Ted Haggard - should he ever be allowed to pastor again?

[Jim1999]

I don't know this man from Adam. I do know that Christ forgave me when I was in sin and trespasses, and I could do no less for him.

I long remember one of our pastors who fell whilst serving his church. He was not found out, but he voluntarily resigned his pastorate and asked for help from our association and his church. Long story short, we asked him to sit our for a year or two, prove his worth before God and the congregation. After two years, without huge fanfare, he was restored and he served the church he founded the rest of his life. Did we make the right decision? I have no doubt, and God was blessed as was his church who was very gracious and proved their love for CHrist in their actions.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[npetreley]

It's way too early to ask, I think.

Check this out. http://www.challies.com/archives/002181.php

From the story...

Like many of you, when I first heard the news of this scandal I wanted to know more. I wanted to know details and to have the whole story of his immorality printed before me.

I can't say my motives are the same as his. I just want to know what the fuss is all about. I have no idea what the scandal is. I guess I'm just out of touch.

 

[LeBuick]

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, we don't put a drunk man in the water. Our Church requires 6 weeks of new members class before you get in the water. This was a change I made years ago. My logic was I wanted them to have a foundation and commitment to what it all meant. I don't just want the outward appearance of obedience, I want you to know on the inside what you are being obedient to. It also gives the Church 6 weeks to know the person and see their commitment and desire for change. I've never had one show up for class drunk much like their baptism. Dirty and smelly is another thing all together. You'd be surprised how much those guys respect the Church.

My Brothers Church is next to a licquor store which are closed on Sunday here. I preached a revival at his Church which is arranged so that you can sit in the pulpit and see out the front doors when they are left open. He always leaves them open during good weather. You can see the guys leaving the licquor store, they will hide their bottle in their coat, pocket or shirt, take off their hat and walk respectfull when they pass the Church. Some even stop, face into the Church and do that catholic make the cross thing they do with their hand. That stands out to me as very interesting.

 

[Brother Bob]

My logic was I wanted them to have a foundation and commitment to what it all meant. I don't just want the outward appearance of obedience, I want you to know on the inside what you are being obedient to. It also gives the Church 6 weeks to know the person and see their commitment and desire for change. I've never had one show up for class drunk much like their baptism. Dirty and smelly is another thing all together. You'd be surprised how much those guys respect the Church.

No, I would not be surprised either. Unfortunately we do have drunks also.

Can't you see your 6 weeks is close to what I say when I talk about the fruits. After 6 weeks if that person is still smelling of acohol do you baptize them or not?

I can't say my motives are the same as his. I just want to know what the fuss is all about. I have no idea what the scandal is. I guess I'm just out of touch.

So, now its not even a scandal. A leader of 30 million Christians committing sodomy and its not a scandal. God help us!

I don't know this man from Adam. I do know that Christ forgave me when I was in sin and trespasses, and I could do no less for him.

I long remember one of our pastors who fell whilst serving his church. He was not found out, but he voluntarily resigned his pastorate and asked for help from our association and his church. Long story short, we asked him to sit our for a year or two, prove his worth before God and the congregation. After two years, without huge fanfare,

So, you did put him out anyway. (Must of been a reason for making him wait 2 years though.)


I ask you Jim but you probably won't answer, were you practicing adultery, sodomy, killing, worshiping a golden calf when you gave your hand to the church or had you went through a stage of sorrowfulness for the sins you had committed when you came and give your hand? Also, were you in a stage of trying to live a better life when you give your hand to accept Christ?

 

[LeBuick]

Can't you see your 6 weeks is close to what I say when I talk about the fruits. After 6 weeks if that person is still smelling of acohol do you baptize them or not?

Point understood, no, I would not bptize him if he was not showing progress or still reaking of acohol. I guess I just never took that to mean he no longer drank, it just meant he didn't drink before he came to Church. I still believe and know many in the body have secret sins just as this fella did. Just as his came to the light and so will the others (per the word). I believe God bringing your sin to the light is one of his ways of saying enough is enough. I know God has convited him, tourmented and gave him every opportunity to come clean before he brought this to the light.

Sometimes this necessary bruise to the body will make it a better and more righteous body in the end.

