[robycop3]

I felt the need to sink to your level.

No, you felt the need to try to distract the readership from your LACK OF TRUTH & PROOF.

 

[prophecy70]

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

1 Thessalonians 4-5
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Since you tell me I believe false things, based on your belief then explain robycop3 what coming are these? The "rapture", a coming before the millennium or a coming at the end of the millennium?

I only see one coming here at the end of the present gospel age that is the millennium. No rapture no future millennium....But by all means explain...

 

[robycop3]

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

1 Thessalonians 4-5
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Since you tell me I believe false things, based on your belief then explain robycop3 what coming are these? The "rapture", a coming before the millennium or a coming at the end of the millennium?

I only see one coming here at the end of the present gospel age that is the millennium. No rapture no future millennium....But by all means explain...

In 1 Thess, that will be the return of Jesus. 2 Peter will be an act of God's. It says nothing about God's coming then.

Are you forgetting that GOD CAN DO ANYTHING? He can be everywhere at once, or in only one place at the same time. He doesn't have to be present to accomplish His will or perform any act.

But Jesus WILL physically return to gather all the believers to Himself.

 

[prophecy70]

In 1 Thess, that will be the return of Jesus. 2 Peter will be an act of God's. It says nothing about God's coming then.

Are you forgetting that GOD CAN DO ANYTHING? He can be everywhere at once, or in only one place at the same time. He doesn't have to be present to accomplish His will or perform any act.

But Jesus WILL physically return to gather all the believers to Himself.

You still have not explained then. They are two different comings? Where is the millennium in 2nd Peter 3 10
When is the day of the Lord?

 

[Revelation 20:5]

"Mystery, Babylon" is the religion started by Semiramis & her son/hubby Nimrod. It was practiced by many Jews in jeremiah's time, as they made cakes to the "queena hevvin" & wept for Tammuz, Nimrod's & Semiramis' son.Semmy made herself "queena hevvin" while Nimmy enforced her rule.
The RCC continues many of their practices under different names. They subbed Mary for Semmy as queena hevvin, made a pope, an office not found in Scripture whatsoever, offer prayers to the dead, have man-made saints, indulgences, belief in purgatory, celibacy among their clergy, & many other rites from that old paganism. thus, ROME is now the seat of mystery, Babylon!

The destruction was the culmination of the "days of vengeance" decreed by Jesus upon that generation of Jews. Now, He DEFINITELY meant "that generation in that declaration, as history bears out.

The first Babylon was not a great seaport, & while its importance decreased greatly on the day the medes conquered it, it was destroyed SLOWLY, with some of it still around in Jesus' time.

Rome is not Mystery Babylon in Revelation. Most Christians have completely missed the clues within the symbolism in Revelation. Jerusalem didn't have a seaport but it did benefit from trade by sea. Here is a description of that by Josephus in Wars 3,3,5:

5. In the limits of Samaria and Judea lies the village Anuath, which is also named Borceos. This is the northern boundary of Judea. The southern parts of Judea, if they be measured lengthways, are bounded by a Village adjoining to the confines of Arabia; the Jews that dwell there call it Jordan. However, its breadth is extended from the river Jordan to Joppa. The city Jerusalem is situated in the very middle; on which account some have, with sagacity enough, called that city the Navel of the country. Nor indeed is Judea destitute of such delights as come from the sea, since its maritime places extend as far as Ptolemais: it was parted into eleven portions, of which the royal city Jerusalem was the supreme, and presided over all the neighboring country, as the head does over the body. As to the other cities that were inferior to it, they presided over their several toparchies; Gophna was the second of those cities, and next to that Acrabatta, after them Thamna, and Lydda, and Emmaus, and Pella, and Idumea, and Engaddi, and Herodium, and Jericho; and after them came Jamnia and Joppa, as presiding over the neighboring people; and besides these there was the region of Gamala, and Gaulonitis, and Batanea, and Trachonitis, which are also parts of the kingdom of Agrippa. This [last] country begins at Mount Libanus, and the fountains of Jordan, and reaches breadthways to the lake of Tiberias; and in length is extended from a village called Arpha, as far as Julias. Its inhabitants are a mixture of Jews and Syrians. And thus have I, with all possible brevity, described the country of Judea, and those that lie round about it.

