Temporary Salvationist 1-8

We shall await with bated breath. One thing that you are correct about is that Lordship salvationists, a notch above you, allow all saved people in the kingdom.--Herb Evans

 

JUMP, Yeah, some would have you "JUMP" into the lake of fire that is in heaven to get killed at the JSOC. HA HA HA! HO HO HO! HAR HAR HAR! :tongue3: -- Herb Evans

 

How do you misrepresent someone's attitude with posted words? Are you a mind reader. Sonny, don't try to tell me what I believe.

The consequences of not living right is chastisement, everthing from sickness to death. It is not my opinion. It is in Hebrews. if a professing child of God does not receive chastisement he is a bastard and not a son, namely, lost! -- Hreb Evans

 

yes, you can live like you want for eternal salvation for eternity, but if you live like you want, you will miss a thousand years of it. -- Herb Evans

 

Jumpy, the truth is that you can't deal with me, because you and Jimmy Newman, as a good little parrot, must run back to Heretic Faust's writings for your answers. I am in a position to know that, because I have debated Heretic Joey by E-mail directly and recognize it when you fellows parrot him. I have a CD on that debate for $ 5.00 if you need to brush up on your pat answers. Time is not your problem, the scriptures arre your problem. So, go ahead and sit on the sidelines with one liner quips.

 

Amen! What ever happened to Jumpy's champion, Jimmy Newman? I guess they have to go back and study Heretic Joey Faust's "ROD." -- Herb Evans

 

Well, we wait with bated breath! -- herb Evans

 

James_Newman]Now you are just confusing the imputed righteousness of Christ, which will justify you on the last day, for practical righteousness, without which no man will see the Lord.

No! It is you that confuse the Lord's imputed righteousness by limiting it. You can live like the devil and still ultimately be saved by your Gospel, but you can't live like the devil and enter the Kingdom. What a crock! -- Herb Evans

1Jo 3:7-8
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

A believer doing the works of the devil is not righteous. Can I get a witness?

Absolutely not! Even Lot was righteous positionally. But again you leave off two verses.

Lot was a righteous man living among sodomites. What are you saying, that he was partaking of their sins? God would have left him there. But he did pay a high price for not separating from their wickedness. -- Jim


Yeah, he offered his daughters to the queers and later committed incest with them. The fact remains he was righteous, i.e. just Lot, like righteous Herb Evans or Just Herb Evans (positionally in Christ and never out of Christ) -- Herb Evans

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Are you a child of God or a child of the devil. If you are a born again child of God, YOU CANNOT SIN, AND YOU DON'T SIN, Go ye and learn what that meaneth. -Man, you really bombed out on that one. READ THE CONTEXT and renounce your heresy! - Herb Evans

It means if you're sinning you're a child of the devil. Read the English. -- Jim


Oh it means! It means! that is what the 7 Day Adventists do. It means what it says! That is amazing! A born again Christian is a child of God and no longer a child of the devil or a child of wrath. The Bible tells that we are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus and sin has nothing to do with it.

Do you have a text to prove that? Man, you Faustites will stoop at anything. What a wresting of scripture! Tell me, can it be said of only a non-sinning child of God that he doth not sin and CANNOT sin? But then, if he sins to become a child of the devil, how did he do that, if initially he could not sin? -- Herb Evans



Unless you are walking in the spirit in this life, your new sinless body will have to wait until the great white throne. You're starting to sound like a gnostic. -- Jim

Another pontifcation. That is Faust talk, for he likes to compare folks with Gnostics. You are sounding more and more like a lost man. You do not have a shred of scripture for this heretical statement. -- Herb Evans

I never planned on my flesh inheriting the millennial kingdom. My soul, spirit, and NEW SINLESS BODY will inherit the millennial kingdom. The born again Christian does not sin and cannot sin. His flesh can and does, but flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. -- Herb Evans

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

You cannot say 'only my body sins'. -- Jim

Ah, Mr. Slight of hand changes my word "flesh" to "body." The flesh is the problem not the body. A dead body does not sin! The flesh goes beyond the body. The Flesh is used in a couple ways in scripture, i.e., the old nature that each of us has and the meaty part of your body, which is both flesh and blood.--Herb Evans

If you hate your brother, did you murder him with your body? If you look upon a woman to lust, did you commit adultery in your body?

Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Yes, they are the lusts of the flesh, according to my Bible. That is the old nature that you and I have even after salvation. The old man does not go with us to heaven (excuse me, since you might not go there). it is not the physical body that is satisfied with neglect of the body. It is the old man, the old nature, the flesh that is religiously satisfied. -- Herb Evans

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If your spirit allows your flesh to lead you into sin, your spirit is guilty, just as Adam was guilty for allowing Eve to lead him into sin

But you see, my old spirit, the inner man, the old nature is not going either. Only the regenerated soul and spirit, the new nature, are going to heaven and going to be resurrected and get a new sinless body. --Herb Evans

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Evans
James_Newman]Now you are just confusing the imputed righteousness of Christ, which will justify you on the last day, for practical righteousness, without which no man will see the Lord.