 

[LeBuick]

worshiping a golden calf when you gave your hand to the church

Bro Bob, sorry if I'm not Jim but do all your members tithe from the start? Or do they grow into stewardship? What is the chief reason for not tithing? Would it not be their trust and love of money is greater than their trust in God's ability to provide and sustain? It takes time to understand what God will provide means.

 

[Brother Bob]

We receive our money from "love offerings".
LeBuick, I guess I have said enough on this subject. I am not going to change anyone and they certainly are not going to change me but we believe a person has to show that they have quit following Satan and want to follow Jesus Christ before we receive them into our fellowship. We too have some who turn out they were not what they professed to be and have dealt with them. There is such a thing as a hypocrit and it kept me out of the church for a long time for I did not want to be one. I am sorry we are so far apart on this for you are one that I grew very fond of on here.
We are a strict sect of people and we intend to remain as such. Some say I am talking about a works Salvation when I say you must repent. Well, that is what Jesus said and if that is works, so be it. I believe you must repent. If a man don't ever become sorry about the condition he is in, he will never do anything about his soul because they love the world too much. May God Bless and keep you.

Bob

 

[LeBuick]

I am sorry we are so far apart on this for you are one that I grew very fond of on here. Bob

Well, my feelings for you haven't changed. I still respect your biblical knowledge and will always study your post with eagerness and awe. Yes, we disgree on this one but I fully understand and respect your view.

I just believe you come to Christ as you are and let him make the changes that need to be made. Otherwise, we may try and take the credit for the changes....


We'll see on the other side!

Peace

 

[Jim1999]

Quote:
I ask you Jim but you probably won't answer, were you practicing adultery, sodomy, killing, worshiping a golden calf when you gave your hand to the church or had you went through a stage of sorrowfulness for the sins you had committed when you came and give your hand? Also, were you in a stage of trying to live a better life when you give your hand to accept Christ?
-------------------------------------------

I grew up in the church, never drank alcohol and still don't, and I certainly didn't do anything to make me ashamed. I came to a realization of Jesus as my Saviour during my confirmation in the Church of England. There were no drums or fanfare, no deep show, but just a quiet acquiessence to the truth of God's word.

I was none the less a great sinner in God's eye before He called me to grace in Christ the Lord.

Who am I to refuse another?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Brother Bob]

I grew up in the church, never drank alcohol and still don't, and I certainly didn't do anything to make me ashamed. I came to a realization of Jesus as my Saviour during my confirmation in the Church of England. There were no drums or fanfare, no deep show, but just a quiet acquiessence to the truth of God's word.

I was none the less a great sinner in God's eye before He called me to grace in Christ the Lord.

Who am I to refuse another?

Cheers,

Jim

First of all did not answer my question and second it sounds "Catholic". Confirmation of what? Seems to me if you were going to confirm something it would of already had to happen.

 

[Jim1999]

Try, just try, learning something about the different churches......It was Church of England. Do you know anything about the the Church of England? It gave us many of those brilliant scholars of the church. Men who valiantly defended the faith once delivered to the saints. It was evangelical and fundamental before those terms were even popular.

Good grief! How can people,,,,well, never mind..........

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Brother Bob]

Try, just try, learning something about the different churches......It was Church of England. Do you know anything about the the Church of England? It gave us many of those brilliant scholars of the church. Men who valiantly defended the faith once delivered to the saints. It was evangelical and fundamental before those terms were even popular.

Yes, I have heard that the King is the head of the church, don't know if its true or not. I think it is because of the Church of England that most fled and came to this country. Is that the one you are talking about. I know you have to look down pretty far to see me but try anyway. Guess it is the Queen now though.

The Church of England suffered its largest annual decline in Sunday service attendance for 20 years in 1995, according to the annual Church Statistics report. The average attendance was 1,045,000 – a drop of 36,000 from 1994. In November 1992, the General Synod of the Church of England and the Anglican Church in Australia voted in favour of the ordination of women, and the first women priests were ordained in England in 1994. By 1998 there were some 860 stipendiary women clergy.

Is that what I should learn about the Church of England or is it something else?

 

[Brother Bob]

jeepers, some people think........forget it...........