That is NOT what "Your body is a Temple" means!

[Benjamin]

I fail to see how when one defines gluttony (or over eating to the point of being overweight, if you will) as "worthless" that it would give any credit to his argument...because I could probably give 40 reasons why it is worthless.

Also, I think many of the diseases that go along with being oerweight could be considered pretty "vile".

BTW, 6' and 215 has a BMI which is classified as overweight and just under obese ( http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi_scr...=6&hti=0&wt=215&scale=english&submit_e=Submit ) another 5lbs and BINGO...yes, I did catch that you claim to be one buff dude with an extra 20 lbs of muscle on him but from my knowledge of the BMI and being accustomed to hearing those common excuses and many other supporting arguments (please, save the one about BMI not being accurate) presented within this tread I can't give that to much credit.

Don't have time to get into details and interpretations, so no need an answer. Just giving my two cents in passing.

 

[pinoybaptist]

The verse is not talking about taking care of the Physical health of the body. It is speaking of taking care of the Spiritual health of the body. So unless you can show in scripture where being unhealthy (physically) is sinful, that verse is not speaking to that.

How right you are. No need to argue it with me.

Yet, I remember a generation who fell for preachers quoting that very verse to justify the doctrine against smoking and drinking, even going to the cinema.
I was one of them.

Had a hard time with tobacco, liked a little beer here and there now and then, and the movies, oh, my, mine was the time of Bruce Lee and Al Pacino and the Godfather and Serpico and my brothers and sisters at church snubbed me for the smell of tobacco in my pocket and shirt and for catching me at times coming out of the moviehouse and so I thought, I have got to be UNSAVED, and I can't make myself saved, it's gotta be all by grace through faith, so I quit church and the Bible altogether and wondered how can my flesh be so much stronger than Christ ?

It took the power of God, unbeknownst to me, then, to keep me from heading back into the arms of Marx and Engels and the songs of the underground.

 

[Havensdad]

The very science you default to. Someone with a 40% bodyfat did not get there with a healthy lifestyle. Are there scientific exceptions? I guess it's plausible, but I've never seen it in the almost 20 years I have been involved in fitness.

Actually, a great example is my daughter. She is not morbidly obese, but she weighs about 200 pounds, and is 5 foot 8. She has a thyroid problem, for which she is now taking medication. The Dr. told us that more than 50 percent of those who have severe weight problems, have contributing medical conditions; it is almost NEVER simply "overeating."

There was no jab whatsoever, don't be so defensive. I was saying you know what the Bible says on drunkenness, please read more carefully.

It sure sounded snippy. My apologies.

What do you know...you just admitted overindulgence, what gluttony IS!

No I didn't. Being inconsiderate of your brother is not gluttony. So we can eat all we want, as long as we do it at home?

This answer could be found under strawman in the encyclopedia. Nobody ever said we are commanded to be a certain weight or exercise. We ARE commanded to be good stewards of ALL God has given us INCLUDING our bodies. I can't believe you are arguing against that!

Because restricting your diet has nothing to do with stewardship. Every little nuance of life that is not lived perfectly, is not bad stewardship.

CERTAINLY a pastor, who is overweight because he spends all of his time in his study, reading and meditating on the word of God, is NOT being a bad steward! What a bizarre position to have!

People have body types commensurate with their lifestyle. Living according to ones lifestyle, is not bad stewardship.

Another strawman. I NEVER said it was about eating right and staying in shape, you did. It IS about stewardship, gifts being included in that principle.
Of course not All it talks about is stewardship :BangHead:

And working out and eating right, is completely unrelated to stewardship.

What are the greek words for glutton, gluttony found in the NT and meanings?
The Scripture you posted has nothing to do with me arguing your position on this thread, what you tried to twist it into. It is about "works" of the law.

It is speaking about people adding legalistic requirements, that go AGAINST what God actually teaches. These people are saying "don't eat" when God has said "eat all you want."

Christianity is about the Gospel?!? REally?!? (end sarcasm) It's also about obedience to His Word, which DOES teach us to be good stewards of what He has given us.

