Theology doesn't save. God saves, by His Redeeming Grace.
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The Baptism with the Holy Ghost
- Thread starter Darrell C
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There are good and solid teachers/pastors who hold to gifts of the Holy Spirit still in operation, my main beef are with those who hold to all of the sign gifts still operate, additional revelations from modern day Apostles and prophets still arriving from God.I would hope discerning men and women of God have righteous indignation towards those who spread a counterfeit Gospel. But your sentiments could be equally said from continuationists towards cessationists
The word of faith, Dominion, prosperity fridge of Charismatic Chaoes.
That is not entirely accurate. Many Charismatics understand salvation in Christ is only possible through faith in Christ.
That they are in error on other doctrines doesn't mean they cannot be used of God to convey the Gospel.
I would rather see somebody preaching Christ crucified and babbling their head off in their spare time than see some one teaching men are regenerated in order to have faith.
Both of these show an ignorance of the Bible.
And the question is, when people are given irrefutable statements...why do they reject them in favor of the doctrines of men?
God bless.
Felipe Rios
Member
Amen to that. I wish more Christians would understand what happened on the day of Pentecost.
Acts 10:38
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil , for God was with Him.
I would say Pentecost demonstrated what is available to ALL Believers--as Christ proved it for us--which was made available only for a select few in the OT.
Felipe Rios
Member
I read all your replies. Great explanation. That is the way I see the scriptures and the way I have been taught. However, sometimes I have a hard time relaying it. Do you have any writings on this topic you can send me?
I know there are several books written by good men who defend the same position I hold, but I can't give you, off the top of my head, the names of authors or titles.
I don't formulate my doctrine on what men say, but on a personal, exegetical, expository, critical study of the scriptures. And that is what I recommend for everyone who wants to know the truth, "study zealously to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who needs not be ashamed, rightly understanding the word of Truth."
True, but one must hold to the right jesus to save them, is that not theology?
Again, i am speaking towards the group with Charasmatic circles that are teaching heresy, and are being used to divide up the Body of Christ, as they have crept in among many churches!
How about those in Charasmatic churches that teach that jesus died as a sinner, and had to be born again in hell?
Who deny the trinity, or is either into Modualism or else Jesus is all 3 Persons at same time?
That is the purpose of this thread. And if you agree with TCassidy you are pointing your finger at yourself, along with those Christians you think need a better understanding.
TCassidy teaches...
Christ teaches...
John 14:15-18
King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Few would argue that the Spirit coming at Pentecost fulfills the prophecy given by Christ here, it would be pointless to do so. And what we see is that the coming of the Spirit is said to be us in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and He in us.
The distinction TCassidy makes is not Scriptural, it is an attempt to support the doctrines he has so long held. Where those doctrines come from, I know not, but where they do not come from, I do. They do not come from the teachings of Christ or the Apostles.
God bless.
Not really interested, Yeshua1, this thread is to look at the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. And the sad fact is that most Protestant and Evangelical groups teach the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as a subsequent event of empowerment, so we find all groups equally in error.
Why don't you speak on that, and start a thread of your own to discuss the mote you see in the eyes of charismatics.
God bless.
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How about "I was trained as a teaching Elder in the AOG, and know very well what is acceptable and heretical doctrines with the Charasmatic churches?"
But lets continue on with the OP, and I promise not to derail this any further Brother!
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And I will have to check in at a later time, as I am out of time now. Read the thread, and address the Scriptures that are given, and the points given.
One issue I would like to look at in more detail is TCassidy's statement...
Few would argue that Cornelius was indwelt eternally when he was saved, and Peter calls it the Baptism with the Holy Ghost:
Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
So think about this, my friend, and I will see you at the next appointed time, God willing.
Hope you and everyone here has a blessed day in the Lord.
God bless.
The Holy Spirit fall upon and indwelt them when they heard about Jesus, and the speaking in tongues was the sign to the jewish Apostles that even gentiles were to be saved by Jesus now!
You make the same mistake another member made: Peter does not even mention speaking in tongues in the quoted passage:
Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
That is the problem with indoctrination, one is blinded to reading a passage and allowing God to reveal the truths found there. Too busy trying to make the passage conform to personal theology.
What we see in this is:
1. Peter spoke the words by which they were saved, and we can look in Acts 10 and see Peter preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ;
2. Based on point 1. we can say that men are saved through the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ;
3. We see "the Holy Ghost fell on them" just as it did the Disciples "at the beginning," which is Pentecost, because that is when they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost;
4. We see that Peter defines "the Holy Ghost falling on them" as being Baptized with the Holy Ghost;
5. We see that God gave them, the Gentiles, the same Gift as He gave to the Jews (who is the group Peter is speaking to in this recounting of Cornelius' conversion);
6. We see the Gift is given by believing in the Gospel of Christ, believing in Jesus Christ;
7. We see that repentance unto life is something granted by God (to those who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ);
8. We see that it is life that is given;
9. We see that we receive life when we are Baptized with the Holy Ghost;
10. We see the receiving of the Spirit is the same thing as being Baptized with the Holy Ghost, and that this occurs at the time of our conversion, which takes place when we believe the Gospel and turn to Christ in faith.
But what we don't see is Peter mentioning speaking in tongues, thus it is not accounted as something that contributed to Cornelius' salvation in Christ.
God bless.
God gave to the Apsotles at pentacost the tongues, and he also gave them to the Gentiles and the Samitans in Acts to allow the jews to see and hear that God had brought both of those groups now under Jesus to get saved. That was just for Acts, as that was the start of the NT Church, for us today, no more tongues are given as a sign to anyone.
First, you ignored the entire point of the post you responded to, which showed that Peter does not even mention tongues in the passage quoted, which also show the insignificance of tongues in relation to salvation in Christ.
Secondly, that you persist in rambling about tongues evidences that you are not all that interested in understanding how men are saved, but would rather spend your time pointing fingers at other people. You need to question your heart on that.
Third, I have heard enough accounts of missionaries in the field (and I am talking about missionaries sent out by fellowships I have been a member of as well) who preached the Gospel (and just so you know that is the good news about what Jesus Christ has done and accomplished) and were understood by people who did not speak English not to take a position that the Gift of Languages is never employed by God anymore. Perhaps the stories are untrue, but, it is enough for me not to deny it still happens.
Why do you ignore the Scripture and the points of the posts you respond to?
God bless.
My point was that God did used the gift of tongues given to the Gentiles and Samaritans that they were also saved Jesus, as the Jews could not refute that evidence!
And God can still use the gift of tongues if He needs to even today out on the Mission field, its just that they will be actual languages he gives the missionaries to proclaim the message of Jesus to them, not the See my tie really fast many charismatics trained to say!
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