Still no facts supporting preterism!

[robycop3]

We left off in the previous thread with a question about whether there were actually Jews from every nation that then existed, or only Jews from every nation known to the apostles who heard peter preach at "the first pentecost". I believe the latter is true, as there's no evidence there were either any Jews or Christians in Japan at the time.

But...Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

I, and several others, have repeatedly asked the preterists here to present some PROOF the eschatological events prophesied by Jesus and other prophets have already occurred, and all we've seen on several now-closed threads are excuses, bunny trails, conjecture, and guesswork.

However, nothing but proof that those events have happened will verify the veracity of preterist assertions.

So, once again, preterists, here's your chanve to PROVE your doctrine is true. If you can't, the Christian thing to do is to admit it's false and you were deceived. GO FOR IT!

 

[BobRyan]

Preterism does not survive Matthew 24 or Rev 20 or Rev 6 or Rev 12 or Rev 22 or ...

 

[robycop3]

True. A quick comparison with history will show those prophesied events have NOT yet occurred. preterists just CANNOT get by that FACT.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ! This is my very 1st post on this board.(my parents were Baptists for many years). I'm a partial preterist, both amillennial and post-millennial at the same time. I tried to reply on another thread discussing the Porousia but did not have privileges. Here is a verse to consider and I'm curious how the futurists are explaining this nowadays: Matthew 16:27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

 

[HankD]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ! This is my very 1st post on this board.(my parents were Baptists for many years). I'm a partial preterist, both amillennial and post-millennial at the same time. I tried to reply on another thread discussing the Porousia but did not have privileges. Here is a verse to consider and I'm curious how the futurists are explaining this nowadays: Matthew 16:27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Well, how do we know if Enoch and Elijah weren't in the listening audience and/or others destined to remain until the parousia?

As I said before preterists ask us to believe the incredulous - so how about my question of incredulity ?

HankD

 

[Alcott]

If the events told about by Jesus have already taken place, how is it true that "not one stone (of the temple) will be left on top of another," when there is still that o.e wall standing?

 

[Revelation 20:5]

Well, how do we know if Enoch and Elijah weren't in the listening audience and/or others destined to remain until the parousia?

As I said before preterists ask us to believe the incredulous - so how about my question of incredulity ?

HankD

Brother Hank, Matthew 16 verse 21 states that Jesus was speaking to his disciples. There is no mention of Enoch and/or Elijah being in attendance. That is a huge assumption on your part. Christ is clear that some there at the time he made those statements would not be dead when they saw Christ come in his kingdom.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

If the events told about by Jesus have already taken place, how is it true that "not one stone (of the temple) will be left on top of another," when there is still that o.e wall standing?

Alcott, that is a very good question. Ernest Martin provides clear evidence that the "wailing wall" in Jerusalem was not part of Temple that existed during the time of Herod & Jesus. You can read all about it here: The Strange Story of the False Wailing Wall

 

[kyredneck]

the "wailing wall" in Jerusalem was not part of Temple

Bingo.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

We left off in the previous thread with a question about whether there were actually Jews from every nation that then existed, or only Jews from every nation known to the apostles who heard peter preach at "the first pentecost". I believe the latter is true, as there's no evidence there were either any Jews or Christians in Japan at the time.

But...Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

I, and several others, have repeatedly asked the preterists here to present some PROOF the eschatological events prophesied by Jesus and other prophets have already occurred, and all we've seen on several now-closed threads are excuses, bunny trails, conjecture, and guesswork.

However, nothing but proof that those events have happened will verify the veracity of preterist assertions.

So, once again, preterists, here's your chanve to PROVE your doctrine is true. If you can't, the Christian thing to do is to admit it's false and you were deceived. GO FOR IT!

Brother Robycop, This web site provides an incredible amount of historical evidence for the fulfillment of the prophecies of Daniel, Jesus, and the Apostle John occurring in the 66-73 A.D time period: All Prophecies Fulfilled! | 817-793-9461 | Preterist Bible Commentary 1st century historians such as Josephus has recorded eyewitness accounts of heavenly armies in conflict in the clouds above Jerusalem starting in the year 66AD. Jesus, the Son of Man, was LITERALLY Seen in the Clouds in A.D. 66 - Revelation Revolution

To prevent confusion concerning my position, the web site All Prophecies Fulfilled! | 817-793-9461 | Preterist Bible Commentary is a full preterist web site. However, I'm a partial preterist. I reference Revelation Revolution because of the amount of historical research that Dr. Morais has done.