Yep. So as long as we are giving our money, and using our talents for what God has commanded, we can eat whatever we wish, and we can exercise as much, or as little as we wish. Exercise and diet have nothing to do with stewardship.

I believe the one arguing for over indulgence and to throw stewardship down the toilet is the one who needs to rethink their position.

Not saying anything about stewardship. I am saying the same thing our Lord has commanded, countless times in the scriptures. Again and again, His people are commanded to feast, and EVEN to eat as much as they want. A couple of examples will suffice.

Exo 16:16 This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Gather of it, each one of you, as much as he can eat.

Deu 12:15 "However, you may slaughter and eat meat within any of your towns, as much as you desire, according to the blessing of the LORD your God that he has given you.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

Not to derail the thread but I want to ask the “healthy” crowd a question.

The weight loss industry is huge. Turn on a television and you are bombarded with weight loss geniuses who will promise you a smaller you for a small price.

Now I would love to loose weight and have fallen for several of these weight loss plans over the years. I have done Nutri system and Jenny Craig. I have bought the pills and shakes. I am overweight. I am less than 6’ and weight 275 lbs. I was an athlete in my younger days and still live a very active lifestyle. I still hike and mountain bike. I don’t run anymore, but I can still do 15 miles on foot or 30 on a bike and call it a good day. I still play basketball and softball. My cholesterol and blood sugar and blood pressure are all in the “good” ranges.

My question for those who would judge me is why do you want me to loose weight? Or why do you want to loose weight yourself? Will it as others have implied “Bring glory to God?” Or is it to bring glory to yourself? Do you want to be thin for your own pride or sex appeal? Back to the TV advertising, most weight loss seems to be about sex.

The truth is I am very comfortable and happy with my body despite my BMI index and disapproving looks from time to time. I actually enjoy the sneers I get at the bike park when the little guys see me unloading my bike, knowing I will be blowing by them in a few miles. And if they do manage to keep up with me, I don’t care; I know I am having fun.

When I look at myself in the mirror and say, “I wish I could loose some weight,” I also ask why. If it is only to please those who would judge me on how I look then forget it. I have managed my weight in the past and it just was not worth the effort. When I was in the military I got under the weight limit and stayed there, but I was miserable.

Thanks but no thanks, I’ll just stay me.

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

OK, one more question. I Tim 4:1-5 says:

[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
[3] Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
[4] For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
[5] For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Verse three of course gives us both “Forbidding to marry,” and “abstaining from meats” as signs of those who have departed from the faith. Now I remember the old Baptists who would use these verses specifically against the Roman Catholic ideas of celibacy for priests and meatless Fridays, but does the same principle apply here? Would those who tell us not to eat pork or advocate vegetarianism also fit in this category of departing from the faith? What about those who simply advocate a "healthier" lifestyle?

I am not questioning anyone’s salvation, just asking?

 

[Dauntie27]

O.K., let me give you some background, so you don't think I am trying to justify myself. I work out every day. I lift weights, run/walk (am up to 2 miles), etc. I am 215 pounds, 6 feet tall, and have a 33 inch waist. All that to say, I am NOT overweight.

Also: I eat relatively healthy. I like vegetables. I like fruit, and orange juice, and even things like spinach and cabbage.

But: I am SICK of people using various verses, completely out of context, to try to prove that the Bible mandates physical fitness. It doesn't. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says anything about being overweight, or not exercising, is sinful. Its not.

And it makes me SICK when people try to equate not staying in shape, to adultery, drug use, overindulgence in alcohol, etc. Those things are sinful. Being overweight, and not exercising, is not.

Now, some try to say "But your Body is a 'temple'!" Listen to me; That verse has NOTHING to do with exercising or "eating right." It is talking about not using your body for things the Bible says is sinful; do not use it for adultery, or lying, or killing, or stealing. It is not telling you to start an exercise plan!

What food does the Bible say is the best parts? Why, the FAT portions; the fattiest, greasiest, most unhealthy parts of the animals, are considered blessings in scripture, not "sinful."

