The 1000 years

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

"In my Father's house ARE (already) many mansions - if it were not so - I would have told you. (They ARE - they HAVE been made ready for you, or I'm lying!) Because I to prepare your place (there) for you, go. (Greek. That means, the Presence of Jesus is what makes the difference.) And if I go and prepare (or, am the Preparing of) a place for you (in the Father's Presence - in other words, I go to be your Representative or Mediator before the Father.)
And if I go and prepare a place for you again (that is, while I am going to be your Advocate - let it be your consolation - so surely) I will come again, and will receive you, UNTO MYSELF (That is, will raise you from the dead); that WHERE I AM (which then will be where Jesus then shall be, which is, RETURNED to His own on earth after the resurrection), ye also may be."

That, with respect confessed and believed, shall be on the New Earth, Rv21; not, "in heaven"!

You show me where it is written: "in heaven"!
You cannot!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan:
"We are "gathered together to him" at that point.

On that we can agree completely.

My only argument is that the event takes place at the FIRST resurrection which as we see in Rev 19 and 20 is a Post-TRIB event."

GE:
"... "gathered together to him" at that point ..." (-- of 'the rapture' --) ... takes place at the FIRST resurrection which as we see in Rev 19 and 20 is a Post-TRIB event."
The classical drinker's acclaim! "Here a little, there a little". I loathe it!

You show me a 'rapture', "IN 'Rev 19 and 20'" You cannot! ALL it 'shows' "IN 'Rev 19 and 20'", is VERY 'earthly' stuff!

You show me "the FIRST resurrection ... in Rev...20"!
You cannot!
But, what makes me even more cross, is, that I may not show 'the First Resurrection' where John shows it parrallel and equivalent with "The Thousand Years" --- in Rv20:1-6!!!

You show me where, 'as YOU see', the FIRST resurrection ... in Rev 19 and 20 is a Post-TRIB event"!

I'll show you, where 'The First Resurrection' is a 'PRE-TRIB event' --- read it in Rv20:1-6!!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan:
"Matt 24 also points to our gathering together to him as being "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days"."

GE:
What do you take your readers for, BobRyan? O, but it's good the way it is! You are your own greatest enemy!

"our gathering together to him" a la Bob Ryan, dear readers is this in Matthew 24, verse 28: "Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the vultures be gathered together"!

And BobRyan at the same time made this "our gathering together to him" the saved of God only, while verse 30 says "Then shall ALL the tribes of the earth MOURN" (like in the days of Noah, verses 37 further). Because it is THEN, that "it is written", "And He shall send his angels with great sound of trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heaven to the other." And both 'parties' both 'elect' and reprobate IN THAT DAY shall receive just reward.

 

[BobRyan]

Here's a little information that might help us to understand the different end times views. This information comes from my book entitled "Rose Book of Bible Charts, Maps and Time lines. Great book by the way!

Historic Pre-mil (Covenant Pre-mil)
The earliest view held by early church fathers, Lactantius (AD 240-320), Irenaeus (AD 130-200), Justin Martyr (AD 100-165), and probably Papias (AD 60-130), a disciple of the apostle John.

Events in order:
Church age
tribulation (the church remains during this)
second coming of Christ
millennium
eternity

I vote for that one.

Dispensational Pre-mil
This view emerged in the 1800's among Plymouth Brethren and was/is held by John Nelson Darby, C.I. Scofield, Harry Ironside, Gleason Archer, Donald G. Barnhouse, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Smith, John MacArthur, Charles Ryrie, Charles Stanley, Norman L. Geisler, and Tim LaHaye.

Events in order:
Church age
rapture
tribulation
second coming
millennium
final judgment
eternity

Johnny come lately...

For the first 5 centuries of the church, the Historic Pre-mil view was held. Why should we change? Shouldn't we trust the early church fathers, since many of them studied under the apostles themselves?

Agreed. Besides it fits perfectly with Matt 24 AND it fit's perfectly with the Resurrection of Rev 20:4-5 being "the FIRST resurrection" even though it happens at the Rev 19 coming of Christ.

It all just works --

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan:
"We are "gathered together to him" at that point.

On that we can agree completely.

My only argument is that the event takes place at the FIRST resurrection which as we see in Rev 19 and 20 is a Post-TRIB event."

GE:
"... "gathered together to him" at that point ..." (-- of 'the rapture' --) ... takes place at the FIRST resurrection which as we see in Rev 19 and 20 is a Post-TRIB event."
The classical drinker's acclaim! "Here a little, there a little". I loathe it!

You show me a 'rapture', "IN 'Rev 19 and 20'" You cannot! ALL it 'shows' "IN 'Rev 19 and 20'", is VERY 'earthly' stuff!

You show me "the FIRST resurrection ... in Rev...20"!
You cannot!
But, what makes me even more cross, is, that I may not show 'the First Resurrection' where John shows it parrallel and equivalent with "The Thousand Years" --- in Rv20:1-6!!!

You show me where, 'as YOU see', the FIRST resurrection ... in Rev 19 and 20 is a Post-TRIB event"!

I'll show you, where 'The First Resurrection' is a 'PRE-TRIB event' --- read it in Rv20:1-6!!

GE:
At second reading, I admit, this is a confused post! I got so exited I said things in a hopeless way. Draw a line through it, please.