The 70th Week of Daniels Prophecy

[OldRegular]

So explain this:
From the BHS interlinear,

24 Sevens seventy he is segregated on people of you and on city of holiness of you to -to detain the transgression and to -to seal of and to – to finish bring of sins sin and to – to make propitiatory shelter of depravity and to – to bring of reighteousness of eons and to – to seal of visions and prophet and to - to anoint of holiness of holinesses.

Who are the people of you in this passage?

Whose people are they?

If the prophecy is about the Jews the only thing they did was to conspire with their bitter enemies their Roman rulers to murder their Messiah because HE did not come to establish a carnal earthly kingdom, throw off the yoke of Rome, and never will. It is certain that the remarks about transgression were fulfilled during the 70th week by these evil Jews. The Jews "finished" their transgression when they Crucified Christ. That was their crowning offense. The Enormity of the crime of condemning Christ to death on the cross cannot be surpassed, and therefore it "finished" their Transgression.

Also during the 70th week Jesus Christ did the following for the true believers:

1. to make an end of sins
2. to make reconciliation for iniquity.
3. to bring in everlasting righteousness.

Then as the opening verses of Hebrews and the closing verses of Revelation show Jesus Christ sealed up the vision and prophecy. Finally Jesus Christ through his shed blood anointed the most holy place whether it is the Church as some believe or according to Hebrews 9:12.

I have presented Scripture showing that these six conditions were accomplished through the Sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the thread The Messianic Kingdom. No one has refuted those Scripture.

One other thing Jesus Christ accomplished on the Cross during the 70th week. He made the continuation of blood sacrifices in the Temple an abomination. Those sacrifices will never again be tolerated and GOD showed this when HE destroyed the Temple in 70AD where evil priests continued that abomination.

You can post all the verses you want from that interlinear but they prove nothing because they are unintelligible unless one reads Hebrew or Greek. Those people will be able to structure the sentence properly.

One thing that is clear: Sevens seventy. It doesn't say 69 sevens, an indeterminate period of time lasting 2000 years and counting, and then the last seven. It says seventy sevens, a continuous period of time.

You people who dote the false doctrine of pre-trib-dispensationalism need to grow spiritually. GOD is willing if you are!

All that "Left Behind fiction" is for the Spiritually immature!

 

[OldRegular]

revmwc

Why don't you answer the following questions I posed to the moderator?

Originally Posted by OldRegular
I have posted what Scripture shows to be true. On more than one occasion I have shown where each of those six conditions were accomplished through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Neither you or anyone else responded. So answer me this! Do you believe the following statement by an unnamed moderator from his post #70 on the thread, The Messianic Kingdom.

These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

I have taken the liberty of bolding the last statement.

You ask a lot of questions but answer none!

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Regardless, the thread was closed before you had a chance to respond to the last post:

it was closed to protect you from being exposed as teaching error and bearing false witness [which you do all the time]as we shall see.

The most important thing to understand is the context.

and yet you never quite get it:thumbs:

70 weeks are determined upon THY people and THY holy city.

Who were those people and whose city was it?
That answer is obvious. Since the people of Daniel are the nation of Israel

your dispensational straight jacket forces wrong conclusions once again

we know that the following phrases in verse 24 do not have to do with the benefits of the cross nor the imputation of righteousness.

we do not know this as you say.....your posts are an instruction manual how to miss truth every time
:thumbs:

They have to do with the fulfillment of promises directly related to the nation of Israel--the people of Daniel.

When one takes away the context of the passage they are bound to come to a wrong conclusion

.

Daniel 9 affects all people.....the OT affects all people....the only wrong conclusion is your dispensational speculations and fantasies.

All of these verses speak of something still future;

When Daniel was written they were still future....they are reality now

something still to come--a heavenly Jerusalem, an innumerable company of angels, those...which are written in heaven, to the spirits of just men made perfect.

they have already come and were in effect when Hebrews was written. That is another of the truths you deny.

