Ten Commandments, So What??

[BobRyan]

John 14:15 "" If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



This is interesting as it is the only quote of the actual text of the 2nd commandment found in the NT.

Ex 20:
4 "" You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 "" You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


Christ “starts” His ministry with a statemet making specific claims about the “commandments” and His role in relationship to the imperatives found in the Word of God.

Matt 5
17 ""Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets[/b]; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 ""For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law[/b] until all is accomplished.
19 ""[b]Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same[/b], shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them[/b], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

As context for John 14 – Christ claims that the source of all His statements is in fact the Father. He never argues “His Commandments are not the Father’s Commandments” as some popular stories would have it told....

John 12:
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

 

[trustitl]

The Commandments

I am not surprised at the results. The way this whole thing has been protrayed has made people think that saying they are not binding is giving license to do whatever one wants.

I am just glad the word "binding" is being used. It is as close to bondage as possible.

Paul called himself a bond servant of Christ.

Binding implies control.

Websters 1828 LAW, n. [L. lex; from the root of lay. ]
That which governs or has a tendency to rule; that which has the power of controlling.

What is the controlling influence in a Christian's life. The Law? Or Christ? We are called Christians you know.

Col. 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Gal. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Websters 1828
AGAINST, prep. agenst'.
8. In provision for; in preparation for.

In other words: there is no law that will produce the fruit if the Spirit. If it did it would be called the fruit of the law.

Gal. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

 

[trustitl]

10 Commandments

I would like at least 2 people to respond to this question: (only one has so far)

Why are you limiting the law to the 10 Commandments?

Jesus said in
Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

And God said in
Deut. 8:1 "All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live"

Look through the book of Deuteronomy and see all that was commanded on "this day".

 

[trustitl]

10 Commandments

Bob's Gospel (Good News)

1. Only two people think the ten commandments can be edited by the traditions/customs of men! Fantastic!
2. Almost 24 so far agree that the commandments of God are binding (even if they don't agree that all ten of them are). This is as contrasted to the 4 or 5 who think they are all abolished or all nailed to the cross.

We only have around 4 or 5 people voting that the commandments of God can be ignored or have been abolished!

This is really good news!

Gal. 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[BobRyan]

John 14:15 "" If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



This is interesting as it is the only quote of the actual text of the 2nd commandment found in the NT.

Ex 20:
4 "" You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 "" You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


Christ “starts” His ministry with a statemet making specific claims about the “commandments” and His role in relationship to the imperatives found in the Word of God.

Matt 5
17 ""Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets[/b]; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 ""For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law[/b] until all is accomplished.
19 ""[b]Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same[/b], shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them[/b], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

As context for John 14 – Christ claims that the source of all His statements is in fact the Father. He never argues “His Commandments are not the Father’s Commandments” as some popular stories would have it told....

John 12:
49 "" For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

1. Only two people think the ten commandments can be edited by the traditions/customs of men! Fantastic!
2. Almost 24 so far agree that the commandments of God are binding (even if they don't agree that all ten of them are). This is as contrasted to the 4 or 5 who think they are all abolished or all nailed to the cross.

We only have around 4 or 5 people voting that the commandments of God can be ignored or have been abolished!

This is really good news!

 

[billwald]

The 613 statements of the Law obligate Jews and anyone living in Israel. What have they to do with gentiles in Hoboken?

 

[BobRyan]

Let's ask the NT writers -- writing decades AFTER the cross!

WHY is it that Paul writes

Rom 3:31 NASB
"Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law"[/b] Rom 3:31 NASB

Rom 3:31 NKJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 NIV
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Rom 3:31 KJV
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3:31 YLT
31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.



The Post-cross teaching of the apostles CONTINUES to support that importance of God’s Word – God’s Commandments – and obedience rather than rebellion.

I Jn 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
14[b] Blessed are they that do his commandments,[/b] that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matt 19:17 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 15:10-11 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 14:15 (quoting from the 10 commandments) “IF you love Me Keep My commandments”


I Jn 2:3-4
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Ephesians 6
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),
3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH.

It is left as an exercise for the reader to see that these are all references to the unity between the Word of God and the Word of Christ.. Commandments of God and Commandments of Christ – for the “The Lord your God is ONE” – the Triune God is not divided “Christ vs the Father”.

 

[BobRyan]

More on Eph 6 from Jamieson,. Fausset, Brown

Eph 6 (JFB)
2. Here the authority of revealed law is added to that of natural law.
which is . . . promise--The "promise" is not made the main motive to obedience, but an incidental one. The main motive is, because it is God's will (De 5:16, "Honor thy father and mother, as the Lord thy God hath COMMANDED thee"); and that it is so peculiarly, is shown by His accompanying it "with a promise."
first--in the decalogue with a special promise. The promise in the second commandment is a general one. Their duty is more expressly prescribed to children than to parents; for love descends rather than ascends [BENGEL]. This verse proves the law in the Old Testament is not abolished.

http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=eph&chapter=006

 

[trustitl]

I would like at least 2 people to respond to this question: (only one has so far)

Why are you limiting the law to the 10 Commandments?

