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Summarizing the Mistakes of Calvinism

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gb93433

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mont974x4 said:
You have been answered but you refuse to acknowledge it, unless of course you are simply blind to the truth. I won't claim to know which is the truth but I have a hard time believing you are honestly "seeking the truth" regardless of the reason. I will promise to pray the Lord reveals the truth to you. That is the nature of irresistible grace. We may make rejections for years, resisting God's grace, but at His appointed time His grace will overwhelm our ability to resist. Someone smarter than me referred to this process as the "Hounds of Heaven".
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Did you forget 1 Peter 3:15?
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
mont974x4 said:
For the simple fact that He does, in fact, tell us that is what He did in the book of Romans. In reality the fact that God is no respecter of persons is precisely why His favor is unmerited. He chose based according to His own will, not according to social status, intellect, nationality, or any other bias typical of fallen man.
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If God choose any particularity then there had to be a basis for this choosing. For instance I believe Christ died for everyone so that if they believe they could be saved. Therefore He wasn't picky. He only had requirements that we submit, Believe, and have faith. Your doctrine of election is picky and is why it makes God a respector of particular men. Only certain ones, just screams! partiality. No one is partial with out reason. Any reason doesn't matter. If God looked down through time and could see you would believe or for any reason makes God a respector. This is why your doctrine of election is flawed.
MB
 
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seekingthetruth

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MB said:
If God choose any particularity then there had to be a basis for this choosing. For instance I believe Christ died for everyone so that if they believe they could be saved. Therefore He wasn't picky. He only had requirements that we submit, Believe, and have faith. Your doctrine of election is picky and is why it makes God a respector of particular men. Only certain ones, just screams! partiality. No one is partial with out reason. Any reason doesn't matter. If God looked down through time and could see you would believe or for any reason makes God a respector. This is why your doctrine of election is flawed.
MB
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Good post MB :thumbs:

John
 
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gb93433

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MB said:
If God choose any particularity then there had to be a basis for this choosing. For instance I believe Christ died for everyone so that if they believe they could be saved. Therefore He wasn't picky. He only had requirements that we submit, Believe, and have faith. Your doctrine of election is picky and is why it makes God a respector of particular men. Only certain ones, just screams! partiality. No one is partial with out reason. Any reason doesn't matter. If God looked down through time and could see you would believe or for any reason makes God a respector. This is why your doctrine of election is flawed.
MB
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Are you saying that God is consistent with His nature and that the called are many and the chosen (the called out from the called ones) are few? The idea being that God could not be so stupid to have the same number of called and those who respond to the call simply because he extends the call to everyone and not the same number as those who respond to the call by faith. If the called and chosen were equal then Judas would make God a liar. Seeing that the called is more than the called out from the called ones, then the calling must be greater than the called out from the called ones (chosen).

I wonder what some do with those who are predestined to good works?

I wonder what some do with vs. 4 in the prayer of encouragement in Eph 1?

It seems that some do not know the difference between "called" and "chosen".
 
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seekingthetruth

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gb93433 said:
Are you saying that God is consistent with His nature and that the called are many and the chosen (the called out from the called ones) are few? The idea being that God could not be so stupid to have the same number of called and those who respond to the call simply because he extends the call to everyone and not the same number as those who respond to the call by faith. If the called and chosen were equal then Judas would make God a liar. Seeing that the called is more than the called out from the called ones, then the calling must be greater than the called out from the called ones (chosen).

I wonder what some do with those who are predestined to good works?

I wonder what some do with vs. 4 in the prayer of encouragement in Eph 1?

It seems that some do not know the difference between "called" and "chosen".
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Your post and your reasoning makes no sense. This verse is simply saying that God calls many but few answer the call.

It's not as profound as Calvinists try to make it.

John
 
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gb93433

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seekingthetruth said:
Your post and your reasoning makes no sense. This verse is simply saying that God calls many but few answer the call.
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Exactly right according to scripture.

It's not as profound as you Calvinists try to make it.
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Read it again. I am not a calvinist or an arminianist. It is an effort through reasoning to expose their beliefs through reasoning and comparing it to scripture. It is a nice way of saying I disagree with what I have read that a number of calvinists have posted. While they have a theology based on something that may seem reasonable, the problem is that their reasoning is flawed from a basic understanding of the literary and historical context.
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
Skandelon said:
I think you mean "confounded" or "convoluted," for they are indeed profound. :)
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You are right, of course. I was only trying to make the point that the Calvinists here should just take the scripture for what it says, and not try to add to it with human reasoning.

Just read and believe.