You deny the new covenant is for gentiles as described in Hebrews 8, and Ezk 36.....
You deny the inner heart transplant at regeneration as described in Ezk 36

You deny the Kingdom is now...

This is a heavenly scene.
But the context is Israel.
And the phrase is: to anoint the most Holy.
The passage has nothing to do with it.

You really have no grasp of any of this

Christ will be anointed

Christ is the anointed one right now...by definition

as "the most Holy One," when he sits physically on the throne of David in the Millennial Kingdom and be crowned as King of kings, and Lord as Lords.

This is a reality right now, which you deny...you deny it right here in the next quote:

This, of course, will take place immediately after His Second Coming. Then every knee shall bow to him and every tongue confess to Him that He is Lord, to the glory of the Father. The most Holy (one) will indeed be anointed. This is still to come, obviously! It has not taken place yet!

You deny the present reign of King Jesus and you profess Satan to be ruling your world.

You display your message of defeat here in the next post...you say Satan rules/ not Christ

This message to Daniel has only the nation of Israel in mind. It does not have the promises to the Gentiles in mind, and this is where you go astray.

There is no everlasting righteousness that has been brought in.
The god of this world, Satan, rules this world, not Christ.
Christ's rule will come when He comes and sets up His Kingdom

.



from the other thread-
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
DHK;

For Christians it is a reality now;

Apparently you have no idea what it is like to live the Christian life in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc.
Coddled up in good ole' USA and "your righteousness" perhaps you blind your eyes to the evil of ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and all the other evils of this world.
The Lord has NOT brought in everlasting righteousness to this world.
Be not deceived. You may have a personal righteousness, a standing before God personally, that has been imputed to you.
But the verse uses the verb "to bring in." Not the same thing.

This has nothing to do with this discussion at all. The enemies of God resist His Kingdom rule as He rules with a rod of Iron. Judgment will be exact and every single sin will be punished.




Quote:
Jeremiah 23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.

2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.

3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord.

5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

And that hasn't happened yet, has it?
The King has not executed judgment and justice in this earth.
The god of this world still reigns as he pushes ISIS along.
The King does not execute judgment on their evil.

Quote:
sorry to hear you under under Satans rule......
I am under the rule of the King of Kings...The Lord Jesus Christ.

By the power of Christ we have spiritual power to overcome individual spiritual victories. But you don't have God's power to go and fight ISIS.
You don't rule with Christ as King of kings, for at the moment he doesn't rule as King of kings. He may be the King of kings, but he isn't exercising that authority yet. Not until he comes again and sets up his kingdom will he exercise that authority.
This world is in a mess. It is under the rule of Satan, that wicked one. He is the prince of the power of the air. The whole world lies in wickedness.

People are being saved worldwide despite your message of defeat and gloom.






Quote:
He already came and instituted it;

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

When he institutes his kingdom it will be visible to all to see it.
Apparently you live in a fantasy kingdom--no one can see it. That is what happens when you allegorize scripture.

The scripture you quote is a reference to the Lord's Table, not the Kingdom.
It is a red herring, like much of the scripture you give.


Quote:
DHK says;
(Hebrews 12:18-24, KJV)

sure it does...it is now for Christians...you deny it, you deny the NC.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

But ye are come:
1. unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
2. to an innumerable company of angels,
3. church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,
4. to God the Judge of all
5. to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Let's see if this makes sense for you Icon. You said you have already come here, and I am the one denying the NT.

Yes... you are in major denial ...most everyday your posts are in decline and indicate your thoughts are growing more disorientated and fragmented.:thumbs:


stay tuned for part 2-

 

[Iconoclast]

Lets consider the evidence from your own posting that you have lost your mind because of dispensational scriptural fragmentation dis-order.

1. Have you been to the city of the living God (in heaven) --the Heavenly Jerusalem. John had a vision of such written in the Book of Revelation. But you claim to have been to heaven and back. What else did you see? Are you going to write a book about it also?

Where did I claim to go to Heaven and back ? Can you show where I posted this going to heaven and back? or is it more false witness and delusional thinking from your dispy illness?

