TEN Commandments - e.g. "do not take God's name in vain".. still moral law

[HankD]

Growing up Jewish I was taught a LOVE and a JOY for the giving of Torah. Celebrated with a "new years eve style" party on last day of Shavuot. The Law was NOT the imposition of a horrible system on reluctant nation (like so many Christians believe) but rather the glorious communication by God to His people. Man still lived by faith like Abraham, believing the matrix of the sacrificial system brought them into a right relationship with God. Faith, not works, saved them as it has all from Adam.

But more important than the Law (which all were to obey and which all failed) was the Covenant. Exodus 19:5 "Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant . . " Before God called Israel to keep His law (not given in list form yet), He commanded them to “keep My covenant".

I have a Jewish inheritance from my mother's side but was not convinced that my mother was Jewish until the family did an historical trace. So I have no inkling of what you say since my mother refused to talk about it.
Her family was Prussian - from a family of nobility - named Sulke and yes there were Jewish families in the lines of nobility in the Prussian region.

On another note, I have worked as a software engineer with an Hasidim man and I am glad that we are not under the law but grace and walk in the Spirit.

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Don't get me wrong, my favorite Psalm is 119.

However if anyone (myself included) wants to voluntarily keep any part of the law, including Sabbath keeping (understanding that it gains no merit in the sight of God applicable to salvation) then who am I to object?.

Ultimately we are to rest in the works of Jesus Christ apart from anything we do (Hebrews 3 and 4 - appropriately given to Hebrew Christians).

By the time I came along I received only 1/4 of my heritage from the Ashkenazim but born into a Catholic Italian family.

But I may participate in some of the festivals to experience the Jewish part of my heritage firsthand perhaps in Israel if my health allows, Deo Volante.

We have deduced that my maternal grandmother (who married my grandfather - an Italian immigrant) here in America was closemouthed because of antisemitism in her Boston neighborhood.

She did have a Mediterranean look about her so she probably passed as Italian though she did have an eastern European maiden name.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Are you Ashkenazi Dr. Bob?

HankD

 

[HankD]

Dr Bob, how is your health, I remember you saying you were not well

Numbers 6
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

HankD

 

[steaver]

The TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

Dear Bob, Bob, Bob...

Still kicking against the pricks I see. Just embrace the grace of God my friend!

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed!!!!!!!!"

 

[BobRyan]

Moses did not write with verse divisions or numbers... or even chapter divisions.

"The THEM" of verse 5 show that 4 and 5 are the same command

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Click to expand...

Referring back to "Them" in vs 5 pointing at vs 4-- for one complete thought.

Then there are not necessarily 10 commands; they can be divided or combined. You combine them; I divide them.

And Israel had images that they did not bow down before NOR promise to serve the beings that they represent. I assume everyone is ok with that.

As for the numbering of the Commandments - the Jews did that long before there ever was an RCC. Protestants use the older method -- the one the Jews had already found.

 

[BobRyan]

We don't need the 10 commandments Bob,

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:15 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Eph 6:2 - the 5th commandment "is the FIRST Commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of THE LAW" -- still even in the NT
Rom 3:31 "Do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"

Thus it is "still a sin" even for Christians - to take God's name in vain.

NEW Covenant -- Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

Bible details matter.

Emotionalism... not so much.

 

[BobRyan]

Growing up Jewish I was taught a LOVE and a JOY for the giving of Torah. Celebrated with a "new years eve style" party on last day of Shavuot. The Law was NOT the imposition of a horrible system on reluctant nation (like so many Christians believe) but rather the glorious communication by God to His people. .

True. John makes your point in 1 John 5:2-3

 

[BobRyan]

Dear Bob, Bob, Bob...

Still kicking against the pricks I see.

Less imagination please... more fact.

 

[BobRyan]

But more important than the Law (which all were to obey and which all failed) was the Covenant. Exodus 19:5 "Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant . . " Before God called Israel to keep His law (not given in list form yet), He commanded them to “keep My covenant".

Speaking of Israel... the house of Judah... the New Covenant.

Jer 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

 

[HankD]

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:15 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Eph 6:2 - the 5th commandment "is the FIRST Commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of THE LAW" -- still even in the NT
Rom 3:31 "Do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"

Thus it is "still a sin" even for Christians - to take God's name in vain.

NEW Covenant -- Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

Bible details matter.

Emotionalism... not so much.

These are not referring to the 10 commandments.

