Actually, I'd say it's because we sit on our behinds. When I was growing up, everyone drank whole milk, ate fried everything and never counted calories. But we were always moving and doing things. That was the difference IMO. I don't remember any fat kids at school.
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That is NOT what "Your body is a Temple" means!
- Thread starter Havensdad
- Start date
Oh, I agree that is a major factor, but even in fitness and bodybuilding, 80% of results are due to diet and not the exercise. Pro bodybuilders spend little time in the gym, but the majority of their time planning meals (frequency, counting calories, supplementation, hydration, etc.)
Thousand Hills
Active Member
Doesn't matter what my BMI is, I won't be on this earth one day longer than the Lord wants me to. Is this fatalism, no, our decisions do matter in this life, but I don't think constantly worrying about fitting society's mold of perfect health is what God would have us to do.
From a study Iconoclast posted in another thread: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=70446
God Ordains the Days of Our Lives Again, the sovereign Lord of heaven and earth completely controls worlds, nations, calamities, individuals, even sinful actions. Does it surprise us that all the days of our lives "were ordained" (Psa 139:16)? God wrote the script to our lives, from birth to death. Though we do not know what the future will hold, we should reflect on this in reverence and obey His revealed will, His law. Ultimately, God has decreed what will come to pass, even to the minutest detail. Because of this, the Word tells us that our plans should be guided by this truth, "If the Lord wills..." (Jam 4:15). This is illustrated when Paul left Ephesus. He said, "I will return to you again if God wills" (Act 18:21). The Latin phrase which translates "if God wills" is Deo volente. So, it is right to plan and we can hardly avoid it, but we must remember all we intend is Deo volente.
Psa 22:9 Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. 10 Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb.
Psa 71:6 By Thee I have been sustained from my birth; Thou art He who took me from my mother's womb; my praise is continually of Thee.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Thy book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.
Num 24:23 And he took up his discourse and said, "Alas, who can live except God has ordained it?"
Pro 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, how then can man understand his way?
Job 14:1 Man, who is born of woman, Is short-lived and full of turmoil. 2 Like a flower he comes forth and withers. He also flees like a shadow and does not remain. 3 Thou also dost open Thine eyes on him, and bring him into judgment with Thyself. 4 Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! 5 since his days are determined, the number of his months is with Thee, and his limits Thou hast set so that he cannot pass.
Jam 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow, we shall go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." 14 Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. 15 Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and also do this or that."
From a study Iconoclast posted in another thread: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=70446
God Ordains the Days of Our Lives Again, the sovereign Lord of heaven and earth completely controls worlds, nations, calamities, individuals, even sinful actions. Does it surprise us that all the days of our lives "were ordained" (Psa 139:16)? God wrote the script to our lives, from birth to death. Though we do not know what the future will hold, we should reflect on this in reverence and obey His revealed will, His law. Ultimately, God has decreed what will come to pass, even to the minutest detail. Because of this, the Word tells us that our plans should be guided by this truth, "If the Lord wills..." (Jam 4:15). This is illustrated when Paul left Ephesus. He said, "I will return to you again if God wills" (Act 18:21). The Latin phrase which translates "if God wills" is Deo volente. So, it is right to plan and we can hardly avoid it, but we must remember all we intend is Deo volente.
Psa 22:9 Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. 10 Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb.
Psa 71:6 By Thee I have been sustained from my birth; Thou art He who took me from my mother's womb; my praise is continually of Thee.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Thy book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.
Num 24:23 And he took up his discourse and said, "Alas, who can live except God has ordained it?"
Pro 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, how then can man understand his way?
Job 14:1 Man, who is born of woman, Is short-lived and full of turmoil. 2 Like a flower he comes forth and withers. He also flees like a shadow and does not remain. 3 Thou also dost open Thine eyes on him, and bring him into judgment with Thyself. 4 Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! 5 since his days are determined, the number of his months is with Thee, and his limits Thou hast set so that he cannot pass.
Jam 4:13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow, we shall go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." 14 Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. 15 Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and also do this or that."
This thread is not about fitting society's mold. It is about gluttony. The OP says it is ok to gorge yourself with as much food as you want to and is permissible using the OT Hebrew word for gluttony meaning "vile" (while dismissing the Greek and English definitions). If overindulgence in anything is not vile, not sure what is.
Drunkeness is a form of gluttony. Drinking alcohol is permissible, but drunkenness is not. This same principle applies to food, sex, money, etc.