When the writer tells these Hebrews they have come to the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem, He is speaking of them having been effectually called into saving Union with Christ , by The Spirits work of Spirit baptismeffected at new birth.
All those verses you deny are a reality...heb 8, ezk 36, numbers 19, jn 3 ex24:8 hebrews9 and 10....

You because of your dispensational afflication are unable to lay hold of truth:wavey:

2. "to an innumerable company of angels" Just how many angels were there?

The text says they are...innumerable, and yet you ask how many? You have lost brain cells to dispy notions....


And you could see them? What did they look like? Did they have wings? Please describe your experience here in heaven.

3. The 'church' of the firstborn which are written in heaven. The "assembly" as the word should be translated. It is the only time that all believers will be assembled in heaven, and you claim to have already been there! Amazing![/QUOTE]


No...I claim you bear false witness....where did I say such a thing?This ONE church assembles on the last day as Jesus taught in Jn6....that is the TRUE RAPTURE...the last day.

4. To God the Judge of all. The amazing thing about this is that the Bible distinctly says that "No man can see God and live." But you are special aren't you. You beaten the odds. You have looked at God the Father and lived. How did you do it? Not even Moses could pull that one off.

Don't you feel stupid posting this silliness? All because you cannot enter into the truth....poor OR ...has corrected you dozens of times in just the last week, you should pay him for being patient with you despite your turning away and opposing yourself.

5. to the spirits of just men made perfect.
Icon how long have you been seeing spirits? Do I need to say anything further?

No...you have embarrassed yourself very convincingly .

 

[DHK]

(Hebrews 12:18-24, KJV)

sure it does...it is now for Christians...you deny it, you deny the NC.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

But ye are come:
1. unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
2. to an innumerable company of angels,
3. church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,
4. to God the Judge of all
5. to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Yes... you are in major denial ...most everyday your posts are in decline and indicate your thoughts are growing more disorientated and fragmented.:thumbs:

stay tuned for part 2-

Let's simply look at the Scripture within the context it is given.

The overall context of the Book of Hebrews:
It is a book of contrast. There were some among the Jewish believers that were very discouraged because of the great persecution they were undergoing, and thinking of returning to Judaism, to Temple-worship. Though this is ultimately impossible, the writer of the Book of Hebrews nevertheless writes to them and in such a beautiful way contrasts the OT Judaic system to the NT walk with Christ. Thus words like "better than" are key. Also "let us," as in "let us move on" are also common. It is a book of contrast.
In chapter one Christ is better than the angels.
In chapter three He is better than Moses.
In chapter four He, being our rest, is better than the Sabbath Day rest.
He also is our Great High Priest, better than the High Priest of the OT.
And so the letter goes on comparing both how Christ is better; how the NT believer is in a better position.

Now to Hebrews 12:
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The contrast here is between the Jews coming to Mount Sinai, and believers who some day will come to the Heaven Jerusalem. We haven't reached there yet.

Earlier on we are informed:
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
--Israel came to Mount Sinai. They were on the way to the Promised Land.
This is where the Old Covenant was made. What happened?
God shook the earth. There were signs and wonders. The people feared.
Notice the specific mention of the sound of a trumpet, the voice they heard, and a voice they would hear no more. It was a fearful scene.

The writer goes on:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
--Even Moses said, "I exceeding fear and quake."

Now it is not the nation of Israel, but NT believers.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion,
--Mount Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem. It is a heavenly scene.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
--As Moses mediated the first Covenant, Jesus mediated the second.

Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
--These were Jewish believers thinking of going back to Temple worship.
Some of them in Moses day died. They could not escape the judgment of Jehovah when the rebelled against God's Law, God's Covenant.
It was then that God shook the earth, but it was the earth only at Mount Sinai.

When He comes again, he will not only shake the earth but the heavens also.
The OT repeatedly speaks of "the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" (The Tribulation, Jacob's Trouble), at the end of which Christ will come in the glory of His Father with the heavenly angels. He will shake the earth and the heavens. He will set up his Kingdom. And Heavenly Jerusalem will immediately follow.

Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

We receive a kingdom which cannot be moved. This is not speaking of this invisible kingdom which the amills envision. It speaks of The Millennial Kingdom which Satan cannot destroy, in which Christ will sit from the Throne of David and rule with a rod of iron, and all will be subject to him.
There will be no ISIS.
Every person on earth will bow the knee to Christ and honor him as King of kings.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
--They indeed shall fear.

 

[revmwc]

revmwc

Why don't you answer the following questions I posed to the moderator?

How many times do you want me to answer them?

I'll go back and copy and past from the other thread where they were answered?

Let me get this straight are you asking as it is laid out in Daniel 9 or for the people of our age? Which do you want fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy for HIS people or for the people of this age?

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Post 25 was your best post in about 8 months.Most every Christian can agree with most of the factual portions of your post.
No one would be critical of you if you post in this manner consistently.

I disagree with your last two or three paragraphs in that you put it off into the future because of the end time calendar you use.

The language speaks of Christ speaking from heaven now....to those who are in the Kingdom now...it says we receiving a Kingdom...it does not say.......someday someone will welcome this kingdom

 

[revmwc]

revmwc

Why don't you answer the following questions I posed to the moderator?

Hebrews 8:8-13;
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the portion in Red this has not yet happened and this supports Daniel 9:24 after those days what days the days in which the 70th week occurs, then the Lord will fulfill these events for the Jews He will have:

Originally Posted by OldRegular


--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

The new covenant will be established with Israel God's people, Daniel's people and God will be their God and will rule and reign over them. They will then have the custody of Scripture and the Gospel placed with them. Hebrews 8 makes that very clear. It shows us God is not through with Israel but will make a new covenant with them. Just as he has made the New Covenant of Grace with His church. The covenant of the Law was abolished by the covenant of Grace, but God will establish a covenant with Israel after the 70th week, that hasn't occurred and Verse 10 of chapter 8 makes that abundantly clear.

 

[DHK]

DHK

Post 25 was your best post in about 8 months.Most every Christian can agree with most of the factual portions of your post.
No one would be critical of you if you post in this manner consistently.

I disagree with your last two or three paragraphs in that you put it off into the future because of the end time calendar you use.

The language speaks of Christ speaking from heaven now....to those who are in the Kingdom now...it says we receiving a Kingdom...it does not say.......someday someone will welcome this kingdom

The contrast is between two peoples coming to two places:
One to Mount Sinia; the other to Mount Zion (the heavenly Jerusalem).

At the former the earth shakes and the trumpet is blown.
At the latter the earth and heaven will shake and trumpet will be blown.

At the former God came down in partial glory to man (Moses)
At the latter Christ will come in great glory to all.

At the former God was a reminder of judgement (the smoke of the mountain)
At the latter we are reminded of judgment (Our God is a consuming fire)

The contrast IMO, is very evident of two comings, one of which is still future.
We haven't reached heaven yet.

 

[revmwc]

The Feast of Trumpets shows the Rapture! It is the next Great Event to be fulfilled of the Feast. The first 4 feast were literally fulfilled at Christ 1st advent the next three will be literally fulfilled in God's order. There was a gap between the fulfillment, just as there is a gap between the first four feast and the last three. Then another shorter period between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement, thus the Rapture with a short 7 year period of Tribulation leading to the Atonement that is the repentance of national Israel and then the Tabernacle will be with mankind in the form of Jesus in the 1000 year Kingdom.

The period of atonement leading to the (Day) of Atonement in which the Jewish people were to repent it will bring Israel:

--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

Then the feast of the Tabernacle and thus the 1000 year kingdom, all beautifully showing how God's plan will be carried out for the Redemption of all mankind as well as His fulfillment of the promises to National Israel as His people.

 

[OldRegular]

How many times do you want me to answer them?

Once will suffice! And please don't hide your response by bloviating endlessly!

I'll go back and copy and past from the other thread where they were answered?

Let me get this straight are you asking as it is laid out in Daniel 9 or for the people of our age? Which do you want fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy for HIS people or for the people of this age?

