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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?4

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Jan 21, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Rom 8:32; Jn 3:16

    Rom 8:32

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    Jn 3:16

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


    If God gave His Son in Death for Some, then also with Him were given them , all things freely !

    Now what are these all things given freely with Him ? Lets read 2 Pet 1:3

    3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    The all things that accompany the giving of Christ to those He was given in behalf of, consiteth in,All things that pertaineth to Life[Spiritual] and Godliness !

    The first thing He gives them is Life Spiritually. When Christ was given, to those He was given in behalf of, to them also is freely given Life, Spiritual. Jn 6:33

    33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life[Spiritual] unto the world.

    Jn 5:21

    21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

    That word quickeneth is zōopoieō:


    to produce alive, begat or bear living young

    2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

    1 Cor 15:45

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening[life giving] spirit.

    All whom God gave Christ unto in Death, with Him, Gives them Life, to cause to be made alive unto God !

    He gave them Justification of Life Rom 5:18

    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    Next,He gives them Godly Repentance unto Salvation 2 Cor 7:9-10

    9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

    10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    That word godly is key. Godly Repentance accompanies Salvation, it accompanies Spiritual Life out of the Spirit of God.

    Christ gives Repentance as Saviour Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    This confirms that with Him, God gives all things. Repentance to Life Acts 11:18

    18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

    He also with Him gives them Faith to believe in Him. Phil 1:29

    29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    There can be no godliness without Faith. For the Just [Justified] shall live by Faith All these are things that accompany Salvation, which is all in the giving of Christ Heb 6:9

    9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

    If Faith, Godly Repentance, are not sooner or later manifested in our lives, then there is no evidence or proof that Christ died or was given for us, as in Rom 8:32 and John 3:16, because with Him is also given all things that pertain to Life and Godliness for the Glory of God through Him !12
     
  2. Campion

    Campion Member

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    Enjoy. Sometimes it takes satire to point out ridiculousness...

     
  3. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Of course, the cartoons presented by Campion are nothing less than a feeble attempt to malign the doctrines of grace by presenting arguments which have no basis of scriptural truth. Rather than refute the actual beliefs held by those who confess these doctrines, Campion and those of his ilk must pervert, twist and distort them in order to mock the alleged ‘logic’ of these doctrines.

    I now quote from Catholic Answers an Apologetic website which defends Roman Catholicism:

    “The nature of God’s love in the Old and New Testament is the same. God knew us before we were made; he knows everything about us; he cares for us like a father for his child or a shepherd for his sheep. This love is perfect: selfless, unconditional, aimed at the good of man despite his sinfulness and unbelief. God loves man because God is love. That is powerful love.”

    It is a biblical truth stated in the first sentence of the above quoted passage. God is immutable. Using this truth as my basis, I will now prove the extent of God’s saving gracious love is not what Campion’s religion proclaims.

    For God so loved the world that He drowned every elderly, disabled, retarded man and woman, every toddler, infant, newborn and even those still in the womb, with the exception of Noah and his family.

    For God so loved the world that He commanded the Israelites to utterly destroy everyone that breathes, leaving none alive, namely the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites (Deuteronomy 20:17).

    These are just a few examples which Campion and his religious confederates must consider before demonizing those who consider the whole scope of Scripture before developing a doctrine.
     
  4. Campion

    Campion Member

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    It's always fun when the Westboro folks show up. Here's some more satire to point out the ridiculousness...

     
  5. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    If Campion had done rudimentary research before recommending the Lutheran Satires, he would have discovered the author of the cartoons, Hans Fiene, is a Lutheran pastor, whose Lutheran Church is a member of the Missouri Synod.

    Among their doctrinal positions is that OF THE ANTICHRIST. In it we find they firmly, unhesitatingly believe that which ALL Protestants (regardless of denomination) believed prior to the Religiously Correct Movement of the 20th century: The Pope of Rome is the fulfillment of the Antichrist who was to come prior to the Second (and only) Coming of Christ.

    What say you now, Campion? The pastor whose works you praise considers you under the yolk of Antichrist, a willing member of anti-Christianity.

    Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod. Adopted 1932 (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, N.D.)

    “As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion.