The Bible is not about physical exercise; NOTHING about it. It is about saving souls. Staying in shape is spiritually neutral. It is like stamp collecting, or building model cars. It is fine if you do, and fine if you don't.

1 Corinthians 10:31-"Whether therefore ye eat or drink or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."
Because our body that our soul dwells in is the way that we serve our God, I think it says a lot about out our habits.

Yes, Romans 12:1-"I beseech thee therefore brethren, by the mercies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service" does not mean that you have to be skinny or in great shape outwardly to serve him. However, from the other thread regarding pastors, it's hard to listen to a sermon on sin when it is obvious that an overweight pastor has a little issue himself.
Proverbs 23:2-"and put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony."
(Trust me, I could use to loose some weight myself so I'm not in the habit of judging, but I have a pet peeve of trying to cover sinful habits making excuse for them...confess your faults so one can pray for you and you can be set free!)

 

[InTheLight]

Not to derail the thread but I want to ask the “healthy” crowd a question.

Why do you want to loose weight yourself? Will it as others have implied “Bring glory to God?” Or is it to bring glory to yourself? Do you want to be thin for your own pride or sex appeal?

I'm 6' 3" and weigh 220 lbs. I used to work out when I was in my 20's and 30's and am still active, at least in the spring/summer/fall. It's tough to be active in the winter in Minnesota. In mid-summer I will weigh 210. When I graduated from high school I was 6' 3" and 195 lbs.

I want to lose 15-20 lbs. to help lower my blood pressure which is borderline high. Doesn't have anything to do with glory to God, myself, sex appeal or pride. It's simple desire to live longer and see my kids grow up and have kids.

As to the overweight issue, I'm guessing a very obese person's witness would not go over well with unsaved people. It's not fair, I know, but that's probably the way it is.

 

[Alive in Christ]

I dont know who originally said this...

"Science does not lie"

...but they have been duped royally.

SCIENCE is actually telling the world that bugs turned into fish,and fish, turned into birds, and birds turned into horses and horses turned into chimps, and chimps turned into human beings.

(((((Science doesnt lie???)))))

 

[Havensdad]

I dont know who originally said this...





...but they have been duped royally.

SCIENCE is actually telling the world that bugs turned into fish,and fish, turned into birds, and birds turned into horses and horses turned into chimps, and chimps turned into human beings.

(((((Science doesnt lie???)))))

Do not make the mistake of confusing science with evolutionary religion. Evolution fails the test of science. In order for evolution to be science, you would be required to run tests, "evolving" single cell organisms into a human, through these "stages." This has not been done: that is religion.

But no, SCIENCE, TRUE science, does not lie. True science that has actually done testable, repeatable tests. That can demonstrate exactly how something works. This true science does not lie, for it is based on the laws of nature and physics which God Himself has instituted.

 

[Havensdad]

1 Corinthians 10:31-"Whether therefore ye eat or drink or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."
Because our body that our soul dwells in is the way that we serve our God, I think it says a lot about out our habits.

Yes, Romans 12:1-"I beseech thee therefore brethren, by the mercies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service" does not mean that you have to be skinny or in great shape outwardly to serve him. However, from the other thread regarding pastors, it's hard to listen to a sermon on sin when it is obvious that an overweight pastor has a little issue himself.
Proverbs 23:2-"and put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony."
(Trust me, I could use to loose some weight myself so I'm not in the habit of judging, but I have a pet peeve of trying to cover sinful habits making excuse for them...confess your faults so one can pray for you and you can be set free!)

You HONESTLY think that a pastor who is overweight because He is constantly studying God's word is sinning? You have GOT to be kidding me!


Proverbs 23:2 is not talking about gluttony. That verse is speaking of deception: which is why some translations render it "“indulgence at such a time may endanger thy very life.”

What do you do with these verses:


Exo 16:16 This is what the LORD has commanded: 'Gather of it, each one of you, as much as he can eat.

