Ahhh,shoulda caught that! :tonofbricks:
Thanks again.
No problem, I'm glad you took the time to check it out.
HankD
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
That is NOT what "Your body is a Temple" means!
- Thread starter Havensdad
- Start date
No problem, I'm glad you took the time to check it out.
HankD
Jeremiah 2:36 Why gaddest thou about so much to change thy way? thou also shalt be ashamed of Egypt, as thou wast ashamed of Assyria.
Frankly, I don’t really understand the depth of the Hebrew language translations at all. But I can, in a layman’s view, see how the verse translates through the concordance in meaning to something like: Why do you “gladdest” -(fail, disappear, go to and fro between) about so much -(so vehemently, speedily, intensely) to change (alter, double, pervert, repeat, “so quick to have seconds”
) in your "way"? -(mode of action; custom, manner, or journey of the course of life) …could all add up to and does well define the word, “gluttony”. And then continue on concerning that meaning that one should be “ashamed” of that type of behavior. So, it does make sense to me in the way that I can dig out the meaning. :tonofbricks:
Jeremiah 2:36 Why gaddest thou about so much to change thy way? thou also shalt be ashamed of Egypt, as thou wast ashamed of Assyria.
Frankly, I don’t really understand the depth of the Hebrew language translations at all. But I can, in a layman’s view, see how the verse translates through the concordance in meaning to something like: Why do you “gladdest” -(fail, disappear, go to and fro between) about so much -(so vehemently, speedily, intensely) to change (alter, double, pervert, repeat, “so quick to have seconds”
Perhaps with the meaning: Why did you vascilate (morally) so profoundly?
They were primarily supposed to be a people of prayer and fasting.
HankD
Last edited:
Lets get back to the OP. This thread was not really addressing gluttony, but the particular verse that is ripped out of context.
Lets set up a scenario. If a person eats at McDonalds, Jack in the Box, etc., due to the fact that it is cheap, convenient, and they live an "on the go" lifestyle, three meals a day....
Breakfast: A Hashbrown, Sausage Biscuit, and an orange juice 800 calories
Lunch: A Double Cheeseburger, Medium fries, and diet coke 850 calories
Dinner: A Spicy Chicken Sandwich Onion rings, and again a diet coke 1000 calories
Now, I don't think anyone could call that diet "gluttony." It is not overeating, in terms of quantity, by ANY means (sausage biscuits and Double cheeseburgers from McD's are rather small). Nor is the person eating there primarily for the food, but because it is cheap and convenient. So there is NO way this could be called "gluttony."
Yet the average person, who works a non-active job, would get quite overweight eating such a diet. My point is there is NOTHING sinful about...
#1 Not exercising
#2 Being Overweight
#3 Eating excessively fatty and unhealthy foods
None of those things are condemned as sinful by the scriptures, and I am tired of people twisting verses to make the Bible into a book about physical fitness.
Lets set up a scenario. If a person eats at McDonalds, Jack in the Box, etc., due to the fact that it is cheap, convenient, and they live an "on the go" lifestyle, three meals a day....
Breakfast: A Hashbrown, Sausage Biscuit, and an orange juice 800 calories
Lunch: A Double Cheeseburger, Medium fries, and diet coke 850 calories
Dinner: A Spicy Chicken Sandwich Onion rings, and again a diet coke 1000 calories
Now, I don't think anyone could call that diet "gluttony." It is not overeating, in terms of quantity, by ANY means (sausage biscuits and Double cheeseburgers from McD's are rather small). Nor is the person eating there primarily for the food, but because it is cheap and convenient. So there is NO way this could be called "gluttony."
Yet the average person, who works a non-active job, would get quite overweight eating such a diet. My point is there is NOTHING sinful about...
#1 Not exercising
#2 Being Overweight
#3 Eating excessively fatty and unhealthy foods
None of those things are condemned as sinful by the scriptures, and I am tired of people twisting verses to make the Bible into a book about physical fitness.
In this case they were turning their backs on the Lord except in times of trouble, thinking of themselves as lords, being cruel to innocents, and openly doing this and while justifying themselves in their actions. Seems we are being told they were quick to take advantage of prosperous times, they had been brought into a plentiful country and perverted that which could be good into something else, they greedily abused the good things they had. V36 seems to be asking them why they are so quick to abuse these plentiful things, change it into ways that do not profit, and trimming love out of the picture. Well, in a moral comparison it is easy for us to take an attitude and start abusing the things which are plentiful to us while thinking who cares if we flaunt our “abundance” in public (v2:34), abuse of food is simply another example of this type of attitude; one of privilege and thereby gluttony while saying we have done no wrong/harm in this act.