Daniels prophecy was fulfilled COMPLETELY by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. The other stuff you pre-tribbers preach is explained in the following:

The 70 weeks of Daniel

As part of the Counter Reformation, the Catholic Church commissioned Jesuit priests to write counter interpretations of Bible prophecy as a counter response to the Protestant reformation when the finger was pointed at them as being antichrist. Spanish Jesuit, Francisco Ribera proposed that the final seven years of the 70 weeks of Daniel was a future antichrist and that antichrist would bring an end to sacrifices in a rebuilt temple. This is where the supposed 7 years of tribulation comes from before the second coming of Christ. But this was manufactured prophecy, written with the sole purpose of deceiving Christians on the true identity of antichrist. When has a Bible passage ever been so abused by Satan? Attributing Daniel’s 70th week of Jesus’ baptism and crucifixion and applying it instead to antichrist is outright blasphemous.

From: {http://www.daniels70weeks.com/index.html}

Inroads in Protestantism

For almost 300 years after the Council of Trent, this Roman Catholic baby (Jesuit futurism) remained largely inside the crib of Catholicism, but the plan of the Jesuits was that this baby would grow up and finally be adopted by Protestants. This adoption process actually began in the early 1800s in England, and from there it spread to America. The story of how this happened is both tragic and fascinating. As I briefly share some of the highlights, I want to clarify that many of those whom I will mention were (and are) genuine Christians. But is it possible for a Christian to unknowingly become a channel for error? In other words, can a sincere Christian be used by both the devil and Jesus Christ? At first we might say, “Never!” but consider this. In Matthew 16, Jesus told Peter that God was blessing him as he shared his faith in Christ (Matthew 16:15-17), and then just a few minutes later, Peter yielded to temptation and Satan spoke through him! (Matthew 16:21-23) This proves that a Christian can be used by both Lucifer and God, and all within a short space of time.

“The futurism of Ribera never posed a positive threat to the Protestants for three centuries. It was virtually confined to the Roman Church. But early in the nineteenth century it sprang forth with vehemence and latched on to Protestants of the Established Church of England.” [9] Dr. Samuel Roffey Maitland (1792-1866), a Bible scholar and lawyer, became a librarian to the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is very likely that one day he discovered Ribera’s commentary in the library. In any event, in 1826 he published a widely read book attacking the Reformation and supporting Ribera’s idea of a future one man Antichrist. For the next ten years, in tract after tract, he continued his anti-Reformation rhetoric. As a result of his zeal and strong attacks against the Reformation in England, the Protestantism of that very nation which produced the King James Bible (1611) received a crushing blow.

After Dr. Maitland came James H. Todd, a professor of Hebrew at the University of Dublin. Todd accepted the futurism ideas of Maitland, publishing his own supportive books and pamphlets. Then came John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a member of the Church of England and a leader of the famous Oxford Movement (1833-1845). In 1850, Newman wrote his “Letter on Anglican Difficulties” revealing that one of the goals in the Oxford Movement was to finally absorb “the various English denominations and parties” back into the Church of Rome. After publishing a pamphlet endorsing Todd’s futurism about a one man Antichrist, Newman soon became a full Roman Catholic and later even a highly honoured Cardinal. Through the influence of Maitland, Todd, Newman, and others, a definite “Romeward movement was already arising, destined to sweep away the old Protestant landmarks, as with a flood.” [10]

Then came the much respected Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving (1792-1834), the acknowledged forerunner of both the Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements. Irving pastored the large Chalcedonian Chapel in London with over 1,000 members. When Irving turned to the prophecies, he eventually accepted the one man Antichrist idea of Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine and Ribera, but he went a step further. Somewhere around 1830, Edward Irving began to teach the unique idea of a two phase return of Christ, the first phase being a secret rapture prior to the rise of the Antichrist. Where he got this idea is a matter of much dispute. Journalist Dave MacPherson believes Irving accepted it is a result of a prophetic revelation given to a young Scottish girl named Margaret McDonald. [11] The fact is in any case that Irving taught it!

