Still no facts supporting preterism!

[Revelation 20:5]

More horse feathers!

The word rendered "heaven" here in many Bible versions is "ouranos", which means "the sky".

And the four winds blow all over earth, not just in Judea.

And the AOD did NOT occur then, nor has it yet occurred!

And the language is LITERAL!

I highly suggest you toss whatever boox by Preston, gentry, etc. you've been reading & stick to the BIBLE and some good unbiased WORX OF HISTORY!

I agree it was in the sky above Jerusalem. The elect who were on/in the earth were gathered to Christ in the sky and then taken to heaven. The Bible uses the figurative language "on the clouds of heaven". It is the same event recorded in 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17. Read 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 and then read Matthew 24 30-31. It's the exact same event. It occurred near AD70. Matthew 24:34 says: 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Jesus could not be more clear that the events He was describing would all happen before the generation he was speaking to would pass away. Matthew 16:28 confirms this. Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as having to do with the Roman army that surrounded Jerusalem in 70AD. The parable mentioned in Matthew 24 verses 40 & 41 mentions people in the field, 1 taken and the other left etc.If this is Christ coming to earth to set up the "earthly kingdom" why is there rapture language in there?

 

[robycop3]

I agree it was in the sky above Jerusalem.

No, it WASN'T. Aint happened yet.

The elect who were on/in the earth were gathered to Christ in the sky and then taken to heaven. The Bible uses the figurative language "on the clouds of heaven". It is the same event recorded in 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17. Read 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 and then read Matthew 24 30-31. It's the exact same event. It occurred near AD70.

No, it DIDN'T. There have been quite a few Christians on earth at all times ever since Jesus created Christendom. There's never been any time period since then without any Christians on earth.

Matthew 24:34 says: 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

The meaning of genea has been discussed ad nauseam in previous preterism threads, & it's been PROVEN that genea does NOT always mean "generation". And the PROOF it doesn't mean 'generation' in that verse is that THOSE THINGS HAVE NOT YET HAPPENED!

Jesus could not be more clear that the events He was describing would all happen before the generation he was speaking to would pass away.

HISTORY is quite clear that they HAVEN'T yet happened! You've simply gone along with the preterist crowd in defining "genea".[/quote]

Matthew 16:28 confirms this. Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as having to do with the Roman army that surrounded Jerusalem in 70AD.

That's NOT what that verse says! Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

See "abomination" anywhere in that verse????????????

Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

And Daniel 8 & 9 say a MAN of Roman descent shall commit the AOD, not the Roman army. And rev. 13 says he shall set up his image or statue in the temple. Now, that never happened in the previous temples, except when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Jupiter in the temple, but that was before Jesus came, & Jesus said the AOD was still future. And we know the Jews fully intend to build another temple in Jerusalem.

Sound improbable? Well, a hundred years ago, the idea of another Jewish sovereign nation sounded just-as-improbable!

The parable mentioned in Matthew 24 verses 40 & 41 mentions people in the field, 1 taken and the other left etc.If this is Christ coming to earth to set up the "earthly kingdom" why is there rapture language in there?

That's not "rapture language", That's Jesus calling up the TRIB SAINTS to meet Him in the air. The rapture will have already occurred, and those taken will be those who became saints after the rapture & thus had to endure the great trib. Scripture very plainly says they will exist.

I suggest you study HISTORY to see the eschatological events have NOT yet occurred!

Still, NO FACTS supporting preterism, full or partial!

 

[Revelation 20:5]

Read all about it here: The Abomination that Causes Desolation Explained - Revelation Revolution

 

[Covenanter]

Read all about it here: The Abomination that Causes Desolation Explained - Revelation Revolution

Glad you edited that!

 

[robycop3]

Read all about it here: The Abomination that Causes Desolation Explained - Revelation Revolution

This whole article is goofy & full of false info.

First, the Greek depredations led by Antiochus Epiphanes had NOTHING to do with the AOL. Remember, Jesus said it was still future in His Olivet Discourse.