No! It is you that confuse the Lord's imputed righteousness by limiting it. You can live like the devil and still ultimately be saved by your Gospel, but you can't live like the devil and enter the Kingdom. What a crock! -- Herb Evans

1Jo 3:7-8
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

A believer doing the works of the devil is not righteous. Can I get a witness?

Absolutely not! Even Lot was righteous positionally. But again you leave off two verses.

Lot was a righteous man living among sodomites. What are you saying, that he was partaking of their sins? God would have left him there. But he did pay a high price for not separating from their wickedness. -- Jim


Yeah, he offered his daughters to the queers and later committed incest with them. The fact remains he was righteous, i.e. just Lot, like righteous Herb Evans or Just Herb Evans (positionally in Christ and never out of Christ) -- Herb Evans

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Are you a child of God or a child of the devil. If you are a born again child of God, YOU CANNOT SIN, AND YOU DON'T SIN, Go ye and learn what that meaneth. -Man, you really bombed out on that one. READ THE CONTEXT and renounce your heresy! - Herb Evans

It means if you're sinning you're a child of the devil. Read the English. -- Jim


Oh it means! It means! that is what the 7 Day Adventists do. It means what it says! That is amazing! A born again Christian is a child of God and no longer a child of the devil or a child of wrath. The Bible tells that we are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus and sin has nothing to do with it.


And it says exactly what I said. He that comitteth sin is of the devil. You haven't figured out that a man can positionally be a child of God and still be practically a child of the devil. All you are doing is saying 'I'm a child of God, that means my sin isn't really sin.' That is the type of reasoning that is warned against when we are told to let no man deceive us. Just like Galatians 6, where we are told that whosoever sows to the flesh will reap corruption, and be not deceived. You cannot sow to the flesh, saved or unsaved, and not read corruption. 1Corinthians 6, be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom. And unbeliever isn't anywhere in that list of things God considers unrighteous. Practical righteousness is a requirement for a child of God to inherit the kingdom of God, be not deceived.

Not much to say this time, eh? All you have for me here is your say so, which means nothing in light of the context. No where in God's word is a child of God called a child of the devil, and no where is there anyscripture that supports the error that a child of God can be changed into a child of the devil. Yes, it says exactly that, he that committeth sin is of the devil, but that is not the new man or the new nature; it is the old man and the old nature. We both will certainly reap corruption. And, yes, the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom. but saved people are no longer unrighteous, despite any unrighteous deeds their old nature might do. You fellows are warped to the core. -- Herb Evans

2 Timothy 3:13
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

You are deceived, Herb. -- Jim

Dittos to you. Now, we are tied. You kill my dog, and i'll kill your cat. -- Hreb Evans

Quote:
Do you have a text to prove that? Man, you Faustites will stoop at anything. What a wresting of scripture! Tell me, can it be said of only a non-sinning child of God that he doth not sin and CANNOT sin? But then, if he sins to become a child of the devil, how did he do that, if initially he could not sin? -- Herb Evans



Unless you are walking in the spirit in this life, your new sinless body will have to wait until the great white throne. You're starting to sound like a gnostic. -- Jim

Another pontifcation. That is Faust talk, for he likes to compare folks with Gnostics. You are sounding more and more like a lost man. You do not have a shred of scripture for this heretical statement. -- Herb Evans

I never planned on my flesh inheriting the millennial kingdom. My soul, spirit, and NEW SINLESS BODY will inherit the millennial kingdom. The born again Christian does not sin and cannot sin. His flesh can and does, but flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. -- Herb Evans

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

You cannot say 'only my body sins'. -- Jim

Ah, Mr. Slight of hand changes my word "flesh" to "body." The flesh is the problem not the body. A dead body does not sin! The flesh goes beyond the body. The Flesh is used in a couple ways in scripture, i.e., the old nature that each of us has and the meaty part of your body, which is both flesh and blood.--Herb Evans

If you hate your brother, did you murder him with your body? If you look upon a woman to lust, did you commit adultery in your body?

Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Yes, they are the lusts of the flesh, according to my Bible. That is the old nature that you and I have even after salvation. The old man does not go with us to heaven (excuse me, since you might not go there). it is not the physical body that is satisfied with neglect of the body. It is the old man, the old nature, the flesh that is religiously satisfied. -- Herb Evans

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If your spirit allows your flesh to lead you into sin, your spirit is guilty, just as Adam was guilty for allowing Eve to lead him into sin

But you see, my old spirit, the inner man, the old nature is not going either. Only the regenerated soul and spirit, the new nature, are going to heaven and going to be resurrected and get a new sinless body. --Herb Evans
Sure, at the great white throne, but unless you put on that new man now in this life, you will not inherit the kingdom.

Ephesians 4:22-24
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Sorry but no white throne judgment for me. I will be there, however, watching some Faustites get judged. The new man is within me right along side the old man. You are reading a command not a condition for the kingdom. The old man may be put off but never leaves until death. The new man must be put on over and over, but he is still there in the believer. -- Herb Evans

A man who has put off the old man and put on the new man will not be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

That is true, if you understood it properly. How long does the new man last? Can the old man come back (I believe he never leaves until death.)? Is it like alternating current, Old man, new man, old man, and etc. ad nauseam? -- Herb Evans

The man that fulfills the lust of the flesh will reap what he sows at the judgment seat of Christ.

