Temporary Salvationist 1-8

[James_Newman]

Jim Newman, Let's cut to the chase.

1. Do you believe that some born again Christians will spend 1000 years in hell fire?

Absolutely

2. If so, will they know they are going to hell fire in this life before it happens?

Some will.
Heb 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

3. What does a Christian have to do to go to hell fire?

See question 2.

4. Do you know whether or not you are going to escape hell fire and go into the kingdom?

-- Herb Evans

Phi 3:13-14
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Herb Evans]

Originally Posted by Herb Evans
Jim Newman, Let's cut to the chase.

1. Do you believe that some born again Christians will spend 1000 years in hell fire?

Absolutely -- Jim

We have now established that you are a heretic -- Herb Evans

Quote:
2. If so, will they know they are going to hell fire in this life before it happens?

Some will. -- Jim Heb 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

How will some know and others not know? What is the willfull sin? -- Herb Evans

Quote:
3. What does a Christian have to do to go to hell fire?

See question 2. -- Jim

Again, what is the willful sin? -- Herb Evans

Quote:
4. Do you know whether or not you are going to escape hell fire and go into the kingdom? - Herb Evans

Phi 3:13-14 -- Jim
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

You did not answer the question but rather flung a scripture. Does this mean that you do not know whether you will make it or not? -- Herb Evans

 

[James_Newman]

Herb, for as much railing as you do on heretics like myself and my pastor, I would have thought you knew what it is that we taught. Of course I don't know if I am going to be in the kingdom. I haven't finished running this race. But I know that if I quit running I won't be there.

1Co 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keepunder my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

The willful sin is whatever sin you do willfully. You might be able to get away with some sins, albeit with a lower place in the kingdom. But I wouldn't advise trying it.

 

[Herb Evans]

Herb, for as much railing as you do on heretics like myself and my pastor, I would have thought you knew what it is that we taught.

Well, I do, but I wanted others to see what you teach. Now, they know the hard core stuff that does not usually come out in your posts. -- Herb Evans

Of course I don't know if I am going to be in the kingdom. I haven't finished running this race. But I know that if I quit running I won't be there.

Well, if you do miss the kingdom, will you go to heaven? Or will you go straight to hell when you die? -- Herb Evans

1Co 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Odd that this verse says nothing about hell fire or the kindgdom. Evidently you must interpolate and pontificate to us what the prize is, what the crown is, and what the race is for. I guess you could manage some good old 7 Day Adventist interpretation. Please do it for us. -- Herb Evans

The willful sin is whatever sin you do willfully. You might be able to get away with some sins, albeit with a lower place in the kingdom. But I wouldn't advise trying it.

Oh? You mean you never willfully sin? Is a willfull sin any sin? What are the sins that you can get away with? -- Herb Evans

 

[James_Newman]

Herb, for as much railing as you do on heretics like myself and my pastor, I would have thought you knew what it is that we taught.

Well, I do, but I wanted others to see what you teach. Now, they know the hard core stuff that does not usually come out in your posts. -- Herb Evans

Oh, I don't hide what I believe, brother. I may not come on so strong all the time, seeing as many folks have been inoculated from the truth by smooth talking preachers for so long.

Of course I don't know if I am going to be in the kingdom. I haven't finished running this race. But I know that if I quit running I won't be there.

Well, if you do miss the kingdom, will you go to heaven? Or will you go straight to hell when you die? -- Herb Evans

I don't know, would you like me to make something up?

1Co 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Odd that this verse says nothing about hell fire or the kindgdom. Evidently you must interpolate and pontificate to us what the prize is, what the crown is, and what the race is for. I guess you could manage some good old 7 Day Adventist interpretation. Please do it for us. -- Herb Evans

Oh, you think Paul was competing in the olympics?

The willful sin is whatever sin you do willfully. You might be able to get away with some sins, albeit with a lower place in the kingdom. But I wouldn't advise trying it.

Oh? You mean you never willfully sin? Is a willfull sin any sin? What are the sins that you can get away with? -- Herb Evans

Why, are you planning on taking up a new hobby?

 

[av1611jim]

Very good post. The issue of etrnal salvation here is much broader in that what you are seeing is folks trying to incorporate the Faust heresy into the mix. They start out slowly and then slip in the part about some born again Christians being excluded from the kingdom and spending a thousand years in hell fire until they get out. Faustites will eventually tell you that they believe in eternal salvation but just get set it aside until after the 1000 years of hell fire, if they have to go there. The carnal Christians get killed at the judgment seat and are thrown into hell fire. Still, much like Catholics, you never know what gets you in or what keeps you out. I, too, doubt whether the Faustites ever were saved. -- Herb Evans

Hey! Let's all do that!
First you doubt my relationship to my Master, then I will doubt your relationship to yours!!! Ain't this fun?