Second, Titus did NOT call down fire from heaven, which is actually LIGHTNING. That act is prophesied for the FALSE PROPHET, the antichrist's deputy, the "beast from the earth" in Rev. 13.

Third, the statue or image to be placed in the temple will be that of the antichrist, as Rev. 13 plainly says, & the antichrist won't be either Zeus nor an eagle. He will be of Roman descent. And Titus was NOT A PRINCE! He was a GENERAL.

Fourth, no part of the temple was left standing. The Romans believed gold had been hidden between its stones, so they pulled it completely apart, against Titus' wishes, thus fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that not one stone of it would be left upon another.

Fifth, no statue or image in the temple or its ruins spoke!

Sixth, Titus worshipped the Roman pantheon of gods, while the true antichrist won't recognize anything called a god but himself.

Seventh, there's absolutely no mention of the mark of the beast being issued.

Again, this whole article is goofy & full of false info,as is all material on any preterist site.

""PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!""

 

[prophecy70]

Three of the disciples saw His transfiguration where he appeared with Moses & Elijah. The others didn't see it.

Oh wow, the others were dead?

Third, the statue or image to be placed in the temple will be that of the antichrist, as Rev. 13 plainly says, & the antichrist won't be either Zeus nor an eagle. He will be of Roman descent. And Titus was NOT A PRINCE! He was a GENERAL.

Show me the word antichrist in Revelation.

That's NOT what that verse says! Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

See "abomination" anywhere in that verse????????????

Its the same verse wrote by two different men meaning the same thing. Do you know what parallelism is?

I suggest you study HISTORY to see the eschatological events have NOT yet occurred!

I dont read the bible "according" to robycop3, Thinking the moon will actually bleed.

The meaning of genea has been discussed ad nauseam in previous preterism threads, & it's been PROVEN that genea does NOT always mean "generation". And the PROOF it doesn't mean 'generation' in that verse is that THOSE THINGS HAVE NOT YET HAPPENED!

Oh it has been proven? I must of missed class that day teacher.

And we know the Jews fully intend to build another temple in Jerusalem.

They have since medieval times.

So what if they do?
show me where the third temple is in the bible. One verse, that mentions the third one.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

This whole article is goofy & full of false info.

First, the Greek depredations led by Antiochus Epiphanes had NOTHING to do with the AOL. Remember, Jesus said it was still future in His Olivet Discourse.

Second, Titus did NOT call down fire from heaven, which is actually LIGHTNING. That act is prophesied for the FALSE PROPHET, the antichrist's deputy, the "beast from the earth" in Rev. 13.

Third, the statue or image to be placed in the temple will be that of the antichrist, as Rev. 13 plainly says, & the antichrist won't be either Zeus nor an eagle. He will be of Roman descent. And Titus was NOT A PRINCE! He was a GENERAL.

Fourth, no part of the temple was left standing. The Romans believed gold had been hidden between its stones, so they pulled it completely apart, against Titus' wishes, thus fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that not one stone of it would be left upon another.

Fifth, no statue or image in the temple or its ruins spoke!

Sixth, Titus worshipped the Roman pantheon of gods, while the true antichrist won't recognize anything called a god but himself.

Seventh, there's absolutely no mention of the mark of the beast being issued.

Again, this whole article is goofy & full of false info,as is all material on any preterist site.

""PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!""

This whole article is goofy & full of false info.

First, the Greek depredations led by Antiochus Epiphanes had NOTHING to do with the AOL. Remember, Jesus said it was still future in His Olivet Discourse.

Second, Titus did NOT call down fire from heaven, which is actually LIGHTNING. That act is prophesied for the FALSE PROPHET, the antichrist's deputy, the "beast from the earth" in Rev. 13.

Third, the statue or image to be placed in the temple will be that of the antichrist, as Rev. 13 plainly says, & the antichrist won't be either Zeus nor an eagle. He will be of Roman descent. And Titus was NOT A PRINCE! He was a GENERAL.

