The “Crossless” Gospel at the Crossroads

[reformedbeliever]

I reject irresistable grace and this idea that man and God work together as well. The credit for salvation begins and ends with He who has the power to give it. (John 1:12,13)

Irresistable grace does not mean that they will never resist...... It only means that they will eventually come. All that the Father gives me will come to me. Glad to hear you are not synergist.

 

[Amy.G]

You heard about the arminian puppies for sale? A guy had a sign out for arminian puppies for sale. The puppies were newborn, and not weaned yet. A man stopped to look, and bought an arminian puppy since he himself was arminian. After the puppies were weaned, the man stopped to pick up his puppy, but noticed that the sign now read calvinist puppies. The man was upset and stated that he thought he had bought an arminian puppy. The other man told him that the puppies were arminian but since their eyes were now open, they became calvinist.

Are you calling me a dog? :laugh: :laugh:

I do feel like my eyes have been opened. Although I know that some would say I've really been blinded. Oh well.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Are you calling me a dog? :laugh: :laugh:

I do feel like my eyes have been opened. Although I know that some would say I've really been blinded. Oh well.

For me, Calvinism is the only system that does not have to appologize for any Scripture. ALL the Scripture comes alive in this system. Synergist have to account for the fact that not all are given the Gospel. This is something that the synergist has to run from. Has there been a thread on synergism? I'm sure there has been, but I'm not aware of it. I think that would be a great thread for you to start Amy.

 

[webdog]

synergism, in general, may be defined as two or more agents working together to produce a result not obtainable by any of the agents independently.

First, God never needed the "help" of man in granting salvation. Requiring from us the acceptance of His Gift is not requiring "help". If He wanted to arbitrarily select individuals sans faith, He could have very well done just that. He didn't.
I don't need God's "help" in being saved, I need God's mercy. I cannot save myself. From God sending His Son, Christ's propitiation and atonement for sin, to God's revealing of truth, it's all God. Requiring faith is not requiring "help" whatsoever, it's requiring obedience as taught throughout Scripture.

 

[webdog]

For me, Calvinism is the only system that does not have to appologize for any Scripture. ALL the Scripture comes alive in this system. Synergist have to account for the fact that not all are given the Gospel. This is something that the synergist has to run from. Has there been a thread on synergism? I'm sure there has been, but I'm not aware of it. I think that would be a great thread for you to start Amy.

There is so many fallacies in this one post, it could take all day to respond to it...and I don't have the time nor patience. Maybe someone else can?

 

[webdog]

Are you calling me a dog? :laugh: :laugh:

I do feel like my eyes have been opened. Although I know that some would say I've really been blinded. Oh well.

What do our "feelings" have to do with anything

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Irresistable grace does not mean that they will never resist......

And?

 

[reformedbeliever]

First, God never needed the "help" of man in granting salvation. Requiring from us the acceptance of His Gift is not requiring "help". If He wanted to arbitrarily select individuals sans faith, He could have very well done just that. He didn't.
I don't need God's "help" in being saved, I need God's mercy. I cannot save myself. From God sending His Son, Christ's propitiation and atonement for sin, to God's revealing of truth, it's all God. Requiring faith is not requiring "help" whatsoever, it's requiring obedience as taught throughout Scripture.

Where did your faith come from? Mine came from God.

 

[reformedbeliever]

And?

It only means that they will eventually come. All that the Father gives me will come to me.

 

[Amy.G]

What do our "feelings" have to do with anything

I'll restate it.

My eyes have been opened. Although I know that some would say I've really been blinded. Oh well.

Is that better?

 

[EdSutton]

I'll restate it.



Is that better?

I knoiw there are verses that speak of the blindness that is happened, in part, to Israel; and blindness to the lost by the 'god of this age', among other blindednesses.

Does anyone know if there are any verses that ever speak of a believer being 'blinded'?

I really don't have the time to research that, at the moment, because I am busy counting .

Ed

 

[npetreley]

Where did your faith come from? Mine came from God.

Judging from the snippet of the response I saw, it looks like wd is trying to redefine synergy as "God requires help because God can't do it all by Himself".

From Wikipedia:

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent.

 

[Amy.G]

I knoiw there are verses that speak of the blindness that is happened, in part, to Israel; and blindness to the lost by the 'god of this age', among other blindednesses.

Does anyone know if there are any verses that ever speak of a believer being 'blinded'?

I really don't have the time to research that, at the moment, because I am busy counting .

Ed

I'm not sure of your point here, Ed.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Where did your faith come from? Mine came from God.

Ok instead of repeating the obvious tell me why you thought it was pertinent to the conversation.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Ok instead of repeating the obvious tell me why you thought it was pertinent to the conversation.

What are you talking about?

 

[npetreley]

Ok instead of repeating the obvious tell me why you thought it was pertinent to the conversation.

I'm guessing the idea is this. Assume God "requires" faith as one of the "cooperative energies" of salvation. If the source of faith is God, that's monergy. If the source of faith is man, that's synergy.

 

[Rippon]

I'm not sure of your point here, Ed.

Ed : Amy was using a figure of speech . She was indicating that those on the other side of the aisle would probably say she was blinded by her new Calvinistic understanding of the Scriptures . IOW , she has been misled . But , in reality her spiritual eyes have been opened -- just not in the regenerative sense . I would compare her enlightenment to that of Apollos when he was led into a fuller understanding of the Scriptures by Priscilla and Aquila ( see Acts 18:26 ) . However , in Amy's case she came into her current way of thinking without human assistance . The Lord has something to do with it I believe .:godisgood:

 

[reformedbeliever]

Ed : Amy was using a figure of speech . She was indicating that those on the other side of the aisle would probably say she was blinded by her new Calvinistic understanding of the Scriptures . IOW , she has been misled . But , in reality her spiritual eyes have been opened -- just not in the regenerative sense . I would compare her enlightenment to that of Apollos when he was led into a fuller understanding of the Scriptures by Priscilla and Aquila ( see Acts 18:26 ) . However , in Amy's case she came into her current way of thinking without human assistance . The Lord has something to do with it I believe .:godisgood:

Amen brother Rippon!

 

[EdSutton]

I'm not sure of your point here, Ed.

No point, per se. But since a couple spoke of eyes being opened and blindness, I was just a-wonderin'.

Ed

 

[webdog]

Where did your faith come from? Mine came from God.

Since I didn't create myself...my answer is God, too, which is my point exactly. Everything we have, and everything God requires from us is given to us by God.