Thousand Hills
Active Member
Disagree, I've re-read the posts by the OP and I don't think he says anywhere that it is ok to gorge yourself with as much food as you want too. For you one trip through the buffet line may be gluttony, for me three trips through would be glutonny. But those who have a different opinion than you shouldn't be criminalized, and although you won't admit it, society does criminalize the overweight.
I think the OP is about not spiritualizing health, and that the Bible is neutral about it. We should be about the Father's business, whether at the gym or the fast food joint. I'll live my life by God's word, not what a researcher or college professor at a liberal university has to say.
"stuffing yourself at Red Lobster is not gluttony."
I agree. Same principle applies in consuming alcohol.
Actually, the majority of Americans are overweight, so this perceived criminalization is quite false. The media may allude to this fact, but it is not so. You can tell by many of the answers on this very thread it is not the truth.
The OP did not take into context the passage of Scripture. It was in regards to sexual sin, which is a physical issue. We are not to use our bodies in unrighteousness, and gluttony is also part or that...yet the OP directly dismisses this concept.
Who cares? Christianity is not about trying to live as long as you possibly can.
In some countries, denying Christ is the quickest way to a long, "happy" life.
There is simply no denying the fact that the Bible explicitly allows people to eat however they want, and it further says that physical exercise is of "little value."
Physical exercise and dieting are not Biblical principles, and should not be marketed as such, by twisting scripture.
And NO, the verse in the OP has nothing to do with your "physical body" in any way other than sin. The verse in question would just as much deal with not fantasizing about sinful things; but it would have NOTHING to do with physical activities that are not sinful (eating), nor with commanding things that are nowhere commanded in scripture (exercising).
Of all the people to be pushing this legalism, I never thought it would be you; although, as I said, I understand you have a vested interest.
Thousand Hills
Active Member
Who said it was?
Irrelevant.
This is where you are wrong. The Bible does NOT allow you to eat however you want...gluttony is a sin. Eating something that offends another is a sin...proving you are wrong.
They are included in the biblical principle of stewardship. You twist the Scripture by denying stewardship and denying gluttony.
Sexual sin is not a physical act?!? Who was Paul addressing...and about what?
How rich. I'm the least legalistic person I know. Scripture addresses gluttony and stewardship, and you are flat out denying and redefining both. Of all the people to be pushing liberalism, I never thought it would be you.
What the heck does that have to do with anything besides gossiping about someone on a random thread? Not to mention you have the exact post on 5 different threads.
This was reported. After you are banned from the BB, maybe you should have been known as Trollgiver.
This was reported. After you are banned from the BB, maybe you should have been known as Trollgiver.
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TruthGiver
New Member
President Webdog,
These are just a couple of the reponses I have recieved privatly.
(1)Truthgiver,
(2)Thank YOU SO much for this information.
Truly,
Truth Giver
[post edited for gossip and personal attacks]
These are just a couple of the reponses I have recieved privatly.
(1)Truthgiver,
(2)Thank YOU SO much for this information.
Truly,
Truth Giver
[post edited for gossip and personal attacks]
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Zalal is a Hebrew word which has a dual meaning.
In that respect Hebrew is similar to English, a language with homonyms.
e.g. The English word “light”. As opposed to “darkness”.
However it has a homonym “light” as opposed to “heavy”.
Zalal can mean (1) “to shake, quake” or (2) the homonym is used in the sense of moral weakness or even depravation.
In that sense it is difficult to define with a single English word e.g. “overindulgence”.
But not necessarily food, an overindulgence of food is included.
This secondary meaning seems to indicate any good thing used to excess or in the wrong way.
Zalal is used 10 times in the OT.
Deuteronomy 21:20
Proverbs 23:20
Proverbs 23:21
Proverbs 28:7
Isaiah 63:19
Isaiah 64:2
Jeremiah 2:36
Jeremiah 15:19
Lamentations 1:8
Lamentations 1:11
HankD
In that respect Hebrew is similar to English, a language with homonyms.
e.g. The English word “light”. As opposed to “darkness”.
However it has a homonym “light” as opposed to “heavy”.
Zalal can mean (1) “to shake, quake” or (2) the homonym is used in the sense of moral weakness or even depravation.
In that sense it is difficult to define with a single English word e.g. “overindulgence”.
But not necessarily food, an overindulgence of food is included.
This secondary meaning seems to indicate any good thing used to excess or in the wrong way.
Zalal is used 10 times in the OT.
