Ten Commandments, So What??

[Joe]

Last time, I thought it was Bob, me and only one other person rooting for the 10 commandments as still binding.

So now the majority has changed their minds according to this poll? It would have been interesting to read the names if this poll wasn't private.




Bob must be having an impact on you all

 

[Alcott]

Interesting how the majority here found a place to vote for the commandments as still binding - and yet the minority claim that this poll can not really be taken??

Get a brain. It's been pointed out that there are more possible answers than the ones you stuck in your poll, so any "majority" you're talking about is only among those who voted and only among the possible answers; those whose answer is not there, like myself, did not vote or did not vote with complete truth. That's like polling "What is your favorite kind of pie?.... Minced, lemon, or blueberry" and if 11 out of 20 said blueberry you would conclude blueberry is favorite among the posters here. But those whose favorite is apple or peach or chocolate or key lime..... either would not vote, or give a false impression by voting their favorite only among the 3 options.

 

[rstrats]

ByGracethroughFaith,

re: "The seventh day sabbath required absence of work, the eighth day is for fullness of worship."


Where in the Bible is a specific day of the week referred to as the "eighth day", and where in the Bible is that day set aside for "fullness of worship"?

 

[trustitl]

10 Commandments

I would like at least 2 people to respond to this question:

Why are you limiting the law to the 10 Commandments when Jesus said in
Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

And God himself in Deut. 8:1 "All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live"

Look through the book of Deuteronomy and see all that was commanded on "this day".

 

[Ed Edwards]

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

...

// Why are you limiting the law to the 10 Commandments
... (?) //

I didn't. Note the source above talks about 613 commandments:

//According to Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah,
as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews
and are therefore only binding upon them, having inherited
the obligation from their ancestors.//

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

ByGracethroughFaith,

re: "The seventh day sabbath required absence of work, the eighth day is for fullness of worship."


Where in the Bible is a specific day of the week referred to as the "eighth day", and where in the Bible is that day set aside for "fullness of worship"?

From the ISBE

http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T5575

"Lord's day" in the New Testament occurs only in Revelation 1:10, but in the post-apostolic literature we have the following references:

Ignatius, Ad Mag., ix.1, "No longer keeping the Sabbath but living according to the Lord's day, on which also our Light arose"; Ev. Pet., verse 35, "The Lord's day began to dawn" (compare Matthew 28:1); verse 50, "early on the Lord's day" (compare Luke 24:1); Barn 15 9, "We keep the eighth day with gladness," on which Jesus arose from the dead." I.e. Sunday, as the day of Christ's resurrection, was kept as a Christian feast and called "the Lord's day," a title fixed so definitely as to be introduced by the author of Ev. Pet. into phrases from the canonical Gospels. Its appropriateness in Revelation 1:10 is obvious, as John received his vision of the exalted Lord when all Christians had their minds directed toward His entrance into glory through the resurrection.

....
5. Sunday and the Sabbath:

Sunday, however, was sharply distinguished from the Sabbath. One was the day on which worship was offered in a specifically Christian form, the other was a day of ritual rest to be observed by all who were subject [to] the Law of Moses through circumcision (Galatians 5:3; compare Acts 21:20). Uncircumcised Gentiles, however, were free from any obligation of Sabbath observance, and it is quite certain that in apostolic times no renewal of any Sabbath rules or transfer of them to Sunday was made for Gentile converts.

BGTF

 

[Chemnitz]

I know I am joining this discussion late but what does honoring your father and mother have to do with Sunday?

 

[billwald]

Isn't a single verse in Exo thru Deut that applies to gentiles in Florida or applies to one's status in the next life.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Of course there are still Ten Commandments; there will always be Ten Commandments. The question is, are they all binding and in force today. Are all ten restated under the NT dispensation of grace? The answer is "no;" all but one are restated clearly in the NT. Therefore, nine of the original Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from the mount are still binding today. That doesn't change the fact that there are Ten Commandments.

There are still twelve disciples regardless of the fact that Judas betrayed the Lord and went and hung himself after the crucifixion. Then, only eleven of the twelve were active and relevant to the work of God. The same is true of then Ten Commandments; only nine of them are relevant today.

 

[BobRyan]

Last time, I thought it was Bob, me and only one other person rooting for the 10 commandments as still binding.