Fourth, no part of the temple was left standing. The Romans believed gold had been hidden between its stones, so they pulled it completely apart, against Titus' wishes, thus fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that not one stone of it would be left upon another.

Fifth, no statue or image in the temple or its ruins spoke!

Sixth, Titus worshipped the Roman pantheon of gods, while the true antichrist won't recognize anything called a god but himself.

Seventh, there's absolutely no mention of the mark of the beast being issued.

Again, this whole article is goofy & full of false info,as is all material on any preterist site.

""PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!""

There are some web sites that I reference in which I don't agree with every bit of information contained within. I mentioned that in a previous post. I think the author of Revelation Revolution did a fantastic job putting the historical information together to show past fulfillment of eschatology although some things may not be 100% accurate. I don't believe Titus is apart of the "beast from the earth"(greek- ge)which is probably more accurately translated "beast of the land"(of pre-70AD Israel). I do believe Titus is apart of the sea beast which is Rome from Julius Caesar to Vespasian represented by the ten crowned horns. Titus was a prince in 70AD... both a general and a prince when his father Vespasian became Roman emperor in AD69 Vespasian | Roman emperor . The sea beast of Revelation is equivalent to the 4th beast of Daniel 7 which according to verse 3 rises up out of the sea representing foreign nations from Israel's perspective. Looking at Judea politically shortly before AD70 there was a faction that benefited from Roman rule. From here on, instead of posting links to certain web pages, I'm going to quote from the web sites the items that I believe are accurate. So here is a quote from a friend of mine who has done an extensive bit of research concerning the beast from the earth in Rev. 13:

represents the combination of Israel's religious and political leadership, rising out of the earth (GE - the land of Israel in particular - not the world at large). Another title for this Land Beast is the "False Prophet", since they believed their function was to identify and prepare the way for Israel's prophesied Messiah-King. This, they presumed, would restore them as a world power similar to the glory of King David and Solomon's days. This explains the Pharisees sending a delegation of Levites and priests to John to inquire if he was this very fulfillment of the Messiah foretold by Daniel 9's 70-week prophecy. The time was right by their computations, and they were expecting His imminent arrival on the scene.

This Land Beast had only two small horns, representing the two major religious sects prevalent at that time - the Pharisees and Sadducees. And it spoke deceptively, like the dragon. We have instances of Christ directly calling these religious leaders in His day liars, as their father, the devil, was a liar. Bringing out false witnesses at Christ's trial was just one more example of the same deceptive practices.

To preserve the level of financial and political power they had under Roman supervision, the Land Beast labored to enforce Judean submission to the Roman Sea Beast. They had a vested interest in placating Roman authority, since that insured the continued flow of riches into their own coffers. The fire called down from heaven by this beast is a picture of their officiating over the fire of God on the temple's altar of sacrifices. And they did their utmost to ensure that Jerusalem and Judea kept the Peace with Rome so that "their place and their nation" would be preserved, as Caiphas wished. "We have no king but Caesar", is a clear indication that their allegiance lay with the "Sea Beast".

One outward visible symbol of this submission to Rome, imposed on all Jews, was the use of the silver Tyrian shekel required for paying the annual temple tax and for all purchased temple offerings. This silver coin was stamped with the image of the demi-god Herakles with the Roman eagle on the reverse side, and the inscribed initials "KP", standing for "Kratos Romaion" - "power of the Romans". Even though the pagan image on it was an abomination in God's temple, for the sake of the purity of this coin's silver content, it was the only accepted currency the priesthood would allow for temple transactions. Hence, the lucrative, corrupt practices of the money-changers profiting from this literal part of the mark of the beast.

We have examples in the gospels of the Land Beast and the Sea Beast working in collaboration. At Christ's trial, Pontius Pilate curried favor with Herod by passing Christ over to him for examination, since Christ belonged to Herod's jurisdiction of Galilee. They became friends that day, as Luke 23:12 says. In Acts 24:27, the Roman governor Felix, "willing to show the Jews a pleasure", leaves Paul bound as Felix's term of office expires. His replacement, governor Festus is also "willing to do the Jews a pleasure" by suggesting that Paul go on trial at Jerusalem.