Deuteronomy 21:20
Proverbs 23:20
Proverbs 23:21
Proverbs 28:7
Isaiah 63:19
Isaiah 64:2
Jeremiah 2:36
Jeremiah 15:19
Lamentations 1:8
Lamentations 1:11
HankD
Thanks Hank. Hope you won’t mind if I happen to plagiarize you in a paraphrase someday. 
Need to make a correction tho…seems you missed the numbers on Isaiah, they are 64:1,3, and zalal does not appear in Jeremiah 2:36.
Here's the list:
Deuteronomy 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Proverbs 23:20-21 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: (21) For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Proverbs 28:7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father.
Isaiah 64:1 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,
Isaiah 64:3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
Jeremiah 15:19 Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.
Lamentations 1:8 Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honored her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
Lamentations 1:11 All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their pleasant things for meat to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.
Need to make a correction tho…seems you missed the numbers on Isaiah, they are 64:1,3, and zalal does not appear in Jeremiah 2:36.Here's the list:
Deuteronomy 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Proverbs 23:20-21 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: (21) For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Proverbs 28:7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father.
Isaiah 64:1 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,
Isaiah 64:3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
Jeremiah 15:19 Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.
Lamentations 1:8 Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honored her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
Lamentations 1:11 All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their pleasant things for meat to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.
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Okay, I’ll admit there could be a reason other than overeating that some people are overweight! It is probably the shampoo they use in the shower that runs down their body which says "for extra volume and body". They should start using "Dawn" dish soap. It says "dissolves fat that is otherwise difficult to remove".
I thought Eternal life was what Christ said:I couldn't edit my post yesterday, but actually eternal life and Christianity go hand in hand. That is living as long as possible
:tongue3:
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
But the very site you linked to contains this (emphasis mine):
Diseases and Conditions That Put Your Heart at Risk
Other conditions that affect your heart or increase your risk of death or disability include arrhythmia, heart failure, and peripheral artery disease (PAD). High cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, diabetes, tobacco use, unhealthy diet, physical inactivity, and secondhand smoke are also risk factors associated with heart disease.
So though you may be correct to say that obesity is not the number one killer of Americans (I just don't know), it certainly seems that obesity is a contributary factor. Indeed, another CDC site includes this:Other conditions that affect your heart or increase your risk of death or disability include arrhythmia, heart failure, and peripheral artery disease (PAD). High cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, diabetes, tobacco use, unhealthy diet, physical inactivity, and secondhand smoke are also risk factors associated with heart disease.
In a recent government study, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that obesity is fast approaching tobacco as the top underlying preventable cause of death in the USA.
[snip]
In 2000, poor diet including obesity and physical inactivity caused 400,000 U.S. deaths -- more than 16 percent of all deaths and the No. 2 killer. That compares with 435,000 for tobacco, or 18 percent, as the top underlying killer.
According to the study the gap between the two is substantially narrower than in 1990, when poor diet and inactivity caused 300,000 deaths, 14 percent, compared with 400,000 for tobacco, or 19 percent, says a report from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
[snip]
In 2000, poor diet including obesity and physical inactivity caused 400,000 U.S. deaths -- more than 16 percent of all deaths and the No. 2 killer. That compares with 435,000 for tobacco, or 18 percent, as the top underlying killer.
According to the study the gap between the two is substantially narrower than in 1990, when poor diet and inactivity caused 300,000 deaths, 14 percent, compared with 400,000 for tobacco, or 19 percent, says a report from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Thanks Hank. Hope you won’t mind if I happen to plagiarize you in a paraphrase someday.
Here's the list:
Deuteronomy 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Proverbs 23:20-21 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: (21) For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Proverbs 28:7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father.
Isaiah 64:1 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,
Isaiah 64:3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.
Jeremiah 15:19 Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.
Lamentations 1:8 Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honored her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
Lamentations 1:11 All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their pleasant things for meat to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.
Thanks Benjamin, feel free to use whatever you want. I noticed that one Hebrew reader I used put the zalal at the end of the previous verses in Isaiah and not the first of the next. Not sure why it is that way but I went with that. Maybe a difference in ben chayyim vs. ben asher texts.
I should have gone with the KJV.
Here are the first couple of words in Jeremiah 2:36.
Check it out for me. I enboldened and underlined the zalal part.
It is qal imperfect second person feminine singular of zalal according to my source.
dam. ylzT-hm;
Thanks
HankD
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saturneptune
New Member
We had a deacon so large when he sang "Love Lifted Me," 1 Cor Chapter 13 has been missing ever since.
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