So now the majority has changed their minds according to this poll? It would have been interesting to read the names if this poll wasn't private.

Bob must be having an impact on you all

Actually a lot of good surprises here -

1. Only two people think the ten commandments can be edited by the traditions/customs of men! Fantastic!
2. Almost 24 so far agree that the commandments of God are binding (even if they don't agree that all ten of them are). This is as contrasted to the 4 or 5 who think they are all abolished or all nailed to the cross.

We only have around 4 or 5 people voting that the commandments of God can be ignored or have been abolished!

This is really good news!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Of course there are still Ten Commandments; there will always be Ten Commandments. The question is, are they all binding and in force today.

Correct.

1. Are the Commandments of God still binding? (yes/no)
2. If yes then - Are all TEN Commandments still binding? (yes/no)
3. If "no" then how many survive in your view?

Are all ten restated under the NT

No. The third commandment is the only one not quoted or repeated in the NT.

7 "" You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.

Fortunately for us there is no Bible support at all for the rule "whatever is not constantly repeated is automatically deleted from God's Word". So the third commandment is still binding.

all but one are restated clearly in the NT.

Well now see - we agree on something on this thread.

Therefore, nine of the original Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from the mount are still binding today.

Well I can't go with you on that one -- I am still holding out for the 3rd commandment being binding even though it is not clearly quoted in the NT.

The 2nd also has the distinction of not being quoted but it is clearly referenced. (Whew! That was a close one)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Isn't a single verse in Exo thru Deut that applies to gentiles in Florida or applies to one's status in the next life.

That is because it is scripture -- the Word of God.

That is why Paul says to Timothy -

2 Tim 3[/b]
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15 and that from childhood you have known thesacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work



Timothy as we all know -- was a Jew!!:laugh:

IF Timothy had been Gentile Paul would havce written

2 Tim 3[/b]
16 SOME Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work -- so be very careful about which scripture you cautiously accept and which scripture you faithfully reject. Woe be unto him who accepts scripture that should be soundly rejected. You will do well Timothy if you follow this simple rule -- any scripture not clearly repeated after the writing of this letter to you can be deleted"

 

[BobRyan]

I would like at least 2 people to respond to this question:

Why are you limiting the law to the 10 Commandments when Jesus said in
Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Deut 5
22 ""These words the LORD spoke[/b] to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone[/b] and gave them to me.

However in the poll I was careful to restrict this to the commandments as God limits them above. Further both Paul (Romans 7) and James (James 2) appear to agree on this --

Notice what Paul says in Eph 6:1-4?
Which commandment is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise??

First in TEN??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Fundamental Baptist Institute http://www.fbinstitute.com/

presents

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS


BY
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.[b

BINDING TODAY
Some people seem to think we have got beyond the commandments. What did Christ say?
"Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till Heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18)
The commandments of God given to Moses in the Mount at Horeb are as binding today as ever they have been since the time they were proclaimed in the hearing of the people. The Jews said the law was not given in Palestine (which belonged to Israel), but in the wilderness, because the law was for all nations.

Jesus never condemned the law and the prophets, but He did condemn those who did not obey them. Because He gave new commandments, it does not follow that He abolished the old. Christ's explanation of them made them all the more searching. In His Sermon on the Mount, He carried the principles of the commandments beyond the mere letter. He unfolded them and showed that they embraced more, that they are positive as well as prohibitive. The Old Testament closes with these words:
"Remember ye the Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the Statutes and Judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the Earth with a curse." (Malachi 4:4-6)
Does that look as if the law of Moses was becoming obsolete?

The conviction deepens in me with the years that the old truths of the Bible must be stated and restated in the plainest possible language. I do not remember ever to have heard a sermon preached on the commandments. I have an index of two thousand five hundred sermons preached by Spurgeon, and not one of them selects its text from the first seventeen verses of Exodus 20. The people must be made to understand that the Ten Commandments are still binding, and that there is a penalty attached to their violation. We do not want a gospel of mere sentiment. The Sermon on the Mount did not blot out the Ten Commandments.

