Featured The 5 Points that lead me out of Calvinism

jonc

It is to me, it doesnt matter if its not to you ! By Nature man is spiritually dead, Illustrated as how Lazarus was physically dead ! Just as an physically dead person cannot respond, neither can a Spiritually dead person respond, without first being made alive by an miraculous resurrection !

 

br

Thats what makes my point, those in the flesh are spiritually lost, dead in sin, and cannot please God, so a lost person cannot put faith in Christ for Salvation since that would please God. The Rom 8:8 scripture says this:

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

That word cannot means they dont have the ability to do it !

Thats right, and Faith is part of the Law of God, I have showed that already Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And so those Lost, in the flesh, not born again, cannot obey the command to believe on Christ !

 

Well said! However I believe I would present point #3 as follows:

3. God uses the evil that men do for His own purposes, yet He doesn't cause the evil that they do.

You mention the tensions created by your three points. I believe that are other tensions created by Scripture: The Doctrine of the Trinity and the extent of the Atonement for example.

 

God is not the doer of sin or mans evil, but the first cause of it, He is ! How can one do anything except God gives them a being to do it ?

 

:thumbs:Yeah, I find that "intends the evil" business "deeply troubling".

 

Nonsense! we have all obeyed the laws of God because they are also the Laws of man. Even though we also break those same Laws from time to time.
MB

 

MB, you need to know that savedbymercy has a monomaniacal fascination with Matt. 23:23 asserting that "faith" is a weightier matter of the law and therefore faith is a work. An entire theology by savedbymercy is based on this single verse from the KJV.

It's hilarious because the word the KJV renders "faith" in this verse should be translated "faithfulness".

Much unproductive discussion (I use the word discussion loosely) has been bandied about over this verse. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97111

 

mb

Tell that to the scripture I showed you, God's Word !

 

jc

Is that what you want to call it ? Can someone sin who does not exist ?

 

I will never blame God for my sins or my failures! You can believe what you choose and answer to God for it.

 

Perhaps we should just let Ryan and "sbm" duke it out. They seem to be polar opposites and on the very edge of Scriptural teaching if that close!

 

the claim is not that the lost state "pleases God" --

The claim is that "God so Loved the World that HE gave" for those who did not "have faith" for lost humanity that in their lost stated - "do not please God".

And Once the lost are born again then in fact they walk by faith not by sight.

But until they "choose" to open the door Rev 3.

until they "choose" to believe with their heart and confess with their mouth - they remain unchanged and not at all born again or as you might say - regenerate.

the claim is not that the lost state "pleases God" --

The claim is that "God so Loved the World that HE gave" for those who did not "have faith" for lost humanity that in their lost stated - "do not please God".

And Once the lost are born again then in fact they walk by faith not by sight.

But until they "choose" to open the door Rev 3.

until they "choose" to believe with their heart and confess with their mouth - they remain unchanged and not at all born again or as you might say - regenerate.




hence the Romans 10 problem for Calvinism

 

As per the OP....someone would have to be in Calvinism to depart from it. The poster has never shown where he actually understood the teaching at anytime.
If he understood the teaching he would not offer caricatures of it. he has in times past offered some posts closer than others to what the teaching actually is.
AA gave a solid critique [philosophy instead of theology]and the fact that it drew responses from BB philosophers shows that.{ hey Benjamin how are you?]

If an objector cannot present a view that would be welcomed by those who hold the view...can he be said to hold it???

We see on BB...many say many things and claim novelties and invent things that have been historically discredited as if it was a "new approach"...or just being from the bible only....sure...then you see it was copied from an anti-cal site....as several have done in times past.

 

Rabbit Trail comment and evasive from my comment !

 

OK board...then answer for me this simple question, do you believe that God wrought David’s work in him related to the Bathsheba and Uriah affair?

 

I have responded to the following asinine claim that God is the author of sin.

My response:

Instead of squalling rabbit trail every time someone takes you to task for your blasphemy you would do well to pray to God for His mercy! You take Scripture completely out of context, philosophize a wee bit about it, then draw your asinine and blasphemous conclusions, and expect folks to dance to your hellish tune.

 

I don't and David did not when confronted by Nathan!

Psalms 51:1-19 <<To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.>>
1. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14. Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15. O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18. Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19. Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

David was no "sbm" he did not blame his sin on God. Neither was David a "Flip Wilson", he did not blame the devil!

I believe in the above Psalm we see part of the reason the following was said of David.

Acts 13:22. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

God held David accountable for his sin and David held himself responsible for his sin. David was punished severely in this life for his sins and mistakes!