In the midst of this growing anti-Protestant climate in England, there arose a man by the name of John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). As a brilliant lawyer, theologian and Pastor, he wrote more than 53 books on Bible subjects. A much respected Christian and a man of deep piety, Darby took a strong stand in favour of the infallibility of the Bible in contrast with the liberalism of his day. He became one of the leaders of a group in Plymouth, England, which became known as the Plymouth Brethren. Darby’s contribution to the development of evangelical theology has been so great that he has been called The Father of Modern Dispensationalism. Yet John Nelson Darby, like Edward Irving, also became a strong promoter of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture followed by a one man Antichrist. In fact, this teaching has become a hallmark of Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism is the theory that God deals with mankind in major dispensations or periods. According to Darby, we are now in the “Church Age,” that is, until the Rapture. After the Rapture, then the seven year period of Daniel 9:27 will supposedly kick in and this is when the Antichrist will rise up against the Jews. In fact, John Nelson Darby laid much of the foundation for the present popular removal of Daniel’s 70th week away from history and from Jesus Christ in favour of applying it to a future Tribulation after the Rapture. Hence, in spite of all the positives of his ministry, Darby followed Maitland, Todd, Bellarmine, and Ribera by incorporating the teachings of futurism into his theology. This created a link between John Nelson Darby, the Father of Dispensationalism and the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, the Father of futurism. Darby visited America six times between 1859-1874, preaching in all of its major cities, during which time he definitely planted the seeds of futurism in American soil. The child of the Jesuits was growing up.
From: http://www.futurist-futurism.com

So Darby adapted the false doctrine of the Jesuits in his formulation of pre-trib-dispensationalsm!

 

[OldRegular]

The Feast of Trumpets shows the Rapture! It is the next Great Event to be fulfilled of the Feast. The first 4 feast were literally fulfilled at Christ 1st advent the next three will be literally fulfilled in God's order. There was a gap between the fulfillment, just as there is a gap between the first four feast and the last three. Then another shorter period between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement, thus the Rapture with a short 7 year period of Tribulation leading to the Atonement that is the repentance of national Israel and then the Tabernacle will be with mankind in the form of Jesus in the 1000 year Kingdom.

The period of atonement leading to the (Day) of Atonement in which the Jewish people were to repent it will bring Israel:



Then the feast of the Tabernacle and thus the 1000 year kingdom, all beautifully showing how God's plan will be carried out for the Redemption of all mankind as well as His fulfillment of the promises to National Israel as His people.

That answers nothing!

 

[DHK]

Once will suffice! And please don't hide your response by bloviating endlessly!

Daniels prophecy was fulfilled COMPLETELY by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. The other stuff you pre-tribbers preach is explained in the following:

Your questions have been answered many times, perhaps more than a dozen if I go and gather them all up.
Here is what you said back in post #9

I have posted what Scripture shows to be true. On more than one occasion I have shown where each of those six conditions were accomplished through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Neither you or anyone else responded. So answer me this! Do you believe the following statement by an unnamed moderator from his post #70 on the thread, The Messianic Kingdom..

These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
I have taken the liberty of bolding the last statement.

You ask a lot of questions but answer none!

First, realize the context:
Daniel was praying to the Lord His God, and suddenly Gabriel (vs.21) appears to him.
Now in Dan.9:24-27 it is Gabriel speaking to Daniel.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city.
--The context is given here. The following phrases in the verse describe what will happen to the nation of Israel--"thy people" and "thy holy city," Jerusalem. To think otherwise is to take the Scripture out of its context.

Now the rest of the verse describes what will happen to Israel, and when will it take place. It will take place at the very beginning of the 70th week or at the very end of the 69th week, when Christ comes again. Why? That is when He is coming for the nation of the Israel, not for the Gentiles.