Deu 12:15 "However, you may slaughter and eat meat within any of your towns, as much as you desire, according to the blessing of the LORD your God that he has given you.

Note that neither of these were "special occasions," but commands for everyday living. That is, God commanded them to let these be the normal way of living.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Not to derail the thread but I want to ask the “healthy” crowd a question.

The weight loss industry is huge. Turn on a television and you are bombarded with weight loss geniuses who will promise you a smaller you for a small price.

Now I would love to loose weight and have fallen for several of these weight loss plans over the years. I have done Nutri system and Jenny Craig. I have bought the pills and shakes. I am overweight. I am less than 6’ and weight 275 lbs. I was an athlete in my younger days and still live a very active lifestyle. I still hike and mountain bike. I don’t run anymore, but I can still do 15 miles on foot or 30 on a bike and call it a good day. I still play basketball and softball. My cholesterol and blood sugar and blood pressure are all in the “good” ranges.

My question for those who would judge me is why do you want me to loose weight? Or why do you want to loose weight yourself? Will it as others have implied “Bring glory to God?” Or is it to bring glory to yourself? Do you want to be thin for your own pride or sex appeal? Back to the TV advertising, most weight loss seems to be about sex.

The truth is I am very comfortable and happy with my body despite my BMI index and disapproving looks from time to time. I actually enjoy the sneers I get at the bike park when the little guys see me unloading my bike, knowing I will be blowing by them in a few miles. And if they do manage to keep up with me, I don’t care; I know I am having fun.

When I look at myself in the mirror and say, “I wish I could loose some weight,” I also ask why. If it is only to please those who would judge me on how I look then forget it. I have managed my weight in the past and it just was not worth the effort. When I was in the military I got under the weight limit and stayed there, but I was miserable.

Thanks but no thanks, I’ll just stay me.

Good Post, growing up I was always "husky", in my high school and early 20's I was able to control my weight some by staying active. Since I've been married I've gained almost 50 pounds. Its a combination of working in an office, not playing basketball once or twice a week like I used to when single, a wife that is a great cook, and a busy lifestyle where I sometimes have to grab a quick bite of fast food. Having put on this weight I do feel like others judge me, to me its a bit humbling, and it helps me look at my own motives and how I am wrong to judge others about their appearance. In a way its helped me see my self worth is in what God thinks of me (adopted through Christ), not others.

On a side note, I joke with people sometimes that I like to eat every meal as it might be my last. You never know when you'll get stuck in a sudden snowstorm. Skinny people wouldn't survive, but I'd be set for several days until they could dig me out.

Seriously though, as with many things in life its about balance.

 

[Amy.G]

My husband is 6'2", 275 lbs and is over the max bmi to qualify for private health ins. He is very muscular and can out work everyone he's worked with who is half his age. He'll be 55 next month. He just walked 4 miles this afternoon. His cholesterol and blood pressure are normal. The only medication he takes is an anti-depressant.

I on the other hand have a normal bmi, but have had high cholesterol for years and also high blood pressure and low potassium levels. I have been on meds for about 10 years, but am able to get health insurance. Go figure.

I figure I'll drop dead long before him, but by society's standards I'm healthier because I'm thinner. :BangHead:

 

[Allan]

My husband is 6'2", 275 lbs and is over the max bmi to qualify for private health ins. He is very muscular and can out work everyone he's worked with who is half his age. He'll be 55 next month. He just walked 4 miles this afternoon. His cholesterol and blood pressure are normal. The only medication he takes is an anti-depressant.

I on the other hand have a normal bmi, but have had high cholesterol for years and also high blood pressure and low potassium levels. I have been on meds for about 10 years, but am able to get health insurance. Go figure.

I figure I'll drop dead long before him, but by society's standards I'm healthier because I'm thinner. :BangHead:

Ouch.. sad but true.