 

[robycop3]

There are some web sites that I reference in which I don't agree with every bit of information contained within. I mentioned that in a previous post. I think the author of Revelation Revolution did a fantastic job putting the historical information together to show past fulfillment of eschatology although some things may not be 100% accurate. I don't believe Titus is apart of the "beast from the earth"(greek- ge)which is probably more accurately translated "beast of the land"(of pre-70AD Israel). I do believe Titus is apart of the sea beast which is Rome from Julius Caesar to Vespasian represented by the ten crowned horns. Titus was a prince in 70AD... both a general and a prince when his father Vespasian became Roman emperor in AD69 Vespasian | Roman emperor . The sea beast of Revelation is equivalent to the 4th beast of Daniel 7 which according to verse 3 rises up out of the sea representing foreign nations from Israel's perspective. Looking at Judea politically shortly before AD70 there was a faction that benefited from Roman rule. From here on, instead of posting links to certain web pages, I'm going to quote from the web sites the items that I believe are accurate. So here is a quote from a friend of mine who has done an extensive bit of research concerning the beast from the earth in Rev. 13:

represents the combination of Israel's religious and political leadership, rising out of the earth (GE - the land of Israel in particular - not the world at large). Another title for this Land Beast is the "False Prophet", since they believed their function was to identify and prepare the way for Israel's prophesied Messiah-King. This, they presumed, would restore them as a world power similar to the glory of King David and Solomon's days. This explains the Pharisees sending a delegation of Levites and priests to John to inquire if he was this very fulfillment of the Messiah foretold by Daniel 9's 70-week prophecy. The time was right by their computations, and they were expecting His imminent arrival on the scene.

This Land Beast had only two small horns, representing the two major religious sects prevalent at that time - the Pharisees and Sadducees. And it spoke deceptively, like the dragon. We have instances of Christ directly calling these religious leaders in His day liars, as their father, the devil, was a liar. Bringing out false witnesses at Christ's trial was just one more example of the same deceptive practices.

To preserve the level of financial and political power they had under Roman supervision, the Land Beast labored to enforce Judean submission to the Roman Sea Beast. They had a vested interest in placating Roman authority, since that insured the continued flow of riches into their own coffers. The fire called down from heaven by this beast is a picture of their officiating over the fire of God on the temple's altar of sacrifices. And they did their utmost to ensure that Jerusalem and Judea kept the Peace with Rome so that "their place and their nation" would be preserved, as Caiphas wished. "We have no king but Caesar", is a clear indication that their allegiance lay with the "Sea Beast".

One outward visible symbol of this submission to Rome, imposed on all Jews, was the use of the silver Tyrian shekel required for paying the annual temple tax and for all purchased temple offerings. This silver coin was stamped with the image of the demi-god Herakles with the Roman eagle on the reverse side, and the inscribed initials "KP", standing for "Kratos Romaion" - "power of the Romans". Even though the pagan image on it was an abomination in God's temple, for the sake of the purity of this coin's silver content, it was the only accepted currency the priesthood would allow for temple transactions. Hence, the lucrative, corrupt practices of the money-changers profiting from this literal part of the mark of the beast.

We have examples in the gospels of the Land Beast and the Sea Beast working in collaboration. At Christ's trial, Pontius Pilate curried favor with Herod by passing Christ over to him for examination, since Christ belonged to Herod's jurisdiction of Galilee. They became friends that day, as Luke 23:12 says. In Acts 24:27, the Roman governor Felix, "willing to show the Jews a pleasure", leaves Paul bound as Felix's term of office expires. His replacement, governor Festus is also "willing to do the Jews a pleasure" by suggesting that Paul go on trial at Jerusalem.

