Still waiting for an answer

Psalms,

What you're saying is too much. The NT hadn't even been written yet when Jesus said that.

What did Jesus say is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth? The Bible? He didn't even say the OT was, which was written then, he said it was The Church.

[ August 18, 2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Astralis ]

 

That isn't the teaching of the Church. That is discipline.

Again, let's look at what Jesus said. Paul and Christ himself warned us that there would be a few ravenous wolves among Church leaders (Acts 20:29; Matt. 7:15).

BTW, these atrocities goes both ways or do you disagree with this too?

 

I meant Paul, sorry. Now are you saying that Scripture isn't inspired? You'll do anything to prove your point.

[ August 18, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Astralis ]

 

Isn't that the height of hypocrisy? Discipline is based on doctrine (teaching). Without doctrine (as posted above) there would be no discipline. He was disciplined because of his doctrine or teaching. How say you "That isn't the teaching."

 

Discipline can be abused.

Again, the Church is not just for the elect.

 

William Tyndale was obviously one of the elect. He was the one who was largely responsible for giving to us our King James Bible. Who are you to say that he is not one of God's elect? That again is the mark of a cult. Tyndale dared to defy the teaching of the church and was burned at the stake. There was no religious freedom, no soul liberty. That is not discpline; it is uncivilized barbarity. It was Tyndale who held to the Truth of God's Word and died for it. The Catholic Church "disciplined" (sic) him for not agreeing with their heresies. This example shows how the Catholic church does not have the correct interpretation of the Bible, and never did. They killed innocent and God-fearing men.
DHK

 

DHK,

I'm not going to defend some of the leaders of the Catholic Church for the wrong that happened.

Some of the leaders have done wrong, but like Jesus said, that is expected. This does not compromise, at all, the integrity of the Catholic Church.

Just like the local Baptist Church minister here in Houston who was just arrested for sexually abusing boys in his church, shall we cast a millstone around his neck or around all Baptist Churches? If it's Catholic, I know what you would do.

I can also bring up many atrocities by Protestant leaders against Catholics but that doesn't prove anything except that we are sinners.

 

What about the Fundamentalist churches in the South who use the Bible to defend segregation?

They use doctrine against honest, God-fearing, innocent Christians.

 

The point is, you can't prove much of anything. You can't prove the CC is the pillar, you can't prove Peter was the first pope and you certainly can't prove that the gates of hell haven't prevailed against the CC. What you are espousing is faith in a heirachy which is unbiblical, belief in a system which adds requirements to salvation and blind adoration to a history which is unChrist-like. I, for one, will not believe in such and organization anymore than I would the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses or Muslims. All those systems fail the test of Christ and Scripture as does the Catholic system.

If you choose to believe this system, go ahead. But don't expect us to stop trying to talk you off that ledge. As Christians, it is our job to see that everyone is aware of the true Christ, the true God. We cannot sit idly by as someone washes themselves with unholy blood just because "someone told them it was right". We, as Christians, must do everything we can to get our brothers and sisters out of all such cults (Mormons, JW, Muslims and Catholics).

The simple fact is you have faith in the system for some reason, some personal reason. That is fine, we might even be able to respect that even though we can't understand it. But for you to twist scripture and Christ to point to the CC as THE church spits in the face of Christ and not only irritates Christians, it makes us foam at the mouth in anger. Don't poke the bear and don't swat the hive.

In Christ,
jason

 

It is reprehensible. What is your point? Oh I know, the common character attack. Well, no one should use a character attack when trying to either defend to proclaim a position so if a some non-catholic did, I am sorry.

Simple fact is, we are all sinners, but the burden of prove is upon catholics to prove that their CC is the pillar and that the gates of hell have not prevailed.

In Christ,
jason

 

Good. We're in agreement.

I think it would be news for most Catholics to learn that the Gates of Hell have prevailed against His Church nullifying Jesus' promise.

Perhaps you can show how this has happened, then we can move from there.

 

Good. We're in agreement.

I think it would be news for most Catholics to learn that the Gates of Hell have prevailed against His Church nullifying Jesus' promise.

Perhaps you can show how this has happened, then we can move from there.</font>[/QUOTE]You're assuming that the Catholic interpretation of that verse is correct.

 

What? Is there some secret meaning we Catholics are unaware of?

Suppose YOU interpret it for us. I'd like to see it how it should really read.

Cordially in disagreement,

Brother Ed

 

The Catholic church's interpretation is based on the faulty belief that it is the Church, but the Church is the body of believers in Christ (ie. if you are in Christ you are in the Church as opposed to if you are Catholic you are in the Church), it is not an organization of this world as the Catholic church is. The Gospel is still being preached 2000 years after Christ, but the Catholic church is not the one preaching it. Since the Gospel of Christ is still being preached by believers in Christ, the gates of hell have not prevailled over the Church, though it can be said that they have prevailed over the Roman Catholic church.

 

You all are mixed up. Read your Bible.The church began with John the Baptist. It is the REAL BRIDE OF CHRIST, not a worldly Babylonian harlot which worships idols and following after the traditions and doctrine of men. Revelation 17 the entire chapter, especially verse 9. Doth not Rome set upon seven hills. And what whore hath made herself drunken with the blood of the saints and espoused the whorish doctrines of Baal or Babylon more than Rome. Vs.16 Be assured this whore shall fall for broad is the way that leadeth unto destruction and many there be that go in there at. Might does not make right, nor just because a large number espouse a certain belief does it make it true. Scripture and Scripture alone.

 

Sov. Grace,

Nice, but you'll have a hard time finding an intelligent Protestant to believe in your myths.

You should find more persuasive arguments to attack Catholics rather than from Jack Chick comic books.