Texas judge under fire over discipline video

[Arbo]

One swat on the butt. To immediately stop an unacceptable behavior.

My dad had rhythm...one spank per syllable, "don't...you...ever..let...me...catch...you....doing....that...."

Probably how I chose my vocation.

My Mom used a wooden spoon, until she broke it over my butt. I turned around and laughed at her. Thereafter it was Dad's leather belt which was far worse.

 

[jaigner]

What in God's glorious name makes you think this kind of baseless, ignorant response is helpful or remotely Christian?

I'm ashamed I read this and sad for you.

Rude? Maybe. Cutting? Definitely. Sub-Christian? You could argue it, but plenty of respected theologians have used stronger and harsher language. Ignorant? No. Baseless? No.

We're talking about blatant, sickening, repulsive child abuse, and this fellow is defending it. As someone who works with children and has seen how this kind of abuse can destroy children, I am so offended by this. I may have forgotten my manners, but his attitude makes me physically ill.

I've been "disciplined" here (as if they actually could) for saying "hell" in the wrong context. Here we have someone defending and condoning child abuse who isn't even censored. What a joke!

 

[mandym]

Rude? Maybe. Cutting? Definitely. Sub-Christian? You could argue it, but plenty of respected theologians have used stronger and harsher language. Ignorant? No. Baseless? No.

We're talking about blatant, sickening, repulsive child abuse, and this fellow is defending it. As someone who works with children and has seen how this kind of abuse can destroy children, I am so offended by this. I may have forgotten my manners, but his attitude makes me physically ill.

I've been "disciplined" here (as if they actually could) for saying "hell" in the wrong context. Here we have someone defending and condoning child abuse who isn't even censored. What a joke!

There is always some "respected theologian" for you. Now you have used these respected theologians for this poor behavior.

 

[Gina B]

Well, you all will have to haul me off too.

Yeah, he screwed up and lost his temper, but I don't see any reason for the courts to be involved.

She was repeatedly stealing, defying authority, and refused to accept responsibility for it. She set up the video camera and didn't use the "evidence" until daddy cut off her money and during the video, appeared to push every button of his that she knew how to push and played it up for the camera. That tells me her motivation wasn't to help stop anything going on, it was a planned, thought out action to take him down when she didn't get what she wanted.

And smart woman. It's working.

I don't advocate spanking and losing one's temper.

However, humans do sometimes lose their tempers and snap. Her repeated criminal actions, if they were done just a short time later, could well have landed her in a prison cell where she would become the unwilling girlfriend of some butch chick. Her father may well have tried every legal parenting trick in the book and finally resorted to drastic measures in his frustration.

I can understand that.

If she'd done something minor and used the video to get help for herself, claiming she was living under abuse like that on a regular basis, then I'd be changing my tune real fast. She didn't though. She's an adult and she didn't do this to help herself get out of the situation or to prevent anyone else from going through it. She did it because she was mad that her Dad actually had the nerve to take away her Mercedes and tell her to get a job.

Every situation is unique. While I can't imagine reacting like that to any of my teens, I've never had one of my teens react to me in that way. If they get snotty or rude, they accept responsibility and correct the behavior. I'm lucky. In fact, the one has always been very sensitive to just giving her a look and knowing I was disappointed. That would bring her to tears and repentance. Then there was another who needed a stronger hand and while I rarely used spanking, (you can count how many on your hands) that was what she responded to when she was a little one and defied me outright.

There are some kids out there who have great parents and they still do ridiculous things and treat their parents like garbage. I see it all the time, and the parents complain that they can't do anything about it because they've tried everything legal and it didn't work. The kids mock authority because they know they can't touch them so they push, push push and I'm guessing a good many of them would benefit from getting a good whipping. Every kid is different and I just lucked out in having kids that do respond to love and logic. Some simply don't and would end up responding to physical discipline, which could well result in them being saved from a future of crime where the punishment will follow them for life rather than just make them uncomfortable and upset for an hour.