    "All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of God," 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone, without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20-28; Gal. 2:16);

    “that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through the Reformation — these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf. Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39-41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.)

    “Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist." (Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.)”

    [I take exception to the statement “til God revealed him through the Reformation.” In fact, God revealed him to multitudes of ancient Christians, after the first millennium, at which time the papal Antichrist reached maturity and domination. These truths are contained in the official records of the Inquisitions for centuries.]

    What say you now, Campion?
     
  6. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    He is the Author of our Salvation/ Obedience !


    For all whom He died, Christ is the Author of their Salvation, thats why they are obeying Him Heb 5:9

    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey[or are obeying] him;

    And so He is the Author of their Faith Heb 12:2

    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    He is the Author of the Obedience of Faith, like with Abraham the Father of the Faithful Heb 11:8

    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    Christ is the Author of Abraham's obedience of Faith here !

    So Christ, for everyone He died, is the Author, the Causer of their Conversion experience whereby they begin to live by obedient faith, as does all the seed of Abraham Heb 11:8 all the True Heirs are called the same way Heb 9:15

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Understand, that Both in Heb 11:8 and Heb 9:15 its a Divine Call unto the same Eternal Inheritance. The Eternal Inheritance in Heb 9:15 is the equivalent to the Everlasting Canaan Land that was Promised Abraham and his seed here Gen 17:5-8

    5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

    6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

    7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

    8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

    The promise Eternal Inheritance was not given to Abraham and his physical seed ethnic isreal, but to Abraham as an Spiritual man of Faith and his Spiritual seed of Faith, comprised of men and women of all Nations Vs 5. Abraham's physical seed was only a type and shadow, His True descendants related to him in regards to this promise is through His spiritual seed Christ and all who belong to Him Gal 3:16,29

    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    And all of this seed of promise, have Christ as the Author of their Salvation and Obedience of Faith !
     
  7. Campion

    Campion Member

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    First you endorse the papist antichrist's commandment-following doctrine (faith alone out the window!). Then you come back and parrot Westboro Baptist stuff. Now here you are bashing the papist antichrist whose commandment-keeping doctrine you previously ascribed to!

    Make up your mind!

    Are you a papist follower or not???
     
  8. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    This is the typical way papists --- particularly Jesuitical papists --- conduct serious debates.

    Campion firsts postulates a theological position: faith + works is necessary for justification.

    I then respond using Scripture alone – even his favorite Bible version --- to refute his unbiblical position. It is a short, concise and unambiguous answer. Justification is through faith in the infinite merits of Christ alone. However, the faith which justifies will soon bring forth the fruits of justification – the good works in Christ for which we were created in the first place. Thus, faith which justifies will not be alone forever because good works will soon follow.

    He then reverts to a confusing, convoluted response, similar to the garbled responses given by our President who suffers from cognitive impairment.

    I respond admitting the impossibility of answering a response with its torturous meanderings.

    Instead, I proved his religion worships the same god as do the Muslims, according to the authority of their official Catechism # 841.

    On the other hand, we Christians do not worship Allah; we worship God in Christ. Therefore, this is yet another reason why Catholicism is not Christian.

    Unable to respond, Campion decides to switch gears. He will mock the doctrines of grace by linking to a cartoon which in no way presents the truth of these doctrines. But the truth matters not to Campion.

    I then quote a truth from Catholic Answers.com, asking him to square this biblical truth --- the nature of God does not change from Old to New Testament --- with the truth of God drowning all mankind, with the exception of 8 persons. I also cited Scripture (Deut. 20:17) which relates God’s charge to the Israelites to exterminate several tribes, leaving none alive. How does he explain this love which God has for all the world?

    Of course, Campion had no answer. So, once again, he is forced to switch gears, and bring in another satirical video aimed at mocking certain biblical truths with an uneven, biased and imbalanced approach.

    I then proceed to inform him of the cartoon author’s official stance….. the Pope of Rome is the very Antichrist prophesied in Scripture.

    Thus, Campion was using, as his infallible source of truth, a pastor who views Campion as the enemy of Christ doomed to perdition, since he is a fervent papist.

    Of course, Campion had no answer. So, once again, he simply ignores the embarrassment he has caused himself due to his own miscalculation.