If you look at Revelation 18: 11-13 it describes the merchandise that the merchants of the "earth" will weep & mourn over. It describes these items in great detail. There is a reason for that. So the readers can identify the symbol. The merchandise listed was used for the furnishings of the Temple and the vestments of the high priest. Gold, fine linen, purple & scarlet were used in the high priest's holiest garments which also contained precious stones. Here is an excerpt from the book Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus by Joachim Jeremias. I underlined the items that correspond to the merchandise of "Babylon" (Jerusalem):

We can quote specific examples of trade with Greece…The most valuable of the Temple gates was made of Corinthian bronze…When Agrippa II, with the consent of the people and the chief priests, had decided shortly before AD 66 to provide the Temple building with new substructures and to raise it twenty cubits, he had timber imported from Lebanon at enormous expense, nothing but long, straight beams. From Lebanon also came the cedar wood to roof the arcades…Babylonia exported costly material, woven from blue, scarlet, and purple stuffs, and byssus(fine white linen). These materials were used for example, for the curtain in front of the Holy Place, and for the high priest’s mitre; the priest on duty was clothed in byssus, and it was also used in the ceremonies of the Day of Atonement…Trade with the East, and particularly with Arabia, had always been very brisk. A great quantity of spices(probably the raw materials for the spice trade in Jerusalem), precious stones and gold is brought into the country by the Arabs. The Old Testament already speaks of frankincense from Arabia. The incense used in the Temple came chiefly from the desert; again, cinnamon and cassia are mentioned as spices for the Temple, and both grow in subtropical climates. Pseudo-Aristeas 119 suggests that copper and iron were imported from Arabia….T[almud] Maksh[irin]iii. 4,675 records the import of corn from Egypt into Jerusalem

Also read Ezekiel 16 for a description of Jerusalem as an adulterous wife and pay close attention to verse 13:

13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen.

 

[robycop3]

You still have not explained then. They are two different comings? Where is the millennium in 2nd Peter 3 10
When is the day of the Lord?

No coming associated with 2 Peter - just the destruction of the current earth & the formation of a new one, at least on the surface.

 

[robycop3]

Rome is not Mystery Babylon in Revelation. Most Christians have completely missed the clues within the symbolism in Revelation. Jerusalem didn't have a seaport but it did benefit from trade by sea. Here is a description of that by Josephus in Wars 3,3,5:

5. In the limits of Samaria and Judea lies the village Anuath, which is also named Borceos. This is the northern boundary of Judea. The southern parts of Judea, if they be measured lengthways, are bounded by a Village adjoining to the confines of Arabia; the Jews that dwell there call it Jordan. However, its breadth is extended from the river Jordan to Joppa. The city Jerusalem is situated in the very middle; on which account some have, with sagacity enough, called that city the Navel of the country. Nor indeed is Judea destitute of such delights as come from the sea, since its maritime places extend as far as Ptolemais: it was parted into eleven portions, of which the royal city Jerusalem was the supreme, and presided over all the neighboring country, as the head does over the body. As to the other cities that were inferior to it, they presided over their several toparchies; Gophna was the second of those cities, and next to that Acrabatta, after them Thamna, and Lydda, and Emmaus, and Pella, and Idumea, and Engaddi, and Herodium, and Jericho; and after them came Jamnia and Joppa, as presiding over the neighboring people; and besides these there was the region of Gamala, and Gaulonitis, and Batanea, and Trachonitis, which are also parts of the kingdom of Agrippa. This [last] country begins at Mount Libanus, and the fountains of Jordan, and reaches breadthways to the lake of Tiberias; and in length is extended from a village called Arpha, as far as Julias. Its inhabitants are a mixture of Jews and Syrians. And thus have I, with all possible brevity, described the country of Judea, and those that lie round about it.

If you look at Revelation 18: 11-13 it describes the merchandise that the merchants of the "earth" will weep & mourn over. It describes these items in great detail. There is a reason for that. So the readers can identify the symbol. The merchandise listed was used for the furnishings of the Temple and the vestments of the high priest. Gold, fine linen, purple & scarlet were used in the high priest's holiest garments which also contained precious stones. Here is an excerpt from the book Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus by Joachim Jeremias. I underlined the items that correspond to the merchandise of "Babylon" (Jerusalem):

We can quote specific examples of trade with Greece…The most valuable of the Temple gates was made of Corinthian bronze…When Agrippa II, with the consent of the people and the chief priests, had decided shortly before AD 66 to provide the Temple building with new substructures and to raise it twenty cubits, he had timber imported from Lebanon at enormous expense, nothing but long, straight beams. From Lebanon also came the cedar wood to roof the arcades…Babylonia exported costly material, woven from blue, scarlet, and purple stuffs, and byssus(fine white linen). These materials were used for example, for the curtain in front of the Holy Place, and for the high priest’s mitre; the priest on duty was clothed in byssus, and it was also used in the ceremonies of the Day of Atonement…Trade with the East, and particularly with Arabia, had always been very brisk. A great quantity of spices(probably the raw materials for the spice trade in Jerusalem), precious stones and gold is brought into the country by the Arabs. The Old Testament already speaks of frankincense from Arabia. The incense used in the Temple came chiefly from the desert; again, cinnamon and cassia are mentioned as spices for the Temple, and both grow in subtropical climates. Pseudo-Aristeas 119 suggests that copper and iron were imported from Arabia….T[almud] Maksh[irin]iii. 4,675 records the import of corn from Egypt into Jerusalem