Here ya go Herb, let me put it right across the plate for you. You ain't the ONLY person who has flung this baloney at us. And you ain't even the most skillful at it.

Why don't you come out and tell us all who you really are? Landmarkist? Darbyist? Scofieldite? How's about Ruckmanite? Cloudite? Larkinist?

The truth is Herb, is that you would have all folks believe that ONLY Paul has anything DOCTRINALLY to say to the church. That's right isn't it? Not only that buy YOU are the only one who knows what Paul taught since you were there, huh?

Since most discerning reader will have figured that much out by now if they have read your lengthy a boring posts: I offer this for you.

1Ti 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Since you dispensational filter prevents you from taking your doctrine from Jesusand forces you to take it from Paul; I submit to you and all who read this that your system is a forked tongued system. For, we have Paul teaching Timothy to look to the WORDS OF JESUS!!!

ME precisely looks to Jesus for instruction concerning the after life and things to come.
Re 1:1
¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

But your system denys the very words of He who bought you.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Av1611jim: //Why don't you come out and tell us all
who you really are? Landmarkist? Darbyist?
Scofieldite? How's about Ruckmanite? Cloudite? Larkinist?//

Uh, he could be a Priest of God, as should be all Baptists
BY DOCTRINE. Maybe he read the Bible himself and
let the Holy Spirit guide him into all good Doctrine?
Of course, I project myself on Bro Herb Evans.

 

[webdog]

Oh? You mean you never willfully sin? Is a willfull sin any sin? What are the sins that you can get away with? -- Herb Evans

Why, are you planning on taking up a new hobby?

Why can you never answer this truthfully? Surely, you should know!

 

[Herb Evans]

My Answers to the Apostle of Uncertainty

Quote:
Originally Posted by James_Newman
Herb, for as much railing as you do on heretics like myself and my pastor, I would have thought you knew what it is that we taught.

Well, I do, but I wanted others to see what you teach. Now, they know the hard core stuff that does not usually come out in your posts. -- Herb Evans


Oh, I don't hide what I believe, brother. I may not come on so strong all the time, seeing as many folks have been inoculated from the truth by smooth talking preachers for so long.

Good, You are out in the open with your heretical Faustolgy. -- Herb Evans

Quote:
Of course I don't know if I am going to be in the kingdom. I haven't finished running this race. But I know that if I quit running I won't be there.

Well, if you do miss the kingdom, will you go to heaven? Or will you go straight to hell when you die? -- Herb Evans

I don't know, would you like me to make something up?

No, but it is good to know that you don't know something as the second apostle of uncertainty. -- Hreb Evans

Quote:
1Co 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Odd that this verse says nothing about hell fire or the kindgdom. Evidently you must interpolate and pontificate to us what the prize is, what the crown is, and what the race is for. I guess you could manage some good old 7 Day Adventist interpretation. Please do it for us. -- Herb Evans

Oh, you think Paul was competing in the olympics?

Aside form your quips instead of exegesis, it is a big stretch from this passage to hell fire, and you know it. -- Herb Evans
Quote:

The willful sin is whatever sin you do willfully. You might be able to get away with some sins, albeit with a lower place in the kingdom. But I wouldn't advise trying it.

Oh? You mean you never willfully sin? Is a willfull sin any sin? What are the sins that you can get away with? -- Herb Evans

Why, are you planning on taking up a new hobby?

Another quip to avoid the question. Well you have demonstrated the end of your doctrine. Thank you. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

Hey! Let's all do that!
First you doubt my relationship to my Master, then I will doubt your relationship to yours!!! Ain't this fun?

Here ya go Herb, let me put it right across the plate for you. You ain't the ONLY person who has flung this baloney at us. And you ain't even the most skillful at it.

Why don't you come out and tell us all who you really are? Landmarkist? Darbyist? Scofieldite? How's about Ruckmanite? Cloudite? Larkinist?

The truth is Herb, is that you would have all folks believe that ONLY Paul has anything DOCTRINALLY to say to the church. That's right isn't it? Not only that buy YOU are the only one who knows what Paul taught since you were there, huh?

Since most discerning reader will have figured that much out by now if they have read your lengthy a boring posts: I offer this for you.

1Ti 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Since you dispensational filter prevents you from taking your doctrine from Jesusand forces you to take it from Paul; I submit to you and all who read this that your system is a forked tongued system. For, we have Paul teaching Timothy to look to the WORDS OF JESUS!!!

ME precisely looks to Jesus for instruction concerning the after life and things to come.
Re 1:1
¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

But your system denys the very words of He who bought you.

I did not realize that there was a nest of Faustites out there. I am none of the above ITES. I am an Independent, Fundamental, Bible Believing (KJB), Separated Baptist that does not have to run to "THE ROD" to get my arguments. You are not only charging my system but the system that has been around long before your new light from Joey Faust the heretic. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

erased duplicate

 

[James_Newman]

Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You tell me, Herb. Which commandments are the least of the commandments? Is it whatever little thing I don't think is important?

Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The fact that the bible doesn't give you an absolute line is hardly an argument against the doctrine. I find it strange that you worry so much where the line is. If you think you may be too close, get closer to Jesus.

 

[Herb Evans]

Oh? You mean you never willfully sin? Is a willfull sin any sin? What are the sins that you can get away with? -- Herb Evans
Why can you never answer this truthfully? Surely, you should know!

Well, you have to realize that these apostles of uncertainty are as slippery as a greased pig. Masters of evasion. They could well end up in hell fire; they just do not know it. I will just presume that they will go there. But I will not be there, for I have inhereited salvation and the kingdom by virtue of the blood of Christ. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

Av1611jim: //Why don't you come out and tell us all
who you really are? Landmarkist? Darbyist?
Scofieldite? How's about Ruckmanite? Cloudite? Larkinist?//

Uh, he could be a Priest of God, as should be all Baptists
BY DOCTRINE. Maybe he read the Bible himself and
let the Holy Spirit guide him into all good Doctrine?
Of course, I project myself on Bro Herb Evans.

I disclaimed those and told what I was in another post. I have writings in opposition to all the above. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

James_Newman]Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You tell me, Herb. Which commandments are the least of the commandments? Is it whatever little thing I don't think is important?

The fact that Jesus said THESE tells me that they have previously been referred to, so it is you that is accusing the Lord of not being specific. However the real point here is that these folk who break them are going to be in the kingdom as the lesser. Also, those that do and teach them will also be in the kingdom as the Greater. There is no third option as you Faustites teach. -- Hreb Evans

Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The fact that the bible doesn't give you an absolute line is hardly an argument against the doctrine. I find it strange that you worry so much where the line is. If you think you may be too close, get closer to Jesus.

You don't even understand the proof text that you post. The righteousness of the Pharisees was self rightousness. Self rightousness must be eexceeded by Christ's righteousness, which is not of works but of grace both for heaven AND the kingdom. The absolute that I have is that I will go to heaven and later enter the kingdom, both of which have nothing to do with the greeat commandments or the least commandments. -- Herb Evans

 

[Herb Evans]

Herb,

He is teaching heresy. What sins do most Christians commit that aren't wilful if the Holy Spirit dwells in them!?

Jam 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jam 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jam 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Jam 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jam 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jam 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jam 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Jam 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Jam 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Jam 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
Jam 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

He Also has a low estimation of what sin is.

Bro. Larry

 

[Herb Evans]

Mel, if you want to be a verse flinger and ask all the questions, I can do that too. -- Herb Evans

Galatians 3:1 O foolish FAUSTITES, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Have you begun in the Spirit and are now made perfect by the flesh?

--Herb Evans (with apologies to the KJB; It was only for effect)

 

[James_Newman]

James_Newman]Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You tell me, Herb. Which commandments are the least of the commandments? Is it whatever little thing I don't think is important?

The fact that Jesus said THESE tells me that they have previously been referred to, so it is you that is accusing the Lord of not being specific. However the real point here is that these folk who break them are going to be in the kingdom as the lesser. Also, those that do and teach them will also be in the kingdom as the Greater. There is no third option as you Faustites teach. -- Hreb Evans

Of course there is a third option, Herb. It is breaking the great commandments. If breaking the least commandments causes one to be least in the kingdom, what happens if you break the great commandments? Does that make you great in the kingdom?

Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The fact that the bible doesn't give you an absolute line is hardly an argument against the doctrine. I find it strange that you worry so much where the line is. If you think you may be too close, get closer to Jesus.

You don't even understand the proof text that you post. The righteousness of the Pharisees was self rightousness. Self rightousness must be eexceeded by Christ's righteousness, which is not of works but of grace both for heaven AND the kingdom. The absolute that I have is that I will go to heaven and later enter the kingdom, both of which have nothing to do with the greeat commandments or the least commandments. -- Herb Evans

The pharisees were guilty of devouring widows' houses, all the while pretending to be holy because they tithed their herbs, Herb. You could draw comparisons to someone who preached fiery sermons from the pulpit, but spent his off time getting massages from gay prostitutes. Is that man saved? Sure. Is that man going to be in trouble at the judgment seat? Surely.

 

[webdog]

Herb, what does KJB have to do with this discussion?

 

[James_Newman]

Oh? You mean you never willfully sin? Is a willfull sin any sin? What are the sins that you can get away with? -- Herb Evans
Why can you never answer this truthfully? Surely, you should know!

Sorry, webdog, didn't see your question here. I don't understand what is so difficult with the word willfully. It's a sin, that you know is a sin, and you do it anyway.