Yes, we should stop. You obviously don't believe that God is able to solve your problems if you have the faith and trust to take them to Him. You are searching for a worldly way of solving your issues. I can't help you there, and unfortunately you will continue to suffer and never find your answer in worldly ways.
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Suicide and does it guarantee....
- Thread starter Jkdbuck76
- Start date
Yes, we should stop. You obviously don't believe that God is able to solve your problems if you have the faith and trust to take them to Him. You are searching for a worldly way of solving your issues. I can't help you there, and unfortunately you will continue to suffer and never find your answer in worldly ways.
Worldly ways was the only way I got out of it. When your roof leaks, sooner or later you have to climb up and patch the thing, simple trust doesn't do much. Hey but thanks for sounding understandi, I mean, condescending.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Ungh ungh. Don't ever do that. We all know that ultimately Jesus Christ is the answer. But Jesus works through people and people on that ledge often times need a flesh a bone Jesus to come to their rescue.
Don't condemn people to a life of suffering and no answers just because you're missing the point that Jesus can show up and work through people and the answer be no less Jesus than falling on your face and begging Him.
Saving the physical life works the same way as saving the spiritual life. Somebody has to GO and speak the truth that sets men free. Somebody has to get their hands dirty.
What's being missed here is mental health in general. It seems that some people think it is trivial and easily avoidable. Well, not so much. Once things get jacked up in your head for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter how much trust you have or think you had. This is why people resort to suicide. You don't think rationally at that point, logic flies out the window, there is no joy in anything. People who are at this point need help, period. If anyone actually cared, they'd learn to recognize the warning signs and reach out to those who fit the bill, [crude filth deleted]
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preacher4truth
Active Member
matt wade sounds similar to Jobs 'friends' 'a miserable comforter'. (Job 16:2)
Exactly. Sometimes, possibly most of the time, the best result you can hope for is that God will send people to help. Matt doesn't get that at all.
I never said you shouldn't accept help and comfort from other people. The question is, where are you seeking help and comfort, in the Lord or man? If you are seeking it from man, you are seeking in the wrong place. Our confidence should be in the Lord and we should understand that he works in many ways.
I'm not advocating a position of refusing all help unless it comes in the form of a bright light and miracle from the heavens. I'm advocating a position of placing our faith in God and leaning on him completely. if my car breaks down, I trust that God has a plan, but I still break out the wrenches and fix it. I'm not trusting in my ability to fix the car, I'm trusting in God that he will give me the strength to get through the situation and the wisdom on how to deal with it.
I'm not dismissing anyone with a superiority complex.
Don't think I'm tooting my horn, I've had dark times,
...times where I didn't care weather I lived or died - and really would have rather died.
Go back far enough in the "men's forum" and you might catch a hint of the cause.
But in my depression I was still close to God.
I've never been suicidal.
It must be a terrible place!
I was speaking from my feelings of remorse over what those who committed suicide left behind.
I'm still angry at a friends son who is no longer with us.
Years later the family still grieves.
One of my favorite Psalms is Psalm 88
Rob
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Exactly. If it were just an issue of being rationale, no one would ever get to that point.
Yep.
Absolutely. And I'm telling ya, it's not gonna mean a hill of beans to the person unless you're willing to get in the trenches with them and fight for them when they feel incapable of fighting alone.
Be the hands and feet of Jesus!
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Matt, people at their wit's end are generally absent of their confidence in anything. That's why God uses people to restore that confidence in HIM. There is no greater way to restore confidence in Jesus Christ as your Keeper and Sustainer than for someone to show up and love on the person the way that Jesus Christ would.
You're again missing that part about everything falling apart. Everything going wrong. Everything failing. If NOTHING seems to be working the way you thought it should, it can take away your trust in ANYTHING.
Part of God using other people in these situations is to show the person that God DOES still care even when it looks like He doesn't as your world is falling apart. When you're down in a ditch, sometimes you need somebody else with stronger legs to crawl down in there with ya and help you to climb out.
Again, tell that to the child who has been repeatedly molested from foster home to foster home who is ready to take his life. Sometimes you've got to trust that God is gonna send some roadside assistance.
There is verse after verse in the Bible that speaks about trusting God. They don't speak about trusting God because of the acts of man, they all speak of trusting God because of God. Because God is good. Because God is trustworthy. Because God is the provider of all things.
This hypothetical molested child needs someone to trust that is beyond reproach. This IS God!
This hypothetical molested child needs someone to trust that is beyond reproach. This IS God!
Zaac
Well-Known Member
And God sent that hypothetical child Himself inside the Saint.
We had a friend, and a pillar of the local artist community blow his brains out on Friday. Three months ago he tried it with a bottle of Benadryl, a fifth of whiskey, and a bag tied over his head. Six months before that he drove his motorcycle off a cliff.
Anybody who tried to help him in the end, all either had something stolen, or had to have the cops evict him, or had an equally awful experience. In the last years, if you even answered his call, it meant he was going to try and take you for a ride.
He did sober up a few years ago, and got a job as the organist at the local United Methodist "Church", but he fell off the wagon, pawned the equipment they had given him, and stole what he could.
I'm going to his funeral on Friday, and expect to see a lot of those he hurt come and pay their last respects. He told me he was an atheist, but he was respectful about people's beliefs.