When Christ came He condensed the statement of the law into this form:
"Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength... [and] thy neighbour as thyself." (Mark 12:30,31)
Paul said:
"Love is the fulfilling of the Law." (Romans 13:10)
But does this mean that the detailed precepts of the Decalogue are superseded and have become back numbers? Does a father cease to give children rules to obey because they love him? Does a nation burn its statute books because the people have become patriotic? Not at all. And yet people speak as if the commandments do not hold for Christians because they have come to love God. Paul said:
"Do we then make void the Law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:31)
It still holds good. The Commandments are necessary. So long as we obey, they do not rest heavy upon us; but as soon as we try to break away, we find they are like fences to keep us within bounds. Horses need bridles even after they have been properly broken in.
"We know that the Law is good, if a man use it lawfully; knowing this, that the Law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine." (1 Timothy 1:8-10)
Now, my friend, are you ready to be weighed by this law of God? A great many people say that if they keep the commandments they do not need to be forgiven and saved through Christ. But have you kept them? I will admit that if you perfectly keep the commandments, you do not need to be saved by Christ; but is there a man in the wide world who can truly say that he has done this? Young lady, can you say: "I am ready to be weighed by the law."? Can you, young man? Will you step into the scales and be weighed one by one by the Ten Commandments?

Now face these Ten Commandments honestly and prayerfully. See if your life is right, and if you are treating God fairly. God's statutes are just, are they not? If they are right, let us see if we are right. Let us get alone with God and read His law- read it carefully and prayerfully, and ask Him to forgive us our sin and what He would have us to do.

[/QB][/quote]

 

[BobRyan]

come on! Someone else has to admit to being a bit surprised on this point besides me and Joe! Surely there are others who did not expect the poll to turn out so clearly in favor of God's commandments still being binding rather than nailed to the cross and abolished!!

 

[trustitl]

10 Commandments

I am not surprised at the results. The way this whole thing has been protrayed has made people think that saying they are not binding is giving license to do whatever one wants.

I am just glad the word "binding" is being used. It is as close to bondage as possible.

Paul called himself a bond servant of Christ.

Binding implies control.

Websters 1828 LAW, n. [L. lex; from the root of lay. ]
That which governs or has a tendency to rule; that which has the power of controlling.

What is the controlling influence in a Christian's life. The Law? Or Christ? We are called Christians you know.

Col. 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Gal. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Websters 1828
AGAINST, prep. agenst'.
8. In provision for; in preparation for.

In other words: there is no law that will produce the fruit if the Spirit. If it did it would be called the fruit of the law.

Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

 

[BobRyan]

Are all ten restated under the NT dispensation of grace? The answer is "no;" all but one are restated clearly in the NT.

3 Questions on the "what is not repeated should be deleted" model for knowing what part of God's Word is still authorotative today for us.

1. Is the NT dispensation of grace pre-cross or post cross?
2. Are the words and teaching of Christ pre-cross part of the "dispensation of Grace" while He was on earth?
3. Prior to being on earth - while He was in Heaven as God the Son but not yet as the God-man?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matt 19:17 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 14:15 (quoting from the 10 commandments) “IF you love Me Keep My commandments”


I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Ephesians 6
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),
3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.

It is left as an exercise for the reader to see that these are all references to the unity between the Word of God and the Word of Christ.. Commandments of God and Commandments of Christ – for the “The Lord your God is ONE” – the Triune God is not divided “Christ vs the Father”.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

3 Questions on the "what is not repeated should be deleted" model for knowing what part of God's Word is still authorotative today for us.

1. Is the NT dispensation of grace pre-cross or post cross?

Pre-cross and post-cross*

2. Are the words and teaching of Christ pre-cross part of the "dispensation of Grace" while He was on earth?

Absolutely*

3. Prior to being on earth - while He was in Heaven as God the Son but not yet as the God-man?

This dispensation was clearly law*






*Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (KJV)

 

[BobRyan]

OK so keeping the priniciples of exegesis clearly in mind - let's take that view above and look at the John 14:15 statement of Christ quoting from the Ten Commandments as He said

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me Keep My commandments"

Ex 20:
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

What is does the term "Commandments" and specifically "Love Me and Keep My Commandments" mean to the intended audience of Christ as He speaks these words in John14 Pre-cross?

Are they thinking "Dispensation of grace - Christ can not be talking about the commandments of scripture?"

What would be the primary - intended understanding of the speaker to his hearers at that pre-cross point in time?

in Christ,

Bob