No, at the JSOC, the old man will not be there. And the new man will not get any stripes or be killed or be thrown into hell fire or the lake of fire. That is all a figment of your imagination. and false doctrine. -- Herb Evans

 

And it says exactly what I said. He that comitteth sin is of the devil. You haven't figured out that a man can positionally be a child of God and still be practically a child of the devil. All you are doing is saying 'I'm a child of God, that means my sin isn't really sin.' That is the type of reasoning that is warned against when we are told to let no man deceive us. Just like Galatians 6, where we are told that whosoever sows to the flesh will reap corruption, and be not deceived. You cannot sow to the flesh, saved or unsaved, and not read corruption. 1Corinthians 6, be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom. And unbeliever isn't anywhere in that list of things God considers unrighteous. Practical righteousness is a requirement for a child of God to inherit the kingdom of God, be not deceived. -- Jim

All you have for me here is your say so, which means nothing in light of the context. No where in God's word is a child of God called a child of the devil, and no where is there any scripture that supports the error that a child of God can be changed into a child of the devil. Yes, it says exactly that, he that committeth sin is of the devil, but that is not the new man or the new nature; it is the old man and the old nature. We both will certainly reap corruption. And, yes, the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom. but saved people are no longer unrighteous, despite any unrighteous deeds their old nature might do. You fellows are warped to the core. -- Herb Evans

Where did I say anything about being changed into a child of the devil? I said if you sin, you are a child of the devil. Thats the bible you are arguing with, not me. If the bible says you are a child of God and a child of the devil, then the bible is right. If you wan't to play the old man/new man game, that is fine, but whatever you do in the body, you are going to receive for at the judgment seat. Of course you evade the part about a child of God being called a child of the devil any where in the scriptures.


Well, child of the devil, you have already admitted that you sinned wilfully, so we know what you are. So, you believe that you are both. More amazing than what I thought you meant. be patient with me, and i will get your heresy down pat. Still, the Bible does not say that you are both a child of God and a child of the devil. Whatever I do in the body I will receive for -- rewards or lack of them. No stripes for me. No being killed there for me. No being put in hell fire there for me. That is Faustology not Bible. My sin debt is paid! The old man/new man is not a game; it is the scripture. -- Herb Evans

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If your spirit allows your flesh to lead you into sin, your spirit is guilty, just as Adam was guilty for allowing Eve to lead him into sin

But you see, my old spirit, the inner man, the old nature is not going either. Only the regenerated soul and spirit, the new nature, are going to heaven and going to be resurrected and get a new sinless body. --Herb Evans

Sure, at the great white throne, but unless you put on that new man now in this life, you will not inherit the kingdom.

Ephesians 4:22-24
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Sorry but no white throne judgment for me. I will be there, however, watching some Faustites get judged. The new man is within me right along side the old man. You are reading a command not a condition for the kingdom. The old man may be put off but never leaves until death. The new man must be put on over and over, but he is still there in the believer. -- Herb Evans

Thats right, Herb, it is a command. And you think that we can ignore these commands and yet Jesus is going to tell us 'well done, good and faithful servant.' But in reality, if we do not keep his commandments, He is going to say 'I never knew you.'

1 John 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Well, then, you are a liar, for you admitted sin and do not keep His commandments. Still, my point was that commands are not conditions for keeping saved nor for excluding Christians from the kingdom and putting them in hell fire. You are warped to think that they are conditions for such. -- Herb Evans

Luke 6
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built a house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Good question, good scripture, but no kingdom cigar here. The foundation is Jesus Christ not works. Manipulating salvation passages into kingdom passages does not become you. -- Herb Evans

1 Timothy 6:11-19
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded; nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

You Faustites claim that you have eternal life and cannot lose it, so why try to use it for the kingdom. There is no kingdom here in this passage. You faustites are like campbellites when they see water in the Bible. You see godly instructions and admonitions and immediately you try to use them for conditions for kingdom entrance. Herb Evans believes in these scriptures and would never tell anyone to disobey them. --Herb Evans

Herb says he doesn't need to keep these commandments, because he already has eternal life. But Herb can't tell the difference between eternal life during the millennium, which is certainly by works added to faith, and eternal life afterwards which is freely given. Fine Herb, don't do good, don't lay up in store a good foundation. Just build that house on the sand and hope it will stand. But that isn't faith, thats presumption. -- Jim

Herb Evans never said that. Herb Evans does not believe that you need to keep these commandments for eternal life, and I thought you Faustites were saved by grace and not works, but that is obviously not what you are saying. Now the kingdom is no different than salvation, and there is nothing here about the kingdom. If you are going to sift through the bible for all the commands and try to prove that they are conditions for the kingdom, don't waste your time. Christ is my foundation for both salvation and the kingdom. Your foundation is works and self righteousness. Too believe you do not need works for eternity and need works for a thousand years is ridiculous, if that is what you believe -- Herb Evans