Tancredo: Take out their holy sites

[poncho]

I'm not so sure about it being about big bucks and state power as much as it is about political power. The more Muslims are demonized as evil people who must be crushed at all costs the more it plays into the hands of the right-wingers who will propose dramatically harsh tactics as the necessary response and attempt to alienate those on the left that aren't prepared to make such extreme pronouncements.

Look at the government's links to the military industrial complex, the links to the growing militarized police/security/surviellance state. Somewhere in there the line between government and business has disapeared. Left, right...doesn't matter. They're all hooked into the same game.

 

[KenH]

You are correct, poncho. Left wing, right wing, chicken wing - it's all the same now.

 

[hillclimber1]

The conservatives in the Republican party are all we have for the future. Your grouping of them with these socialists is unconscionable. If the leftists get the white house and retain congress, you will soon lament.

 

[KenH]

If the leftists get the white house and retain congress, you will soon lament.

I lament just about everything about our national government - the presidency since Grover Cleveland left office and the Congress since Senator Robert Taft died.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

I lament just about everything about our national government - the presidency since Grover Cleveland left office and the Congress since Senator Robert Taft died.

I hope you don't mean that you lament the great things accomplished in 1964.

Regards,
BiR

 

[Analgesic]

Oh, please. No where in the Bible does it say Christians are to take over the world by the sword and kill non-believers. No where does Jesus Christ or Christianity say we are to commit atrocities and behead people. This is the same old tired, well-worn, leftist islamic apologist mantra we've seen posted before, especially on islamic web sites.... EXCEPT.....




Please educate yourself about the true cause of the Crusades - it was not Christians or Catholics who launched the Crusades - they were defending their farms and lands from muslim invaders who were trying to take over Europe. I tire of hearing revisionism history, truly.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/11/the_truth_about_islamic_crusad.html

Exactly. So please put the same effort into understanding why radical Muslims hate you.

And Christians are bound to crusades, according to their religion. The fact that most will not commit these atrocities is more an issue of their lack of faith than that they are basically good. Their religion requires crusades. Oh...except for the fact that it actually doesn't. Religious texts can be interpreted in very different ways, and just because you happen to take a fundamentalist view of the Bible in no way means that Muslims cannot interpret the Koran with a more nuanced hermeneutic.

Pure nonsense

Glad to see such a well-developed, logical argument in response.

Prove that Islam is literally "the most evil religion ever" or try and refrain from saying such imprecise nonsense.

You prove anything positive about it. They love their children? Get your head out of the political rhetoric of the day.

I never claimed anything positive. You made an incredibly strong statement. I called you to prove it. The only point at issue is whether your claim is true or not, and you have provided no proof to back up your vehement rhetoric.

I'm not so sure about it being about big bucks and state power as much as it is about political power. The more Muslims are demonized as evil people who must be crushed at all costs the more it plays into the hands of the right-wingers who will propose dramatically harsh tactics as the necessary response and attempt to alienate those on the left that aren't prepared to make such extreme pronouncements.

More pure nonsense. These ARE evil people if ever there was some. Can't help the left being political and military pansys.

Can't help the right thinking they're infallibly superior imperialists either.

 

[poncho]

Exactly. So please put the same effort into understanding why radical Muslims hate you.



Glad to see such a well-developed, logical argument in response.


I never claimed anything positive. You made an incredibly strong statement. I called you to prove it. The only point at issue is whether your claim is true or not, and you have provided no proof to back up your vehement rhetoric.


Can't help the right thinking they're infallibly superior imperialists either.

I doubt very much righties think of themselves as superior imperialists. Bet only one or two in ten can even recognize imperialism for what it is other than being evil.. Same goes for fascism. But they'll readily deny being either till the cows come home. PNAC's "Rebuilding America's defenses" is itself an imperialist manifesto that most righties and self proclaimed conservatives have easily accepted as being America's future.