Also read Ezekiel 16 for a description of Jerusalem as an adulterous wife and pay close attention to verse 13:

13 So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen.

And THAT Jerusalem was destroyed, first by the Babs, later by the Romans. jerusalen saw its greatest glory not long before the Babs besieged it.

Rome is served by the Port of Civitavecchia.

We don't see a 3rd destruction of J in Scripture except for when the whole surface of the earth is destroyed & replaced. And J will be replaced by the NEW J, which is in heaven right now.

 

[Revmitchell]

Most Christians have completely missed ...

And this is when you know you are headed down the wrong path.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

And THAT Jerusalem was destroyed, first by the Babs, later by the Romans. jerusalen saw its greatest glory not long before the Babs besieged it.

Rome is served by the Port of Civitavecchia.

We don't see a 3rd destruction of J in Scripture except for when the whole surface of the earth is destroyed & replaced. And J will be replaced by the NEW J, which is in heaven right now.

Rev 18 is describing the destruction of the second Temple symbolized by the harlot sitting on the scarlet beast.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

And THAT Jerusalem was destroyed, first by the Babs, later by the Romans. jerusalen saw its greatest glory not long before the Babs besieged it.

Rome is served by the Port of Civitavecchia.

We don't see a 3rd destruction of J in Scripture except for when the whole surface of the earth is destroyed & replaced. And J will be replaced by the NEW J, which is in heaven right now.

"Earth"in Revelation is the greek word "ge", it is not referring to the whole surface of the planet. It was the Land Of Israel that was destroyed in 70AD.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

Here are some verses from Hebrews 10. Tell me what these mean?

5 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

 

[prophecy70]

No coming associated with 2 Peter - just the destruction of the current earth & the formation of a new one, at least on the surface.

Its not a coming?

I thess 4 and 5

13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

You do not see the day of the Lord as a coming here?

This is the same Day of the Lord in 2nd Peter is it not?

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief.


And if this is after the Millennium how does it come as a thief? You would know the exact date it would happen. 1000 years after Jesus sits on the throne.

 

[prophecy70]

And this is when you know you are headed down the wrong path.

You are very constructive in your responses. I would be proud.

 

[robycop3]

Rev 18 is describing the destruction of the second Temple symbolized by the harlot sitting on the scarlet beast.

No, it's discussing the destruction of a city symbolically called a second Babylon by God.

 

[robycop3]

"Earth"in Revelation is the greek word "ge", it is not referring to the whole surface of the planet. It was the Land Of Israel that was destroyed in 70AD.

No, "ge" does NOT refer to just Israel. It can refer to the whole surface of the world. Jest ask some of the Greek experts here.

Remember, Rev mentions the KINGS(plural) of the "ge". Judea at that time had only ONE king - Caesar.

You're gonna hafta do a LOT better to try to lend any veracity to preterism.

 

[robycop3]

Here are some verses from Hebrews 10. Tell me what these mean?

5 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

No one's reward is any farther than one's FINAL BREATH.

But it's VERY-OBVIOUS Jesus has NOT yet returned.

 

[robycop3]

Its not a coming?

I thess 4 and 5

13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

You do not see the day of the Lord as a coming here?

This is the same Day of the Lord in 2nd Peter is it not?

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief.


And if this is after the Millennium how does it come as a thief? You would know the exact date it would happen. 1000 years after Jesus sits on the throne.

A thief comes suddenly, unexpectedly, lest he get caught or killed. There's no contradiction here. God does NOT have to come to melt the earth.

 

[prophecy70]

A thief comes suddenly, unexpectedly, lest he get caught or killed. There's no contradiction here. God does NOT have to come to melt the earth.

Yes there is a contradiction if you say that happens after the millennium. Everyone on the planet would know what's going to happen when a million souls are reigning with Christ in Jerusalem. In 1000 years the Day or the Lord happens. It surely wouldn't be unexpectedly like a thief.


And 1 Thessalonians 4 is not a coming? It sure looks like that to me.