    Instead of quietly going away, humiliated, Campion has now decided to ‘turn the tables’ on his opponent. By disregarding all the biblical responses made by his opponent, Campion hopes the readers will ‘forget’ how he has twisted and perverted my responses in the past; and how he continually refuses to respond to Bible truth, choosing instead to introduce absurdity, fiction and outright lies by presuming I have a papist heart hidden somewhere inside my Protestant Calvinist Historicist soul.

    This is the classic definition of ‘desperation.’
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Redeemed unto Service !

    Not only did Christ's Blood alone redeem us from all Iniquity if He died for us Titus 2:14

    14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

    But its also responsible for providing us a life of Good Works and or Spiritual Service unto God, Titus 2:14; Eph 2:10

    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Rom 5:9-10

    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.12

    Being made a Kingdom of Priests [Spiritual Service] denotes God Glorifying Works of Service, again Spiritual Services.

    1 Pet 2:5

    Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
     
  10. Campion

    Campion Member

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    It’s hard to keep up with all your flip flopping. First you endorse the papist commandment-keeping (what about faith alone???!!!). Then next thing I know you are bashing your papism. Make up your mind and pick a team!

    Here’s some more satire to point out the ridiculousness…



    P.S. I love how you have “Iconbusters” written right across your…icon!
     
    #30 Campion, Feb 13, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It gives the Victory !

    1 Cor 15:57

    But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    All for whom Christ died, He causes them to be overcomer's, they are the overcomer's.

    The word victory nikos:

    to utterly vanquish

    Its also connected with the word nikaō:


    to conquer

    a) to carry off the victory, come off victorious

    1) of Christ, victorious over all His foes

    2) of Christians, that hold fast their faith even unto death against the power of their foes, and temptations and persecutions

    3) when one is arraigned or goes to law, to win the case, maintain one's cause

    Since Christ by His Death was victorious over all His Foes, its the same as they were since He was and is the Head of them He died for. His Victorious Death was not for Him as a Private Individual, so His Victory or Overcoming is not for Him as an Private Individual.

    So scriptures like these where the word overcome is used as here Rev 2:7

    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    That applies to them He died for, they overcome by Him 1 Cor 15:57

    57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory/overcoming through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Rev 2:11

    11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

    He has abolished Death for all whom He died !2 Tim 1:9-10

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    Rev 2:17

    17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    God has already with Him given us all things Rom 8:31-32

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    He gives us with Christ, if He died for us, the Victory and all the overcoming Promises we have rehearsed in Rev 2-3 !
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It makes alive !

    Many in false religion deny the life giving effects of Christ's Death, unto all for whom He died. For simply put, He died in order for them to live unto God ! 2 Cor 5:14-15

    14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

    15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

    Here we have a Truth given that Christ died for all, that He died for, gave His life for Eph 5:25, but what is seriously neglected, is that by His Death for all, its concluded, that all died with Him, meaning, that in His Death for them, God legally declares that they have died too in His Death. Now understand this, its this Truth that exposes the false teaching of those who say that Christ's Death was merely a sacrifice for sin, for that is only a half truth, but not only was it that, it was also substitutionary, vicarious, in that in Him, all for whom He died, died as a result of God's law and Justice against their sins, being now satisfied against their persons, as it was satisfied in His Person. Its like saying that through Him, they have all personally paid the penalty of all their sins, past, present and future, and now its nothing left for them but to be given a New Life, to start afresh, which New Life is granted by New Birth, becoming a New Creation, so it comes into fruition as to the purpose Christ died for them, that they may live [spiritually] not unto themselves, but for Him that, for their sakes, and in their stead, died and was raised.Its by this Resurrection they are begotten again unto a New Life. 1 Pet 1:3. The word begotten again in the original is anagennao and means:


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    This New Life is Granted because that old life of sin against God's law and Justice is dead, and so Paul writes here Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    They have died to the Law by the Body of Christ [His Vicarious Death],to the same thing in 2 Cor 5:14, that they should be married to another [The Son of God] or not to live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them and rose again !

    Peter also writes to the purport as the result of His Death 1 Pet 2:24

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness[ By a New Life]: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Christ's Death accomplished this New Life for all whom He died, it makes them alive to God.