 

[Analgesic]

I doubt very much righties think of themselves as superior imperialists. Bet only one or two in ten can even recognize imperialism for what it is other than being evil.. Same goes for fascism. But they'll readily deny being either till the cows come home. PNAC's "Rebuilding America's defenses" is itself an imperialist manifesto that most righties and self proclaimed conservatives have easily accepted as being America's future.

Right, my apologies for the poor sentence construction. I meant to state that they think they're "infallibly superior", not that they think that they're imperialists (though some do).

 

[hillclimber1]

I never said that there weren't radical Muslims in America who feel bound by their faith to do terrible acts of violence - I disputed Lady Eagle's absolute and universal language. Further, simply because there are Muslims who want to commit such acts doesn't mean that they want to commit such acts because they're Muslims. Correlation doesn't prove causation.

In this case I believe you are very incorrect. They commit atrocities precisely because of their evil religion.

And Christians are bound to crusades, according to their religion. The fact that most will not commit these atrocities is more an issue of their lack of faith than that they are basically good. Their religion requires crusades.

I don't believe for a second that Christians were wrong in defending themselves against the, now who were they? Oh yeah, Muslims, during the crusades.

Oh...except for the fact that it actually doesn't. Religious texts can be interpreted in very different ways, and just because you happen to take a fundamentalist view of the Bible in no way means that Muslims cannot interpret the Koran with a more nuanced hermeneutic

I don't question their interpretation of the Koran, I believe they for the most part interpret it correctly. Unfortunately, for the world.

Prove that Islam is literally "the most evil religion ever" or try and refrain from saying such imprecise nonsense.

I feel no need whatsoever in providing proof. A most cursory knowledge of the various religions should convince you of that. The atrocities they commit, while smiling toward Mecca, speaks for itself. You must know that. Please name another that compares.

I'm not so sure about it being about big bucks and state power as much as it is about political power. The more Muslims are demonized as evil people who must be crushed at all costs the more it plays into the hands of the right-wingers who will propose dramatically harsh tactics as the necessary response and attempt to alienate those on the left that aren't prepared to make such extreme pronouncements.

The left is the "fold up the card table, take the cards and go home" crowd. They will never again defend this nation from aggression. They will deal with
terrorism and wars by treating them as police actions, while shaking their fingers at the foes.

And further, this evil aggressor is not going to give up until it's dead. The religious fervor they possess makes reason and debate impossible.
hill....bold

Have you not read of the atrocities committed by these radicals? How can you minimize it, taken in whole. You can't logically, but so many do.

 

[hillclimber1]

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
by Robert Spencer:

In here he states and I agree:

Spencer details how the jihad that the non-Muslim world faces today is in direct continuity with the one the Crusaders fought against. It continues today in Europe and even in America while pressure groups intimidate the media into silence about the real nature and goals of Islam. The whitewashed Islam they present, argues Spencer, hinders our ability to defend ourselves against Islamic terror.

Spencer also explains here what we must do to stop the jihad onslaught not only militarily, but culturally. He maintains that we will not be able to defeat today's Islamic jihad without recovering pride in the superiority -- yes, superiority -- of Western, Christian civilization. If we surrender our culture, he warns, soon we will be surrendering our homes. Superiority, in Christ, now I'll bet that ticks off a lot of folks, but it rings true.
hill in bold

 

[Ps104_33]

We've been fighting this war with one hand tied behind our back because politicians are afraid of the negative press that would come with fighting this war like we really want to win.

 

[Analgesic]

In this case I believe you are very incorrect. They commit atrocities precisely because of their evil religion.

Believe it all you want, but you can believe in Santa's favorite Tooth Fairy as well. PROVE that the atrocities are committed "precisely because of their evil religion".

I don't believe for a second that Christians were wrong in defending themselves against the, now who were they? Oh yeah, Muslims, during the crusades.

Go back and re-read that post, because you missed the fact that I was giving a witty parody of what I quoted.

I don't question their interpretation of the Koran, I believe they for the most part interpret it correctly. Unfortunately, for the world.