John
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
preacher4truth said:
No, that was for gb39433 or whatever it is. We're called out for making Christs Words "profound." I'll call that accusation a badge of honor. :thumbs:
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Preacher, don't you think that sometimes we distort the Word just by over thinking it? Sometimes, don't we just need to "read and believe"?

John
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
seekingthetruth said:
Preacher, don't you think that sometimes we distort the Word just by over thinking it? Sometimes, don't we just need to "read and believe"?

John
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By "we" do you mean arminians and non-Calvinists? If so, my answer is no, yall never over think. :laugh:

Now don't get twisted, "Lighten up Francis!"

:thumbsup:

Now out of all seriousness, there could be that, but I don't think todays church is in much danger of "over thinking."

I know this is painful for some, but bro, the proof-texting that goes on from within those who are LILAC in theology, and they are here, and an arm or two, and many non-cals needs to grow into actual study and getting things in context. Now, that's a comment on their theology and methodology, not them. :tonofbricks:
 
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seekingthetruth

New Member
preacher4truth said:
By "we" do you mean arminians and non-Calvinists? If so, my answer is no, yall never over think. :laugh:

Now don't get twisted, "Lighten up Francis!"

:thumbsup:

Now out of all seriousness, there could be that, but I don't think todays church is in much danger of "over thinking."

I know this is painful for some, but bro, the proof-texting that goes on from within those who are LILAC in theology, and they are here, and an arm or two, and many non-cals needs to grow into actual study and getting things in context. Now, that's a comment on their theology and methodology, not them. :tonofbricks:
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Actually, although I do agree with you on the state of the church today, I am blessed with two pastors that are very expository. Sunday school and worship both are verse by verse Bible study.

An example of what i meant by overthinking took place in the forum a few days ago. Some here took a simple verse referring to angels and expanded it's meaning to the point that they believe it supports the idea of personal gaurdian angels. It never mentions that, so it is a product of overthinking.

John
 
G

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
seekingthetruth said:
Preacher, don't you think that sometimes we distort the Word just by over thinking it? Sometimes, don't we just need to "read and believe"?
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Yes and no. If we read our Greek way of thinking into what we read then we may not have not interpreted correctly simply because the words may have a very different meaning than what we typically understand. Or the phrases may be much different than what we would say. Who would ever say that they have bowels of mercy for their friend?

I always like to have people translate the Spanish questions ¿Cómo estás? and ¿Cómo está? They translate with the same words, but have a very different usage and one usage may be an insult to another.

In Mt. 5:17 Jesus uses rabbi talk. To "abolish" the Law was rabbi talk meaning to misinterpret the Law. Very different than doing away with the Law. The religious leaders had held onto the letter of the Law and completely disregarded the spirit of the law. Jesus taught about the Law which included the spirit and the letter of the Law. It is much like the spirit of a speed limit sign. The letter says do not go over a certain speed. The spirit says do not exceed a certain speed for you safety.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
seekingthetruth said:
Actually, although I do agree with you on the state of the church today, I am blessed with two pastors that are very expository. Sunday school and worship both are verse by verse Bible study.

An example of what i meant by overthinking took place in the forum a few days ago. Some here took a simple verse referring to angels and expanded it's meaning to the point that they believe it supports the idea of personal gaurdian angels. It never mentions that, so it is a product of overthinking.

John
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Maybe they have watched too many episodes of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml0rz9UA_wU
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
gb93433 said:
Are you saying that God is consistent with His nature and that the called are many and the chosen (the called out from the called ones) are few? The idea being that God could not be so stupid to have the same number of called and those who respond to the call simply because he extends the call to everyone and not the same number as those who respond to the call by faith. If the called and chosen were equal then Judas would make God a liar. Seeing that the called is more than the called out from the called ones, then the calling must be greater than the called out from the called ones (chosen).

I wonder what some do with those who are predestined to good works?

I wonder what some do with vs. 4 in the prayer of encouragement in Eph 1?

It seems that some do not know the difference between "called" and "chosen".
Click to expand...
I'll give you my explanation. I believe Calvinism makes a mistake when they apply everything said in scripture to them selves. Election being one of them. I believe there is a difference between "elected" and "chosen" I believe all men are chosen when Christ died on the cross yet not all will respond because of there love of darkness. Scripture just doesn't say Gentiles are elect. If you believe I'm wrong please show me where the Bible is speaking of one gentile that is elect. I believe the Jews are God's elect and Gentiles are chosen. I know the dictionary will tell us they mean the same thing yet election is only said of the Jew. It's because they were elected to be the people with whom Christ would come to us through. All jews are God's elect.
The term "Called" I believe is for God specific purposes to fulfill his plans. Some of them are saved and some aren't. Yet God uses them to bring about certain things that must take place.
MB
 
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