 

[Benjamin]

I would say it’s not about judging, it’s about love, and maybe a need for some to take a stand of tough love. Unfortunately, tough love often gets answered back with these types of accusations because those to whom that love is directed get their pride offended. It has become taboo in this country to even suggest that being overweight is not good. Yet, the facts are there and being overweight is the leading cause of premature death and illness in this country. People get into bad habits, are unwilling to make the healthy lifestyle changes needed to be healthy and will lash out at anyone who calls attention to the FACTS. They make claims about how healthy they or other overweight people are but the statistics say otherwise.

So if one dies sooner than they should and leaves their loved ones behind prematurely where is the love in that. I see love in action and whole heartedly see the point and agree with one poster here who said he works on keeping his weight down to be there for his grandkids. That’s true love, that’s action, that is the kind of action that I believe glorifies God because He is Love.

I just finished watching a video for a school project about a smoker who is suffering from emphysema and is smoking in the video while expressing the sorrow about her unhealthy life and finishes by saying “no one can make me quit but me”. I had to comment on this video and this is part of what I said I said:

Teri knows all too well the reasons she should quit and wants to convince herself so bad that she makes a video discussing the devastating effects it has had on her life. Yet, she smokes even while making the video. It goes to show just how addictive nicotine is, but not only that but how one can give up on a better life. She says “no one can make me quit but me” and that has a ring of truth.

The answer is somewhere within loving oneself and those who care about them enough to take the action needed and to tough it out for that rewarding and positive result (a better quality of life). As with all bad habits and tough life situations, the sooner one contends with the issues behind it the sooner they can start enjoying the benefits of the changes they are able to make.

If I could, I would pray with Teri and share with her my thought to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are better than the person you are seeing, and are you worth it? If the answer is “yes” then start doing something about and being all you can be. Put the values and joys of a healthier and happier life in front of the evils that are trying to destroy you and which lie to you telling you that you can’t. True love, whether it is for oneself or another is seen in action, not mere words. So Teri is right, loving herself can’t be forced on her, true love can not be forced, it is a free choice.

As for the epidemic of obesity, I’ve seen the lives of those needlessly ruined by it again and again. My own sister in a wheel chair at 50 because her body couldn’t tolerate being 100 lbs overweight at 5 foot tall. I’ve been studying the pathology of human diseases for the last several months as I learn to be a Physical Therapist and the majority of these diseases are directly related to being overweight. A big part of my job will be treating people who have worn out their joints because of it or working to get people moving again who have become unhealthy because of inactivity due to it.

My motive is because of love for others and not wanting to see them to needlessly suffer from these poor lifestyle choices which devastate one’s health. People make all kinds of excuses and claims but I see the results first hand and know the cause. We have people here making silly claims/excuses like their doctor said 50% of this condition is not due to overeating…boloney! My professors are all doctors and would laugh at that ignorance. Where was this percentage 50 years ago, for Pete’s sake! I doubt even 1 in a 1000 wouldn’t become a normal weight if I were to have control over what they ate and had them on an exercise program and I had that chance it ain't gunna be because I want them to be sexy.

I’m not going to continue arguing it because I prefer to have this discussion one on one and face to face, but I will tell those defending the lifestyle that they are engaged in unconsciously arguing to defend this society’s misguided values which make it taboo to address the roots of this growing unhealthful problem and I don’t see the love in this but only foolish and selfish pride saying “Don’t tell ME I need to adopt a healthier life!”

 

[Crabtownboy]

I on the other hand have a normal bmi, but have had high cholesterol for years and also high blood pressure and low potassium levels. I have been on meds for about 10 years, but am able to get health insurance. Go figure.

As long as the meds keep your cholesterol and blood pressure under control you should be fine.

About the low potassium, this may come from the blood pressure meds. Some are potassium depleting. Be sure to drink your orange juice and eat a banana every day. Both are high in potassium. My dad died of a heart attack brought on by low potassium from his blood pressure meds. :wavey:

 

[webdog]

I would say it’s not about judging, it’s about love, and maybe a need for some to take a stand of tough love. Unfortunately, tough love often gets answered back with these types of accusations because those to whom that love is directed get their pride offended. It has become taboo in this country to even suggest that being overweight is not good. Yet, the facts are there and being overweight is the leading cause of premature death and illness in this country. People get into bad habits, are unwilling to make the healthy lifestyle changes needed to be healthy and will lash out at anyone who calls attention to the FACTS. They make claims about how healthy they or other overweight people are but the statistics say otherwise.