Again, that whole article is full of goofy stuff, conhecture, false info, opinion, guesswork, & just plain STUPIDITY. A prime example is the silly notion that the images on Roman coins was the mark of the beast. if that's true, then several US presidents were "beast-ettes"!

I suggest you read some CREDIBLE, UNBIASED sources of history such as the well-known encyclopediae, etc. The article you posted is from a pret site & is about as truthful as the witnesses who testified against Jesus.

 

[robycop3]

Oh wow, the others were dead?

Not then, but they died without seeing anything like Jesus' transfiguration.

Show me the word antichrist in Revelation.

It's IMPLIED. Several Scriptures mention a coming great world ruler, and it'll be ONE MAN, with a false prophet as his deputy.

Its the same verse wrote by two different men meaning the same thing. Do you know what parallelism is?

Daniel said ONE MAN will commit the AOD, not an army.

I dont read the bible "according" to robycop3, Thinking the moon will actually bleed.

But ya read it according to Alcazar, Preston, Gentry, & other pret charlatans.

Oh it has been proven? I must of missed class that day teacher.

I don't see one quark of EVIDENCE proving they HAVE. I have repeatedly asked for such proof, & all I've seen are goofy stories, conjecture, opinion, & guesswork. NO FACTS!

They have since medieval times.

So what if they do?
show me where the third temple is in the bible. One verse, that mentions the third one.

Daniel said the evil man would stop the daily sacrifices.There must be a temple for that to happen.

Paul said the "man of sin" would enter the temple & declare himself God. That didn't happen in the old temples, so it'll happen in a new one.

 

[Covenanter]

Daniel said the evil man would stop the daily sacrifices.There must be a temple for that to happen.

Paul said the "man of sin" would enter the temple & declare himself God. That didn't happen in the old temples, so it'll happen in a new one.

There was a temple, & the daily sacrifices were stopped.

Neither you, nor I, were in Jerusalem when the destruction took place. There is no inspired record of those events, just inspired prophecy.

If you were to believe the Scriptures you wouldn't write the way you do.

 

[prophecy70]

But ya read it according to Alcazar, Preston, Gentry, & other pret charlatans.

And this is why your credibility to me is that of an empty salt shaker.
When you start calling people you don't understand charlatans.

 

[prophecy70]

Paul said the "man of sin" would enter the temple & declare himself God. That didn't happen in the old temples, so it'll happen in a new one.

WHERE IS THE PROOF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN? WHERE YOU THERE?

THE THIRD TEMPLE IS AS PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE AND A CHEVY MUSTANG.

THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT FUTURISM IS PHONY. YOU CAN NOT PROVE THE THIRD TEMPLE OR THE AOD.

This is how you sound, And you expect us to listen to you?

 

[robycop3]

There was a temple, & the daily sacrifices were stopped.

But not by the "beast'.

Neither you, nor I, were in Jerusalem when the destruction took place. There is no inspired record of those events, just inspired prophecy.

But several Romans, Jews, & others left a record of the events. Plus, there are many archaeological digs providing evidence of that destruction, plus the ruins of the temple.

If you were to believe the Scriptures you wouldn't write the way you do.

If you'd quit reading & believing the works of charlatans, you'd quit saying this-n-that have already happened when they HAVEN'T.

If those events had already occurred, the earth would be much-different from what it was back then. However, aside from modern inventions, everything is basically the sameas it was then. with nations, governments, eating, drinking, marrying & giving in marriage. Satan is still loose & sin is prevalent thruout the world.

 

[robycop3]

And this is why your credibility to me is that of an empty salt shaker.
When you start calling people you don't understand charlatans.

I understand them well. They're presenting a false doctrine & are therefore charlatans.

 

[robycop3]

WHERE IS THE PROOF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN? WHERE YOU THERE?

The burden of proof is upon the PRETERISTS. I don't hafta prove a negative. Just as in an earthly court of law, the state must PROVE a defendant committed the crime in question - the defendand doesn't hafta prove he/she didn't do it. THE STATE MUST PROVE HE/SHE DID!