What people WANT to happen in cases like this is for the parent to step out of it and call in the good old government workers to do their job. She did something illegal, so he could have pressed charges. He didn't. He could have. He was probably scared and angry about the possibilities of what could happen to his daughter.

So while I don't agree with what he did, I hold no idea of judging him in the criminal realm for it. Despite the loss of temper, that's part of being human and like it or not, it may have saved her from something worse down the road.

BTW, lots of parents do worse on a regular basis. Work in an inner city public school and watch some of the interaction. Parents are cussing at kids on regular basis. Seems that some use cussing for every other word or use violent threats on a regular basis. In some cultures within the USA, this is pretty normal. Kid gets in trouble, parents comes in ready to knock 'em upside the head. I think a lot of people on this board are pretty sheltered and haven't seen a lot of real life. They don't realize that parents raise their kids in different ways and that you can't look at the laws made by an unbelieving government and judge the parents in a black and white way based on what the unbelievers who made the laws have decided is right and wrong. Every situation is unique, so even within the laws, there needs to be wiggle room for individual situations and some compassion for people who fail to be perfect every second of their parenting lives.

 

[jaigner]

I don't believe I'm hearing this.

The situation in the video is not an "oops-Dad-lost-his-temper" moment. It shows complete and indisputable child abuse. These are not isolated incidents, either. You can tell he is a pathological abuser.

The circumstances behind the video being released are not germane to the situation. It was a crime. I was actually rooting for her to fight back against this jerk.

Maybe she was a real behavior problem. Abused children are usually problem children. And I'd record it, too, if my dad had a history of treating me that way. She should have turned it over immediately.

For the love, people. I'm always accused of being unnecessarily nebulous and general. This is black and white. Those parents are committing crimes.

Good for mom to leave that home. Too bad she didn't do it before her child had to be put through hell living with that abuser.

 

[preachinjesus]

You know jaigner, you can object to the behavior in the video (like I do) without being disagreeable and acting in a way that is unbecoming of a believer.

 

[carpro]

Texas prisons are full of young men and women whose parents did not care enough, or were too scared, to place limits on them and punish them when they crossed the line.

 

[jaigner]

Texas prisons are full of young men and women whose parents did not care enough, or were too scared, to place limits on them and punish them when they crossed the line.

Yes, and parents need to be willing to discipline their children appropriately. They're also full of people who are caught in cycles of abuse. This man was not disciplining his daughter, he was abusing her. It's a crime, not discipline.

 

[jaigner]

You know jaigner, you can object to the behavior in the video (like I do) without being disagreeable and acting in a way that is unbecoming of a believer.

I understand if you think I was inappropriate with some of the things I said to FAL, but in my opinion, he needs to hear how damaging his words can be. If you want to say that was unbecoming of a believer, I can accept that. What I said to Gina was nothing of the sort.

I seriously just can't believe I'm hearing Christians say that these actions were anything less than criminal. The man is emotionally controlling of his wife and daughter, physically abusive toward the daughter, and people are defending it.

THIS IS NOT DISCIPLINE, IT'S ASSAULT.

If my parents had done this to me, I hope I would have had the sense to

 

[carpro]

This man was not disciplining his daughter, he was abusing her. It's a crime, not discipline.

In your opinion.

 

[jaigner]

In your opinion.

No, in pretty much any legal or psychological opinion. You can't just beat the crap out of your child. It is assault.

 

[carpro]

No, in pretty much any legal or psychological opinion. You can't just beat the crap out of your child. It is assault.

The legal question is unsettled and child psychologist are wrong so often that, if we followed their instructions, saying "no" is simply off limits: as is winning and losing at sports and passing or failing grades.

It's stiil just your opinion. I'm sure many people share it, but many people don't.