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

He is coming to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins.
--The Jews rejected their Messiah. It was the greatest sin they could have committed. They have been committing this sin ever since the first century, and since that time their sins have been increasing not decreasing. In fact Paul says specifically about the Jews:

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
--In the condition they are now, they treasure up wrath against the day of wrath which they shall give account of in the day of judgment.

to make reconciliation for iniquity,
--When he comes he will make reconciliation with the nation of Israel--the remnant that will still be living.
Rom.11:26--And so all Israel shall be saved.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
--At that time they will accept him as their Messiah.

to bring in everlasting righteousness,
--When the Jews do turn to Him as Messiah then Christ will bring in everlasting righteousness.
The verb cannot be ignored here. It gives no concept of imputing righteousness, or giving righteousness as pertaining to salvation.
He will bring it in. He will bring it in upon the entire world. It will be everlasting over all the world. He is the Prince of Peace, and both peace and righteousness will reign over all the earth, as the curse will be lifted and the earth will be restored to its edenic state.

to seal up the vision and prophecy,
--By that time all the prophesies concerning the Jews will now be fulfilled. They will be finished. Right now there are many unfulfilled prophesies. But then they will all be fulfilled.

to anoint the most Holy.
The most Holy is Christ himself. He will be anointed as King of kings and Lord of lords and will rule with a rod of iron from the throne of David in Jerusalem in His Kingdom for a thousand years, even as it tells us in Revelation 20. The Bible does not lie here. It is completely accurate and cannot be spiritualized.

Consider the last two verses briefly:

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The "he" of verse 27 must refer to the "prince which shall come" in verse 26. This has nothing to do with dispensationalism or one's theology. It is grammar. It is the direct antecedent of "he".
It is also history. The armies (of the prince) were the once that destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Now a foreigner will come. He will desecrate the Temple, and set himself as god. See Mat.25:15 and 2Thes.2. He is the man of sin, the beast of Rev.13. He will be destroyed in the end by God himself. These things have already been "determined."

 

[OldRegular]

Notice the portion in Red this has not yet happened and this supports Daniel 9:24 after those days what days the days in which the 70th week occurs, then the Lord will fulfill these events for the Jews He will have:



The new covenant will be established with Israel God's people, Daniel's people and God will be their God and will rule and reign over them. They will then have the custody of Scripture and the Gospel placed with them. Hebrews 8 makes that very clear. It shows us God is not through with Israel but will make a new covenant with them. Just as he has made the New Covenant of Grace with His church. The covenant of the Law was abolished by the covenant of Grace, but God will establish a covenant with Israel after the 70th week, that hasn't occurred and Verse 10 of chapter 8 makes that abundantly clear.

First "rm" I will correct the way in which you attributed the remarks of DHK, the unnamed moderator, to me. But then pre-tribbers do devious things like that!

The original comments by DHK came from his post #70 in the thread The Messianic Kingdom

Originally Posted by DHK

These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

Notice that in his last sentence DHK claims all six conditions are fulfilled during the reign of the dispensational anti-Christ.

This is the way you presented DHK's post. Attributing his blasphemous remarks to me!

Originally Posted by OldRegular


--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

That is one sorry piece of work 'rm'. I have come to expect that from DHK. I have been arguing endlessly that those six conditions were met through the sacrificial death which both you and DHK deny. DHK in the above quote attributes the fulfillment of those conditions to the anti-Christ. DFO YOU?

 

[revmwc]

First "rm" I will correct the way in which you attributed the remarks of DHK, the unnamed moderator, to me. But then pre-tribbers do devious things like that!

The original comments by DHK came from his post #70 in the thread The Messianic Kingdom



Notice that in his last sentence DHK claims all six conditions are fulfilled during the reign of the dispensational anti-Christ.

This is the way you presented DHK's post:



That is one sorry piece of work 'rm'. I have come to expect that from DHK. I have been arguing endlessly that those six conditions were met through the sacrificial death which both you and DHK deny. DHK in the above quote attributes the fulfillment of those conditions to the anti-Christ. DFO YOU?

Not sure what you are even talking about!