    Rom 6:11

    Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Forgiven to make alive !

    Col 2:13-14

    13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    Who is it that hath been quickened ? Why its them only who has been forgiven of all their trespasses;Yes thats right, for they were not quickened to have their trespasses forgiven, but since they were already forgiven, they had to be quickened or made to live or made alive !

    Now how and when were they forgiven, why it was at the Cross, where Christ was victorious over their sins and the law, where He made a show of them openly, of which they can never be charged against us or Him again, neither can they condemn us or Him again, and this goes for all transgressions, past, present and future, and so it behooves Christ as their Saviour to give unto them He died for, a communication of the Knowledge of the remission of their sins Lk 1:7712

    77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

    Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Accomplishments of Christ's Death for those He died for!

    When we have been given a good understanding of the scripture by the Author of it, the Holy Spirit, who is promised to Christ's Redeemed Church, and promised to lead it [every member of it] into all Truth relevant for Faith and Practice Jn 16:13; 1 Jn 2:20,27, then that Christ did not lay down His Life for all men without exception, but for the Sheep Jn 10:11-15, it is clearly obvious by realizing the accomplishments and effects it gives and bestows upon them He surely died in behalf of, now understand this ye who are against Christ, all them Christ died for, tasted death for Heb 2:9, He offered Himself as a sacrifice for, for His Death, an one offering for their sins, and by this fact we shall know that it was not an offering for all men without exception, because all for whom this sacrifice was offered, are sanctified and perfected by it in God's Reckoning Heb 10:10,14, also having through it Justification from or remission of all sins, and also by this sacrifice, their sins and iniquities will never be remembered again in a manner of condemnation and eternal judgment, but that this is not true of all individuals without exception is evident from these scenarios yet imminent Matt 25:41; Rev 20:11-15 13
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Sanctification inwardly !

    Heb 13:12

    12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

    All for whom Christ died, by it [ His Death] it was to provide a inward sanctification as well, not only are they sanctified in the Divine Purpose of God as was Jeremiah 1:5

    5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    BTW this sanctification applies to all the foreknown People of God Rom 11:2; Rom 8:29, but His Death communicates an inward sanctification which is consistent with the sanctification in His Purpose, hence by His Blood / Death, all for whom He died has their conscious purged from dead works, to serve the Living God Heb 9:14

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Notice what the Blood of Christ is said to do, to purge our conscience. The word purge is the word καθαρίζω and means:


    I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.

    And the word conscience suneidésis:

    the conscience, a persisting notion.

    properly, joint-knowing, i.e. conscience which joins moral and spiritual consciousness as part of being created in the divine image. Accordingly, all people have this God-given capacity to know right from wrong because each is a free moral agent

    The conscience is part of the inward man, and the blood of Christ is said to cleanse it.

    Cleanse it from what ? Dead Works ! What are Dead Works ? Religious works performed by dead men, dead spiritually ! Its religion without God given Faith. Its not worshiping God in Spirit and in Truth as Per Jn 4:23-24

    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Well, Christ's Blood provides God with those type of worshippers that God the Father seeketh such to Worship Him!

    The Blood of Christ sets apart God's People experientially, from dead men religion which is Idolatry. It redeems them from a vain religious life received by tradition of our fathers 1 Pet 1:18-19

    18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

    19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

    Thats dead works also of Heb 9:14 this vain[devoid of truth] conversation received by tradition.

    Now understand this, if each person for whom Christ died, shed His Blood, does not experience this conversion, this Sanctification from dead works, unto serving [worship] of the True and Living God, then His Blood has lost its Value and Purpose, it has miserably failed the Divine Purpose !

    But I know that it will, to the Glory of God !
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    All for whom Christ died and rose again, all of them by the purpose of God, did exist in Him by Purpose and Representation, even when He sat down in heavenly places as Per Eph 2:6

    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    This even though they in and of themselves may not have yet been born sinners in the flesh and then afterwards been born again, none of that has to occur for them to be risen together with Christ. In fact the Resurrection of Christ from the dead was their First Resurrection Rev 20:6

    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    The first resurrection, or the chief one is that of Christ Himself from the dead as the Head of the Body, His Church Col 1:18

    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Notice that this Resurrection constitutes them Priests of God, notice 1 Pet 2:9

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    And remember that these were those who had been begotten again how ? By the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It makes them Rich !