Last edited by a moderator:
I believe you are correct Ben, the operative word is complacency and not so much it's manifestation in a particular moral failure (sin) such as greed or gluttony.
There is nothing wrong with affluence.
In fact abundance is a gift from God and an opportunity to do well to others.
Jesus said "seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness" not "seek ye only the kingdom of God".
Complacency forgets the source of blessing.
Revelation 3
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
HankD
I would say a person eating the McDonalds diet you outlined is not committing gluttony.
However, it seems to me that if a person, no matter what they eat, is grossly overweight, they are eating too much food. By definition (metabolism issue aside) their body doesn't need that many calories. It's unhealthy. It's overindulgence and being a bad steward of your body. Therefore, setting aside the issue of gluttony, the questions really are:
Is it a sin to be a bad steward of your body?
Is overindulgence a sin?
I think these are the issues that Webdog is addressing. I don't think they are addressed in the verse cited by the Havensdad. Is there other scripture that addresses overindulgence and stewardship of the body?
First, for it to be "bad stewardship," you would have to show that not being in what society calls "good shape" is bad stewardship, biblically. One could just as well make the argument that a person spending an hour in the gym everyday was being a bad steward of his time, since he could be using that time for studying the scriptures. Is not being a "good steward," simply using your time and talents for what is MOST valuable?
Second, Biblically "overindulgence" has nothing to do with modern ideas like BMI, or calorie count. It has to do with stuffing yourself with food, constantly. In other words, it is about the AMOUNT of food, not the "healthiness" of the food. The above list, which would cause someone to grow obese, is not overindulgence.
Perhaps not a sin in and of itself but an indication that something else is going on (lack of wisdom?). Even to the extent that in our culture we eat overly processed foods, a diet with an imbalance between protein and carbohydrates, lack of essential vitamins and minerals (which have been largely processed out of refined foods)... etc.
When we consume highly refined foods (components: refined white sugar, refined white flour, embalmed white milk...) the body naturally craves more food volume (adding calories) to compensate for the missing vitamins and minerals.
It certainly doesn't hurt to eat right, take supplements, not overeat, etc.
HankD
I agree with this. Even though something may be permissable, it is not always beneficial, as the scripture says. We should strive to do what is beneficial, (for others and for ourselves), not just what is allowable. It reminds me of the kid who leaves his toys out in the rain all the time. It's a careless treatment of the things we are given, imo.
I agree also that the verse in the OP is used entirely out of context very often.
Blessings!
After reading you, I’m thinking…that there is a more gentle way to argue that biblical principles support taking care of one’s physical body which would probably be more productive than throwing out the offensive ‘G’ word. Yup, a better "G" word to use would be, “gentleness”, a fruit of the spirit which goes hand in hand with the task of preaching about “self control” (Gal 5:23)…
(Galatians 5:23) gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
…or might even discuss that although lawful, “all” things are not profitable and people should not should be enslaved to a poor diet which is causing an unhealthful condition; moderation is called for in these types of things (1Cor 6:12):
(1 Corinthians 6:12) All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
…and of course the blessings of better physical health that will not come from having a complacent attitude towards unhealthful lifestyles.
Thanks Hank
Sure, and it has a better result than strife:
Proverbs 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
HankD
HankD
It has nothing to do with what society says, it has to do with knowing what's bad for you. If you lack wisdom, the Bible says to ask for it. Is failing to do what the Bible says a sin?
No, since we are not commanded in Scripture to do nothing but study Scripture.
Partially, yes. If we are told to be good stewards of what we are given, and do not obey God in doing this, is that a sin?
That's contradictory as stuffing yourself with food includes caloric count and BMI. At any rate I'm glad to see you are softening your stance from your Red Lobster example
Yes and no. If you know something is not good for you and if you continue to eat it you will develop hypertension, diabetes and premature death...and you continue to eat this with such knowledge...doesn't that violate the principle of stewardship?
In food "items"...no. In calories, fats, sodium, carbs...yes.