 

[OldRegular]

Notice the portion in Red this has not yet happened and this supports Daniel 9:24 after those days what days the days in which the 70th week occurs, then the Lord will fulfill these events for the Jews He will have:

So while the anti-Christ reigns those six conditions will be fulfilled. That is the same blasphemous nonsense DHK spews.

The new covenant will be established with Israel God's people, Daniel's people and God will be their God and will rule and reign over them. They will then have the custody of Scripture and the Gospel placed with them. Hebrews 8 makes that very clear. It shows us God is not through with Israel but will make a new covenant with them. Just as he has made the New Covenant of Grace with His church. The covenant of the Law was abolished by the covenant of Grace, but God will establish a covenant with Israel after the 70th week, that hasn't occurred and Verse 10 of chapter 8 makes that abundantly clear.

The New Covenant was established with the Church. If you don't believe that you are denying the Word of GOD!

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Once will suffice! And please don't hide your response by bloviating endlessly!



Daniels prophecy was fulfilled COMPLETELY by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. The other stuff you pre-tribbers preach is explained in the following:

Brother Oldregular,

Good thread you created! I believe you have conclusively proved your conclusions regarding Daniel's prophecies being fulfilled by Christ 2,000 years ago.:thumbsup:

Brother Joe

 

[revmwc]

Brother Oldregular,

Good thread you created! I believe you have conclusively proved your conclusions regarding Daniel's prophecies being fulfilled by Christ 2,000 years ago.:thumbsup:

Brother Joe

I don't see anything he proved to be correct, because all those things must have occurred for Israel so has Israel as a Nation repented?

 

[revmwc]

So while the anti-Christ reigns those six conditions will be fulfilled. That is the same blasphemous nonsense DHK spews.





The New Covenant was established with the Church. If you don't believe that you are denying the Word of GOD!

during the Tribulation it is quite clear, Revelation 12:6-17

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Israel is the woman, she flees to the wilderness in rejection of thebeast and anti-christ. She as a nation turns to God and He helps in her flight and HE helps to nourishes her for 3 1/2 years. So all these things God does for her and we see that while the beast and anti-christ are ruling the earth and seeking to war with the remnant of Israel who keep the commandments of God and have the Testimony of Christ that these things are fulfilled in her:

--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

Her transgression is finished, by God, an end of her sin of rejection comes, she is reconciled from her iniquity, she will be seen in everlasting righteousness, the visions and prophecies of the O.T. relating to her will be sealed and complete, the Holy of Holies will be anointed in the 1000 year Kingdom.

Over and over N.T. scripture verifies the fact that God will restore Israel, God will fulfill His promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in regards to the land.

 

[OldRegular]

Not sure what you are even talking about!

Then you are either lying or cannot read. I will present your post #28:

Originally Posted by OldRegular
revmwc

Why don't you answer the following questions I posed to the moderator?

Hebrews 8:8-13;
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the portion in Red this has not yet happened and this supports Daniel 9:24 after those days what days the days in which the 70th week occurs, then the Lord will fulfill these events for the Jews He will have:

Originally Posted by OldRegular


--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

The new covenant will be established with Israel God's people, Daniel's people and God will be their God and will rule and reign over them. They will then have the custody of Scripture and the Gospel placed with them. Hebrews 8 makes that very clear. It shows us God is not through with Israel but will make a new covenant with them. Just as he has made the New Covenant of Grace with His church. The covenant of the Law was abolished by the covenant of Grace, but God will establish a covenant with Israel after the 70th week, that hasn't occurred and Verse 10 of chapter 8 makes that abundantly clear.

You cannot be so simple minded that you do not recognize that you are attributing the remarks of DHK, which I consider blasphemous to me, OldRegular! Following are part of my comments where I attempted to explain to you what you were falsely accusing me of. But from your response above you do not really care! But again it seems that you are a loyal servant of DHK!

Originally Posted by OldRegular
The original comments by DHK came from his post #70 in the thread The Messianic Kingdom

Originally Posted by DHK

These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.

Notice that in his last sentence DHK claims all six conditions are fulfilled during the reign of the dispensational anti-Christ.