Jesus said in
Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

And God said in
Deut. 8:1 "All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live"

Look through the book of Deuteronomy and see all that was commanded on "this day".

Still waiting for some comments regarding this question.:sleeping_2:

 

[BobRyan]

I found someone for you -- Adam Clarke -


Exodus 20 – Adam Clarke
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
The laws delivered on Mount Sinai have been variously named. In Deuteronomy 4:13, they are called asereth haddebarim, THE TEN WORDS. In the preceding chapter, Exodus 19:5, God calls them eth berithi, my COVENANT, i.e., the agreement he entered into with the people of Israel to take them for his peculiar people, if they took him for their God and portion. IF ye will obey my voice indeed, and KEEP my COVENANT, THEN shall ye be a peculiar treasure unto me. And the word covenant here evidently refers to the laws given in this chapter, as is evident from Deuteronomy 4:13: And he declared unto you his COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS. They have been also termed the moral law, because they contain and lay down rules for the regulation of the manners or conduct of men. Sometimes they have been termed the LAW, hattorah, by way of eminence, as containing the grand system of spiritual instruction, direction, guidance, Exodus 12:49. See Clarke on Exodus 12:49. And frequently the DECALOGUE, δεκαλογος, which is a literal translation into Greek of the asereth haddebarim, or TEN WORDS, of Moses.
Among divines they are generally divided into what they term the first and second tables. The FIRST table containing the first, second, third, and fourth commandments, and comprehending the whole system of theology, the true notions we should form of the Divine nature, the reverence we owe and the religious service we should render to him. The SECOND, containing the six last commandments, and comprehending a complete system of ethics, or moral duties, which man owes to his fellows, and on the due performance of which the order, peace and happiness of society depend. By this division, the FIRST table contains our duty to GOD; the SECOND our duty to our NEIGHBOUR. This division, which is natural enough, refers us to the grand principle, love to God and love to man, through which both tables are observed. 1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength. 2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two hang all the law and the prophets. See Clarke on Matthew 22:37.; and "Mt 22:38". See Clarke on Matthew 22:39.; and "Mt 22:40".
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ex&chapter=020

 

[trustitl]

Ten Commandments

If Jesus is only upholding the 10 Commandments and not the entire "law" why is he quoting things outside the "asereth haddebarim, THE TEN WORDS?"


Matt. 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (Deut 24:1)

Matt. 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (Lev. 24:20)

 

[BobRyan]

I found someone for you -- Adam Clarke -


Exodus 20 – Adam Clarke
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
The laws delivered on Mount Sinai have been variously named. In Deuteronomy 4:13, they are called asereth haddebarim, THE TEN WORDS. In the preceding chapter, Exodus 19:5, God calls them eth berithi, my COVENANT, i.e., the agreement he entered into with the people of Israel to take them for his peculiar people, if they took him for their God and portion. IF ye will obey my voice indeed, and KEEP my COVENANT, THEN shall ye be a peculiar treasure unto me. And the word covenant here evidently refers to the laws given in this chapter, as is evident from Deuteronomy 4:13: And he declared unto you his COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS. They have been also termed the moral law, because they contain and lay down rules for the regulation of the manners or conduct of men. Sometimes they have been termed the LAW, hattorah, by way of eminence, as containing the grand system of spiritual instruction, direction, guidance, Exodus 12:49. See Clarke on Exodus 12:49. And frequently the DECALOGUE, δεκαλογος, which is a literal translation into Greek of the asereth haddebarim, or TEN WORDS, of Moses.
Among divines they are generally divided into what they term the first and second tables. The FIRST table containing the first, second, third, and fourth commandments, and comprehending the whole system of theology, the true notions we should form of the Divine nature, the reverence we owe and the religious service we should render to him. The SECOND, containing the six last commandments, and comprehending a complete system of ethics, or moral duties, which man owes to his fellows, and on the due performance of which the order, peace and happiness of society depend. By this division, the FIRST table contains our duty to GOD; the SECOND our duty to our NEIGHBOUR. This division, which is natural enough, refers us to the grand principle, love to God and love to man, through which both tables are observed. 1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind, and strength. 2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two hang all the law and the prophets. See Clarke on Matthew 22:37.; and "Mt 22:38". See Clarke on Matthew 22:39.; and "Mt 22:40".
[URL]http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=ex&chapter=020[/URL]

Here is another source for you --


Deut 5
22 ""These words the LORD spoke[/b] to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone[/b] and gave them to me.

Hint: It does no good to point out that there is MORE scripture in the bible OTHER than the Ten Commandments as if that fact could ever undo-the Unit of Ten - because God's argument here is NOT "the Ten Commandments are the only part of My Word that I care about".