    2 Cor 8:9

    9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that or in order that ye through his poverty might be rich.

    This is an express purpose of His Death, or His becoming poor [Phil 2:5-8] it makes those He died for become Rich [spiritually], which richness is the source of their Faith
    James 2:5

    5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

    The poor in spirit become rich in Faith, because Christ was made poor for their sakes. The poor in spirit are heirs also stated here Matt 5:3

    3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    That chosen poor that become rich in Faith are the Chosen of God here Eph 1:3-4


    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Being poor in spirit is one of the many spiritual blessings they get according to their choice in Christ !

    So Christ died that those He died for might be made rich in Faith because they are joint heirs together with Him of God !
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It makes them alive !

    All for whom Christ died and rose again, they are already made alive with Him, being made alive together with Him their Head, even though they in themselves are sinners and His enemies by nature. That this is so is taught here Eph 2:6

    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    The word raised here is the greek verb synegeirō:

    to raise together, to cause to raise together

    2) to raise up together from mortal death to a new and blessed life dedicated to God

    Now this is True of all for whom Christ died for and rose again in God's Perspective !

    This was also stated in the OT in type here Isa 26:19


    19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

    Hos 6:2

    2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

    This speaks of those that Christ died for and arose the Third day. 1 Cor 15:3-4

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    For instance, when Saul, who is now Paul, when he was going about persecuting Believers and consenting to their death, he was already, raised up together with Christ and sitting in heavenly places with Him ! This is True of all those Christ died for while in a state of Nature. This is Grace untold, and a Truth like this cannot be received by the natural man, its foolishness to him.
     
  19. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Blessings of Christ's Death before we believe !

    For whomever Christ did die for, the following is True of them no matter what, either before and after conversion, meaning before and after they become believers !

    First, its True that He indeed died for them, both in their stead as a substitute and on their behalf, or for their good 1 Pet 2:24

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins[By His Death for us], should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Secondly, For all whom He died, He also arose, because of their Justification Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[Because of] our justification.

    Many do celebrate easter , supposedly commemorating the Lords Resurrection, but very few understand the True significance of that Blessed Event, for it was the evidence that all for whom Christ was delivered for their offences, that they are now Justified before God ! Yes, even before they believe !

    Thirdly, For them, He sits on the Right Hand of God !

    Fourthly, He makes intercession for them, and all this is witnessed to by the Apostle here Rom 8:33-34

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again[For our Justification], who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    This making Intercession, Isaiah wrote of the same Isa 53:12

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    You see that ? He made Intercession, not for the believers, but for the transgressors, those He bare their the sins, the many ! Any Transgressor Christ makes Intercession for shall be saved by His Life, shall come to God by Him Heb 7:25

    25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

    Isaiah's here by prophecy is speaking of Christ's Priestly Work for those only that He Represented, the Israel of God, and this Work Justifies them before God or accounts them as Righteous, Yes even before they believe, because its not based upon their believing, but upon Christ bearing their sins !

    Notice how Isaiah under inspiration of the same Spirit as Paul, did link together, the bearing of sins, and the making of Intercession, in either case this is Priestly Work done by Christ for those He died for before they believe ! 13
     
    #39 Brightfame52, Feb 23, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
  20. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Accomplished by Christ's Blood alone !

    By Christ's Blood alone, all for whom He died have, even before they are born sinners, and after being born sinners but not yet believers in Christ, in fact, while they are His Enemies by nature, they all have by the Blood of Christ alone: Reconciliation, Redemption, Remission / Forgiveness of sins, Justification, and these are all in a scriptural sense the same, and the result of the Death or Blood of Christ alone.

    Eph 1:7

    In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    To say we have Redemption through His Blood, and even the forgiveness of sins, is the same as saying we have Reconciliation or even Justification through His Blood.

    Understand, to say that we were Reconciled to God by Christ,s Death, while being Enemies Rom 5:10, is no less or different in saying that we are Justified or have forgiveness of sins while being enemies, by or through His Death !
     
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