So if one dies sooner than they should and leaves their loved ones behind prematurely where is the love in that. I see love in action and whole heartedly see the point and agree with one poster here who said he works on keeping his weight down to be there for his grandkids. That’s true love, that’s action, that is the kind of action that I believe glorifies God because He is Love.

I just finished watching a video for a school project about a smoker who is suffering from emphysema and is smoking in the video while expressing the sorrow about her unhealthy life and finishes by saying “no one can make me quit but me”. I had to comment on this video and this is part of what I said I said:

As for the epidemic of obesity, I’ve seen the lives of those needlessly ruined by it again and again. My own sister in a wheel chair at 50 because her body couldn’t tolerate being 100 lbs overweight at 5 foot tall. I’ve been studying the pathology of human diseases for the last several months as I learn to be a Physical Therapist and the majority of these diseases are directly related to being overweight. A big part of my job will be treating people who have worn out their joints because of it or working to get people moving again who have become unhealthy because of inactivity due to it.

My motive is because of love for others and not wanting to see them to needlessly suffer from these poor lifestyle choices which devastate one’s health. People make all kinds of excuses and claims but I see the results first hand and know the cause. We have people here making silly claims/excuses like their doctor said 50% of this condition is not due to overeating…boloney! My professors are all doctors and would laugh at that ignorance. Where was this percentage 50 years ago, for Pete’s sake! I doubt even 1 in a 1000 wouldn’t become a normal weight if I were to have control over what they ate and had them on an exercise program and I had that chance it ain't gunna be because I want them to be sexy.

I’m not going to continue arguing it because I prefer to have this discussion one on one and face to face, but I will tell those defending the lifestyle that they are engaged in unconsciously arguing to defend this society’s misguided values which make it taboo to address the roots of this growing unhealthful problem and I don’t see the love in this but only foolish and selfish pride saying “Don’t tell ME I need to adopt a healthier life!”

Excellent post! Obesity related diseases are the #1 cause of death. That is a fact. While there are some cases of metabolic issues (my mother is obese and has such a metabolism. She once ate nothing but salad and chicken for a week and gained 3 lbs), the majority are lifestyle choices.

 

[mandym]

Coronary disease is the number on cause of death and there are a number of contributing factors for that. Obesity does not cause a heart attack. Clogged arteries, weak heart muscles, second hand smoke are all causes. One can be at their exact weight according to the doctors weight scale and still have a heart attack from any of the above. But none of this addresses the op.

 

[webdog]

Coronary disease is the number on cause of death and there are a number of contributing factors for that. Obesity does not cause a heart attack. Clogged arteries, weak heart muscles, second hand smoke are all causes. One can be at their exact weight according to the doctors weight scale and still have a heart attack from any of the above. But none of this addresses the op.

We are not addressing the exceptions, as was already pointed out. Of course there will always be exceptions. The majority are due to lifestyle choices. Obesity shortens more lives than smoking does.

I believe this does relate to the op as gluttony is overindulgence of anything including eating and drinking...a primary factor in obesity.

 

[mandym]

We are not addressing the exceptions, as was already pointed out. Of course there will always be exceptions. The majority are due to lifestyle choices. Obesity shortens more lives than smoking does.

I believe this does relate to the op as gluttony is overindulgence of anything including eating and drinking...a primary factor in obesity.

According to the CDC the number one killer of Americans is heart related disease not obesity. And weight is not the issue with this as I explained.

 

[webdog]

According to the CDC the number one killer of Americans is heart related disease not obesity. And weight is not the issue with this as I explained.

Obesity is the number one cause of preventable death in America as of 2004 overtaking tobacco, which includes heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.

You cannot tell me gluttony is not a, if not "the" major cause of this.