Even so - they "exist" and in fact are a DISTINCT UNIT that God defines such that when you see God's Law referenced in Romans 7 and in James 2 -- the EXAMPLES given come from His TEN Commandments.

They exist.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[trustitl]

10 Commandments

If we prove our love of God by keeping his commandments, which ones are they?

A. If you love me you will keep the 10 Commandments(including the Sabbath)

B. If you love me you will keep the whole law.

Deut. 8:1 "All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live"

Including but not limited to:

Deut. 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.

Deut. 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together.

Deut. 25:11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: 12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand

C. I John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

D. None of the above

 

[BobRyan]

It your question is for Christ - then let's ask Christ --

In John 14:15 Christ is actually quoting from the Ten Commandments.

I am going to have to go with scripture on that one.

As for Christ's acceptance of scripture as the unbreakable Word of God instead of the "if not repeated then assumed deleted" transient Word of God --let's take a look at what HE said.

Matt 5
17 ""[b]Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets[/b]; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 ""For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law[/b] until all is accomplished.
19 ""[b]Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same[/b], shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but [b]whoever keeps and teaches them[/b], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When the woman was brought to Christ caught in the sin of adultery - does Christ say "the law is abolished so why are you asking Me to decide matters of the Law of God"??

As for the "rest of scripture" as you like to reference -- tell me this -- what is going on here in Acts 21?
What is Paul being falsely accused of doing?
How does he disprove his false accusers?


Acts 21
21 and [b]they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses[/b], telling them not to circumcise[/b] their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 ""What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 ""Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and [b]purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

 

[trustitl]

Ten Commandments

So it's B?

 

[steaver]

So it's B?

I'm no prophet, but I do know brother BobRyan and I predict you will never get an a,b,c or d answer from him.

Good post though. I would like to see him answer but that would cause him alot of grief.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

It your question is for Christ - then let's ask Christ --

In John 14:15 Christ is actually quoting from the Ten Commandments.

Hint: So that means John 14:15 is "A" at the very least since the 10 commandments are being quoted.

Pretty hard to miss that answer.

I am going to have to go with scripture on that one.

As for Christ's acceptance of scripture as the unbreakable Word of God instead of the "if not repeated then assumed deleted" transient Word of God --let's take a look at what HE said.

Matt 5
17 ""[b]Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets[/b]; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 ""For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law[/b] until all is accomplished.
19 ""[b]Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same[/b], shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but [b]whoever keeps and teaches them[/b], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When the woman was brought to Christ caught in the sin of adultery - does Christ say "the law is abolished so why are you asking Me to decide matters of the Law of God"??

As for the "rest of scripture" as you like to reference -- tell me this -- what is going on here in Acts 21?
What is Paul being falsely accused of doing?
How does he disprove his false accusers?


Acts 21
21 and [b]they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses[/b], telling them not to circumcise[/b] their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 ""What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 ""Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and [b]purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

I think this may be the part of the Gospels you were hoping to avoid. (Easier to make this a discussion "about Bobryan" than to respond to the details in the Gospel text given above)

On the upside - we now have 16 saying that God's 10 Commandments stand - 2 for a slight edit of them -- still standing and at least 7 that think that a slightly downsized version of them remains still binding. Those arguing for the commandments of God being nailed ot the cross and abolished -- seem to be in the minority. I find this very very surprising.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Hint: So that means John 14:15 is "A" at the very least since the 10 commandments are being quoted.

Well there is a option for more than the 10 commandments, that would be "B". "A" does not say "at the very least". You could pick "D" and then give us another option maybe.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Since you are being careful to avoid both the words of Christ in Matt 5 AND the scenario with Paul in Acts 21 --- there they are "Again".

I am going to have to go with scripture on that one.

As for Christ's acceptance of scripture as the unbreakable Word of God instead of the "if not repeated then assumed deleted" transient Word of God --let's take a look at what HE said.

Matt 5
17 ""[b]Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets[/b]; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 ""For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law[/b] until all is accomplished.
19 ""[b]Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same[/b], shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but [b]whoever keeps and teaches them[/b], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When the woman was brought to Christ caught in the sin of adultery - does Christ say "the law is abolished so why are you asking Me to decide matters of the Law of God"??

As for the "rest of scripture" as you like to reference -- tell me this --
what is going on here in Acts 21?
What is Paul being falsely accused of doing?
How does he disprove his false accusers?


Acts 21
21 and [b]they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses[/b], telling them not to circumcise[/b] their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 ""What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 ""Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and [b]purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

 

[BobRyan]

If one notices the recent arguments being given against God's Ten Commandments they are of the form "We don't want to keep them all because keeping them might mean we ALSO have to honor and obey the rest of scripture as well - and we all know we don't want to have to do THAT".

How can the unbiased objective reader miss this implied argument in what has been stated so far??

in Christ,

Bob