Thus, the preterist must ***PROVE*** the prophesied events he SAYS have already happened, actually HAVE already happened, and so far the prets are batting ZERO in the proof dept.

THE THIRD TEMPLE IS AS PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE AND A CHEVY MUSTANG.

Just cuz it aint yet been built doesn't mean it WON'T be!

THE SIMPLE FACT IS THAT FUTURISM IS PHONY. YOU CAN NOT PROVE THE THIRD TEMPLE OR THE AOD.

This is how you sound, And you expect us to listen to you?

Not REALLY. YOU have the burden to prove the events have already occurred, & so far you've fallen on yer snoot.

My proof is that SCRIPTURE says those things WILL occur. You have NO proof they already have!

 

[prophecy70]

The burden of proof is upon the PRETERISTS. I don't hafta prove a negative. Just as in an earthly court of law, the state must PROVE a defendant committed the crime in question - the defendand doesn't hafta prove he/she didn't do it. THE STATE MUST PROVE HE/SHE DID!

Thus, the preterist must ***PROVE*** the prophesied events he SAYS have already happened, actually HAVE already happened, and so far the prets are batting ZERO in the proof dept.



Just cuz it aint yet been built doesn't mean it WON'T be!



Not REALLY. YOU have the burden to prove the events have already occurred, & so far you've fallen on yer snoot.

My proof is that SCRIPTURE says those things WILL occur. You have NO proof they already have!

The burden of proof is upon the PRETERISTS. I don't hafta prove a negative. Just as in an earthly court of law, the state must PROVE a defendant committed the crime in question - the defendand doesn't hafta prove he/she didn't do it. THE STATE MUST PROVE HE/SHE DID!

Thus, the preterist must ***PROVE*** the prophesied events he SAYS have already happened, actually HAVE already happened, and so far the prets are batting ZERO in the proof dept.



Just cuz it aint yet been built doesn't mean it WON'T be!



Not REALLY. YOU have the burden to prove the events have already occurred, & so far you've fallen on yer snoot.

My proof is that SCRIPTURE says those things WILL occur. You have NO proof they already have!

Salt shaker

 

[prophecy70]

I understand them well. They're presenting a false doctrine & are therefore charlatans.

According to robycop3?

 

[Revelation 20:5]

Again, that whole article is full of goofy stuff, conhecture, false info, opinion, guesswork, & just plain STUPIDITY. A prime example is the silly notion that the images on Roman coins was the mark of the beast. if that's true, then several US presidents were "beast-ettes"!

I suggest you read some CREDIBLE, UNBIASED sources of history such as the well-known encyclopediae, etc. The article you posted is from a pret site & is about as truthful as the witnesses who testified against Jesus.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", I am going to provide a link to Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Ch. 5. This is not from a "biased" preterist web site. Eusebius was a 4th century Christian pioneer. Eusebius connected the abomination of desolation with the destruction of the temple in 70AD. Click on Book III and then Chapter 5 http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0265-0339,_Eusebius_Caesariensis,_Church_History,_EN.pdf

Here is the quote:

But the number of calamities which every where fell
upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the
inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of
men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by
famine, and by other forms of death innumerable, all these things, as
well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the
cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that
fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the
general course of the whole war, as well as its particular
occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation,
proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so
celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and
final destruction by fire, all these things any one that wishes may
find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.

Historical evidence from an unbiased source.

 

[robycop3]

Salt shaker

YOUR shaker is without salt.

With all due respect, Sir, please do the CHRISTIAN thing & ***PROVE*** your assertions, or admit you were deceived. If the eschatological events up to Jesus' parousia have already occurred, they shouldn't be hard to PROVE, given their scope & profoundness.

So, please stop trying to move the goal posts & PRESENT SOME PROOF for your preterist doctrine!

 

[robycop3]

According to robycop3?

And according to REALITY. You have NOT presented one quark of PROOF for your assertions. Please do so or admit you've been deceived.