 

[Gina B]

jaigner, I don't understand it when people don't take surrounding circumstances into consideration. Apart from those circumstances, I'd totally agree this was criminal child abuse.
Add in the circumstances, and I don't agree that it was.

There's also the unknown factor. You claim you think he did this a lot. What evidence is there that he regularly did this or that he mistreated his wife? The wife herself, when you watch the longer version of the video, is agreeing with her husband in the beginning, the later in the video, comes in after the husband left and uses the belt on the girl too.

Why are you defending her when she took part in this? That isn't at all logical. Is this okay for a woman, but not a man? If your defense is that she was doing this in fear of him, why would you not think that perhaps he was doing it in fear of his wife? As long as one will draw conclusions from the unknown, why not go ahead and draw that one instead?

 

[Mexdeaf]

My dad and mom 'assaulted' me. I 'assaulted' my children. And my children are 'assaulting' my grandchildren. None of us are the worse for wear from it.
From what I see of many of the younger generation, they could use a little assault.

And it isn't assault at all if it is done lovingly and Biblically.

 

[matt wade]

My dad and mom 'assaulted' me. I 'assaulted' my children. And my children are 'assaulting' my grandchildren. None of us are the worse for wear from it.
From what I see of many of the younger generation, they could use a little assault.

And it isn't assault at all if it is done lovingly and Biblically.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that corporal punishment is something we shouldn't do. The guy in this news story and video was completely out of control however. He was using profanity the entire time, very emotional, threatening to strike his child in the face and head with a belt, and just out of control.

Corporal punishment is fine, when issued in love and with a level head. This guy wasn't doing anything out of love or with a level head.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I've watched it again trying defend the man since many here are defending him. I'm thinking "what am I missing"?

I believe in spanking and do spank children, myself. I spank very little, but I'm not hesitant to do so. And when I spank - it stings - on the bottom.

I'm trying to look at the video clinically and detached and asked myself if he was spanking his daughter.

• He's cursing his daughter.
• He's beating her, not spanking her.
• He's beating her in places that are not effective, but harmful - the face, the back, the legs.
• He's telling her that he will "beat her into submission".
• He's got his legs spread apart and his arm reared back as far as he can for maximum pain. The stance of his body reminds me of one man who is giving another man a "beat down". I've seen men fight each other before and his body language is of a fight.

I can see absolutely no defense in his actions at all. I would call it an abusive beating. If I were to "spank" a child like that, I would be arrested.

 

[Gina B]

Scarlett, I'm not holding this up as a wonderful way to confront a child.
With my now teenage daughters, I can't imagine spanking them at their age. When they were younger, as in little and doing dangerous things, ie reaching for the stove and things that could hurt them, I would slap the reaching hand ONCE and firmly say no. I did spank, but not with a belt, for outright telling me no, but always on the bottom and never more than a few swats. It was very rare.

But the mother...if you go find where the daughter posted this on youtube and ranted how she didn't have her car and her money, you'll see that the mother was also very involved. She appeared to fully participate, initiating the whole matter, used a belt herself, and also cussed at the child, refused to hand the belt to her husband and told him no straight out, appearing to want to use it herself, and at the end she viciously slams the door.

You can also hear him talking about how the issue of lying, stealing, and disobedience had been brewing for six months. The father states in the video that he'd been trying to stop it for that long and that this is what it came to. This sounds like parents who tried to put a stop to it for half a year and then snapped. BOTH of them. I don't buy that the mother was somehow coerced into it. I was in a marriage that wasn't so great once to a guy from another country. He wanted to discipline one of our kids by striking her on the bottom of the foot with a piece of wood when she disobeyed him once. I THINK NOT. As a mother, I'd move heaven and earth to protect my children from something I thought was abusive. And I have gone very far to keep them safe, healthy, and away from anyone who would have it in them to treat them in a way I thought was abusive. That's a parents JOB! Instead, she participated. If she truly thought it was abuse, there's no excuse for that and she's just as guilty as the husband both for participating and if it honestly had happened repeatedly in that matter, for not reporting a crime to the police.