Back in the old days, we talked a lot about the American Libertarian movement, and we went to meet Ron Paul together. He was a fantastic keyboard player, and could improvise over several different styles. Before the booze took ahold, he was an absolute joy to share a stage with.
Then he started missing gigs, pawning his, AND OTHER PEOPLE's equipment away, having drug dealers showing up and asking us for money…..sorry, he was kicked out of the band he loved. And none of us regretted it. He met with the same fate everywhere. people got tired of his drunkenness.
He knew I loved him, although, I could not justify him taking advantage of me one more time. I do know he had a lot of folks praying for him, including everyone in this household.
He shot himself right in front of a cop. I have no idea how he got a gun, nobody who knew him would have given him one.
Anybody who tried to help him in the end, all either had something stolen, or had to have the cops evict him, or had an equally awful experience. In the last years, if you even answered his call, it meant he was going to try and take you for a ride.
He did sober up a few years ago, and got a job as the organist at the local United Methodist "Church", but he fell off the wagon, pawned the equipment they had given him, and stole what he could.
I'm going to his funeral on Friday, and expect to see a lot of those he hurt come and pay their last respects. He told me he was an atheist, but he was respectful about people's beliefs.
Back in the old days, we talked a lot about the American Libertarian movement, and we went to meet Ron Paul together. He was a fantastic keyboard player, and could improvise over several different styles. Before the booze took ahold, he was an absolute joy to share a stage with.
Then he started missing gigs, pawning his, AND OTHER PEOPLE's equipment away, having drug dealers showing up and asking us for money…..sorry, he was kicked out of the band he loved. And none of us regretted it. He met with the same fate everywhere. people got tired of his drunkenness.
He knew I loved him, although, I could not justify him taking advantage of me one more time. I do know he had a lot of folks praying for him, including everyone in this household.
He shot himself right in front of a cop. I have no idea how he got a gun, nobody who knew him would have given him one.
Agree with you abortion is a sin, of murder, but capital punishment cannot be a sin, if done in manner as God proscribed it!
Once again, exactly. Rational people who experience a simple setback such as the car breaking down that was mentioned will handle it in a rational and straightforward way. However if you're having problems already and your entire world falls apart, that's another thing entirely.
I mentioned the insomnia due to back problems earlier, but that was only the root cause. On top of that I experienced my wife having a miscarriage, my old dog getting ran over by a redneck who ran a stop sign, my grandfather and cousin both died from cancer, my previously mentioned roof got 17 leaks in it, my car was breaking down all the time, all this stuff together presented serious financial issues, I started having problems at work, the insomnia caused significant confusion which affected lots of things, had a family member attack me which caused significant marital stress, it was just one thing right after another in a short period of time. Like you said, my entire world fell apart. You can't compare this to a simple car breakdown where you asked Jesus for the strength to turn your ratchet.
Sorry to hear that man. It is extremely hard to have keep reaching out with little hope of a positive response. Sounds like you did as much as possible. Thanks for sharing that.
A lot of people did, and a lot of them gave up after being used so many times.
Hollywood prides itself on it's generosity and sense of community, and people helping each other, yet Robin Williams died alone. It's an awful deal.
But there is no sense of beating ourselves up, or questioning our faith, when we fail in stopping someone from self-destructing. All we can do is let our light shine.
Hollywood prides itself on it's generosity and sense of community, and people helping each other, yet Robin Williams died alone. It's an awful deal.
But there is no sense of beating ourselves up, or questioning our faith, when we fail in stopping someone from self-destructing. All we can do is let our light shine.
I had an uncle commit suicide, the man was shot down in his fighter jet behind enemy lines in the Korean war and got stuck there for awhile. Used his Ka-Bar knife to kill two soldiers who tried to take him captive. Got home, got depressed as many veterans do, then realized his wife had been messing around on him. Took a spray paint can and wrote the names of all her lovers all over the walls in their nice home then killed himself.
Speaking of veterans, we have a very obvious epidemic on our hands, at least 22 vets per day are offing themselves. Would really like to hear what exactly everyone here has done to reach out to this group. They're not going to come cry in your lap you know.
Speaking of veterans, we have a very obvious epidemic on our hands, at least 22 vets per day are offing themselves. Would really like to hear what exactly everyone here has done to reach out to this group. They're not going to come cry in your lap you know.
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Here's a great example that looking at statistics, without the full picture is misleading.
22 vets a day commit suicide! We have an epidemic on our hands!
What isn't shown above is that ~88 people in the US commit suicide daily. So that puts the vet ratio at 25% of the total suicides. Man, still looks bad huh?
The missing # is that 25% of males in the US are vets.
#'s make more sense now, don't they?
How crass can you possibly be?
The rate among vets is 30 per 100,000 people. The rate among normal civilians is 14. Last time I checked, that is over twice as many as usual.
However, if you look at the under 30 age group, vets are triple the normal rate.
Play number games all you want, but yeah that's kinda bad.
No, not really, no. There were 316,128,839 people estimated to be in this country in 2013. 23.3% of those were under 18, leaving about 243,419,206 adults. There are about 22,658,000 vets in general. So, no your 1 in 4 numbers don't add up. Even if every vet was a male it still wouldn't be 25%.
Regardless, what you are missing, is the fact that it is the younger vets coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan that is the problem. The statistics get diluted if you start counting all vets of every age group. Not to disrespect the plight of the older guys, but the epidemic is with the young guys, those numbers are very high, and even then not all are counted.
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