The commandments of God are not the commandments of the mosaic law.
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Ephesians 6 2 Paul is using the law as instruction to children because they probably have not been born again and do not have the Spirit of God guiding them. They are still under the law.

The Spirit of God has never led me into sin. When we walk in the Spirit we don't want to sin.

I don't want to sin not because of the 613 commandments given by Moses but because of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Sin is repulsive to me.Not because of any goodness of my own, but the Spirit of Christ.

A sheep does not need to be told not to wallow in the pig sty.

Just so you will know I don't take the Lord's name in vain because I am one of his sheep, not a hog.

The Spirit of God is my guide through life not Moses.

1 John 3
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

HankD

 

[Alcott]

And Israel had images that they did not bow down before NOR promise to serve the beings that they represent. I assume everyone is ok with that.

There's nothing wrong with having a statue of Zeus or Poseidon in church as long as nobody worships them? Okay.

 

[steaver]

Less imagination please... more fact.

Repeat after me, "Lord Jesus, forgive me a sinner, forgive me of the sins I commit daily against my fellow man and against You my God, thank you for going to the cross, thank you for doing that which I could not do, for keeping the Law that brought death to me, thank You for nailing that Law to Your cross and replacing the Law's condemnation with Your grace through faith, thank You for no longer holding that Law against me as I fail daily to love You with all my heart, body and soul and as I fail to love my neighbour as myself, thank You for giving me Your Holy Spirit to teach me and guide me as I fail Your commandments and fall short of Your Glory, thank You for Your promise to one day rid me of this body of death when I will fail Your Law no more, Amen."

 

[HankD]

Hi Bob,

Sheep do on occasion get dirty.
But sheep must depend on their shepherd to cleanse them.
The sheep cannot cleanse themselves.
Moses cannot.

Only the Good Shepherd can cleanse His sheep.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Not only that He gives them what Moses cannot: Eternal Life.

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews 4
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief


HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:15 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Exodus 20:6 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
Eph 6:2 - the 5th commandment "is the FIRST Commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN
1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of THE LAW" -- still even in the NT
Rom 3:31 "Do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law"

Thus it is "still a sin" even for Christians - to take God's name in vain.

NEW Covenant -- Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

Bible details matter.

Emotionalism... not so much.

Jeremiah was directing that towards the house of israel, correct?
And what does God use to save lost sinners? The Cross or His Law being kept?

 

[BobRyan]

NEW Covenant -- Jeremiah 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jeremiah was directing that towards the house of israel, correct?
And what does God use to save lost sinners? The Cross or His Law being kept?

There is only ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 and.. "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. The New Covenant IS the Gospel.

And Hebrews 8:6-10 reminds us that it is UNCHANGED in the NT. It is how God reaches the lost - by this Gospel promise.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob,
Sheep do on occasion get dirty.

True.

1 John 2:1
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

But sheep must depend on their shepherd to cleanse them.
The sheep cannot cleanse themselves.

True - it is all the work of the Gospel - the work of the Holy Spirit - it is the work that is done via faith in Christ -- work done by those already saved, already born-again.

Hi Bob,
Moses cannot.

Only the Good Shepherd can cleanse His sheep.

True - and yet as Moses said - as God spoke -- it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" -- even for Christians. An sin is still defined as "Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- even in the NT

A point that even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" agrees with.

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew 11
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

True before the cross as we see in Matthew 11.
And true after the cross.

No change.

 

[BobRyan]

Repeat after me, "Lord Jesus, forgive me "

Steaver .. repeat after me...

 

[HankD]

True - and yet as Moses said - as God spoke -- it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" -- even for Christians. An sin is still defined as "Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- even in the NT.

Bob I have no problem with this statement.
I didn't say otherwise.

But as a Christian I don't know that I ever have.

I was saved while in the military. I was a drinker and a blasphemer.
That ceased almost immediately. No one told me that it had to go.
The Spirit within me led me away from the hog wallow.

Maybe early on I did, but I honestly don't think so.

I'm far from perfect. In fact, the older I get the more the evidence builds.


HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

NEW Covenant -- Jeremiah 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.



There is only ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 and.. "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. The New Covenant IS the Gospel.

And Hebrews 8:6-10 reminds us that it is UNCHANGED in the NT. It is how God reaches the lost - by this Gospel promise.

Are we the lost sheep of Israel and Judah?

 

[Yeshua1]

True before the cross as we see in Matthew 11.
And true after the cross.

No change.

Except that your church adds the burden of law keeping to Grace!