It also strikes me as odd that the child quit crying the SECOND the parents walked out of the room. That tells me some of her reaction was for show. Deep, intense sobbing doesn't stop the second the parents aren't watching. Then the timing of the release...it all just strikes me as odd and that maybe this really wasn't something repeated. Looks more like a disgruntled young lady who got mad at being told to get a job and get her life together, that daddy wouldn't be giving more handouts if she wasn't going to work for her own living and her and mom came together to do this. She's railing against the dad and excusing the mom for the exact same behaviors. Something is very fishy about it all.

So while I wouldn't/couldn't do that to my own kids, and one did something a while back that made me have to walk away before I lost it...I can't sit in judgment. If my daughter would have repeated what she did wrong for six months in a row, I may have been frightened and angry enough to try to scare the behavior out of her for her own good as it was something that endangered her safety and well-being. But we talked it through and put some new rules in place.

Raising teens isn't always easy. I have this feeling that I've been very blessed with mine because I work with teens and have seen the worst of the worst. Maybe, just maybe as a judge, he's also seen it and knows where that type of behavior can lead. Anger is always based in fear, so my perception is that his anger had a firm base in fear over her well-being and fear that he was losing control in his own home and couldn't keep her safe from the road he'd seen others go down.

None of us know for sure though. I just think it's harsh to jump to the conclusion that this is a horrible, terrible father who abused his whole family all the time based on an obvious set-up video.

 

[jaigner]

My dad and mom 'assaulted' me. I 'assaulted' my children. And my children are 'assaulting' my grandchildren. None of us are the worse for wear from it.
From what I see of many of the younger generation, they could use a little assault.

And it isn't assault at all if it is done lovingly and Biblically.

I'm not equating "spanking" with "assaulting." I find it ridiculous that I have to even say that. I'm not necessarily against spanking, but a spanking is different from a beating.

 

[jaigner]

I've watched it again trying defend the man since many here are defending him. I'm thinking "what am I missing"?

I believe in spanking and do spank children, myself. I spank very little, but I'm not hesitant to do so. And when I spank - it stings - on the bottom.

I'm trying to look at the video clinically and detached and asked myself if he was spanking his daughter.

• He's cursing his daughter.
• He's beating her, not spanking her.
• He's beating her in places that are not effective, but harmful - the face, the back, the legs.
• He's telling her that he will "beat her into submission".
• He's got his legs spread apart and his arm reared back as far as he can for maximum pain. The stance of his body reminds me of one man who is giving another man a "beat down". I've seen men fight each other before and his body language is of a fight.

I can see absolutely no defense in his actions at all. I would call it an abusive beating. If I were to "spank" a child like that, I would be arrested.

YES!!! Thank you.

 

[jaigner]

It also strikes me as odd that the child quit crying the SECOND the parents walked out of the room. That tells me some of her reaction was for show. Deep, intense sobbing doesn't stop the second the parents aren't watching. Then the timing of the release...it all just strikes me as odd and that maybe this really wasn't something repeated.

Frankly, it doesn't matter if the tears were authentic, this was criminal.

So while I wouldn't/couldn't do that to my own kids, and one did something a while back that made me have to walk away before I lost it...I can't sit in judgment. If my daughter would have repeated what she did wrong for six months in a row, I may have been frightened and angry enough to try to scare the behavior out of her for her own good as it was something that endangered her safety and well-being. But we talked it through and put some new rules in place.

There but for the grace of God go any of us. Certainly all of us are capable, and if we do, we should face the consequences.

None of us know for sure though. I just think it's harsh to jump to the conclusion that this is a horrible, terrible father who abused his whole family all the time based on an obvious set-up video.

His ex-wife said he was brainwashing, controlling and abusive. Wives that are brainwashed will often go along with what the abuser says.