I was speaking of the moderate Muslims in this case. I'm so glad you think they interpret the Koran correctly.

I feel no need whatsoever in providing proof. A most cursory knowledge of the various religions should convince you of that. The atrocities they commit, while smiling toward Mecca, speaks for itself. You must know that. Please name another that compares.

You assert something with overwhelming audacity, refuse to prove your claim, and then challenge me to disprove your position? Until you prove something, whether you feel the need to do so or not, there's absolutely no need to disprove it since there's nothing proven to disprove. The fact that you assert something does not place a burden of disproof upon people who disagree.

The left is the "fold up the card table, take the cards and go home" crowd. They will never again defend this nation from aggression. They will deal with
terrorism and wars by treating them as police actions, while shaking their fingers at the foes.

Or perhaps they will search the national soul to see why exactly they're the target of such hatred. Oh wait, it's obviously because of the Koran which clearly states that the United States must be destroyed. Right.

 

[Petra-O IX]

We've been fighting this war with one hand tied behind our back because politicians are afraid of the negative press that would come with fighting this war like we really want to win.

There is more to it than that. Because the war was declared against terror and not a country it sort of complicated our abilities to fight a war that could have been negotiated in a proper manner. But because we are at war against the terrorist we of course can not negotiate. The process would have been a lot simplier if we had declared war against Iraq and then defined terms for peace.

 

[poncho]

There is more to it than that. Because the war was declared against terror and not a country it sort of complicated our abilities to fight a war that could have been negotiated in a proper manner. But because we are at war against the terrorist we of course can not negotiate. The process would have been a lot simplier if we had declared war against Iraq and then defined terms for peace.

It doesn't help that we're using the wrong tool for job. Terrorism is a criminal, police matter not military. But how were the neocons suppose to increase military spending like they wanted without declaring "war" on something? Or without 9/11 for that matter. Then again if we're concerned about fighting terrorism how come we're funding terrorists to initiate "regime change" in Iran?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

It doesn't help that we're using the wrong tool for job. Terrorism is a criminal, police matter not military. But how were the neocons suppose to increase military spending like they wanted without declaring "war" on something? Or without 9/11 for that matter. Then again if we're concerned about fighting terrorism how come we're funding terrorists to initiate "regime change" in Iran?

This ideology which has no foundation is what is killing the war on terror. Police are not equpipped to hadle these types of attacks. It is way over their head. Police are not equppped to maintain constant large gun fights that terrorists engage in. Absurd it is.

 

[LadyEagle]

Have you not read of the atrocities committed by these radicals? How can you minimize it, taken in whole. You can't logically, but so many do.

Islamic apologists always minimize it, doncha know.

 

[poncho]

This ideology which has no foundation is what is killing the war on terror. Police are not equpipped to hadle these types of attacks. It is way over their head. Police are not equppped to maintain constant large gun fights that terrorists engage in. Absurd it is.

Really! That should be an outrage to you then shouldn't it? It is to me now that you put it that way. How many thousands of billions do you figure we've handed over to public servants that have been promising that if we just give them a little more power more money and more control each time something comes up to 'justify' the increase in power and funding that they'll keep us safe from all these dire threats that's popped over the past 5 or 6 decades?

You'd think being the good stewards they are they'd have built a right fine high tech militarized police state who's only soul purpose it to protect citizens, wouldn't ya? Where is it? Show it to me now or give me back my money!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

er, um, should that be sole purpose ?

Sorry to be so nit-picky.

 

[poncho]

er, um, should that be sole purpose ?

Sorry to be so nit-picky.

Have it your way then, it's sole. Hey at least we're talking again now, aren't we?:laugh: :type:

All I know is they promised to keep us safe from all this and we paid em good money and lots of power and control for it. It's time they
come across with the product they've been promising us. Where was it? Where is it? What are we paying them for if they're never gonna give us what we already paid for?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

My tax revolt thread had about 4 responses, and two of them were warning me to stop.