My position is somewhat unique even among partial preterists. I see the parousia of Christ as occurring in the 66-73 AD time period which included a resurrection gathering event. It is the same event described in Revelation 20:5 : (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. This resurrection event is also described in Daniel 12 verses 1 & 2. In Matthew 24 it is described in verses 30 & 31. So the 1st resurrection in Rev 20:5 occurred near 70 AD. There must be a second resurrection gathering in our future. I see us either approaching Revelation 20 verse 7 or already in Rev 20:7 toward the end of the "thousand years" which is a symbolic number of years(not a literal 1000 years) meaning a very long period of time. If we are in the period in which the 1st century adversary has been released to deceive the nations again, that explains a lot of the darkness that we are witnessing these days.

 

[HankD]

Brother Hank, Matthew 16 verse 21 states that Jesus was speaking to his disciples. There is no mention of Enoch and/or Elijah being in attendance. That is a huge assumption on your part. Christ is clear that some there at the time he made those statements would not be dead when they saw Christ come in his kingdom.

Any believer is a disciple of the incarnate God.

Also there may be those here on earth who were there at the discourse whom God has preserved alive to this very day.

Hard to believe?

Well, preterists have offered believers an incredulity - that all scripture has been fulfilled.

HankD

 

[kyredneck]

Well, preterists have offered believers an incredulity - that all scripture has been fulfilled.

Do you have it on record of any Preterist here that has actually stated that? Provide a link?

 

[Covenanter]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ! This is my very 1st post on this board.(my parents were Baptists for many years). I'm a partial preterist, both amillennial and post-millennial at the same time. I tried to reply on another thread discussing the Porousia but did not have privileges. Here is a verse to consider and I'm curious how the futurists are explaining this nowadays: Matthew 16:27-28

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Welcome to the forum - you'll soon find you have friends in agreement, as well as friends who disagree.

Ian

 

[Revelation 20:5]

Thank you for the welcome Brother Ian.

 

[HankD]

Do you have it on record of any Preterist here that has actually stated that? Provide a link?

Yes I remember when the issue of preterism began that some admitted to being full preterists to the extent stated.
I have tried to scan through the myriad posts in the "preterist" related posts in the archives but its difficult sifting though it.

I believe asterisktom was one though he may have recapitulated the "all is fulfilled" position.

Another difficulty is trying to determine what is meant by the term "partial-preterist".

So rather than consume valuable time scanning for the aforementioned declaration of "all scripture is fulfilled" I will rescind the statement above until I find the requested declaration or a Full Preterist who believes "all scripture has been fulfilled" or find one who has the courage to admit it.

For the sake of the debate however I will define a Full Preterist thusly;

Anyone who denies that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is a future, visible and bodily return to the earth in His Glorified Resurrected Body.

HankD

 

[Revelation 20:5]

HankD, I have to disagree with your definition of Full Preterism. Full Preterism is the belief that all prophecy recorded in the Bible has past fulfillment. In other words any prophetic statement made in the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 has already been fulfilled.

 

[HankD]

HankD, I have to disagree with your definition of Full Preterism. Full Preterism is the belief that all prophecy recorded in the Bible has past fulfillment. In other words any prophetic statement made in the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 has already been fulfilled.

Then you would say that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ has already happened and is not a future, visible, bodily return to the earth in His Glorified Resurrected Body.

Correct?

Thanks.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Preterism and all its flavors is often difficult to nail down as has been shown.


HankD

 

[kyredneck]

Preterism and all its flavors is often difficult to nail down as has been shown.

ROFGuffawing!!!

Poll For The Dispensationalists_Which Are You?

 

[kyredneck]

Preterism and all its flavors is often difficult to nail down as has been shown.

From that poll:

Dispensationalism seems to be and always has been a moving target.

Lol....

Really hard to 'nail down' a moving target, don't you think Hank?

Lol....