The Best Wine

[James_Newman]

at the last, brother, at the last.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

*sigh* Another handful of verses plucked to support a personal conviction. When will you people learn...

I'm going to teach my son what the Bible says about drinking...and it's not the same legalistic thing I was taught growing up...but the truth. I'm afraid you are the one in bondage, as my Bible doesn't state drinking is a sin, but addiction and drunkeness are.

Then you are either reading the wrong Bible, or you are not reading your Bible right.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Wow! bizarre posts about wine ...use common sense and history

Where throughout history do you find grape tasters or connoisseurs of grape juice non fermented...none...nada...zero...zilch but throughout history even till today you have wine connoisseurs and wine tasting to press out the quality and give out awards....the best wine ever made was at the wedding of Cana, if that wine was here today it would win every award known to wine.

***Picture removed because it exceeded BB standard***

And such was the case at the wedding of Cana those who knew wine
and in charge of the wedding feast and drink ...were well aware of quality and they were amazed at how the best was saved for last and how great of quality it was.

Thank you Holy Spirit for helping me and the common sense of it all

sincerely
Aslanspal

 

[DHK]

Where throughout history do you find grape tasters or connoisseurs of grape juice non fermented...none...nada...zero...zilch
Thank you Holy Spirit for helping me and the common sense of it all

sincerely
Aslanspal

Your common sense is not so common. In fact it is foolishness. Perhaps you have not researched the topic well enough. You assume too much. Do you know this as a fact or are you just guessing?
We know for a fact that there are many other non-alcoholic beverages that are tested for their quality. There are coffee connoisseurs as you may put it. And the same would hold true for tea.
I am sure that there are many here, without looking at any label whatsoever, can tell the difference between a cup of instant coffee, a cup of no-name coffee, and a fresh cup of gourmet coffee. I know that I can.
My wife can tell you the difference between some types of tea without looking.

Someone on the board already attested to the fact how delicious a cup of freshly squeezed grape juice far outweighed (in taste and quality) any grape juice that you would buy at your local grocery store. Your logic is nonsense. And to attribute it to the Holy Spirit is almost blasphemous. A debate on the different qualities of grape juice or wine has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. I suggest you keep your pious religiousity to yourself.
DHK

 

[gb93433]

Christians ought to be ashamed to be teaching their children that its ok to ignore wisdom from the bible in the name of 'liberty' which is really bondage. At the last, it biteth like a serpent and thine eyes shall behold strange women and thine heart utter perverse things.

My parents were grape farmers and we had wine around all the time given to us by the winery. It seldom ever got pulled out unless someone came over to visit.

When I was a kid, us kids would take a sip and look at each other and wonder how anyone could like that stuff. We named it rot gut. None of use kids have wine in our homes and not all of us are Christians. None of us even like the stuff. I have found that the quickest way to cure a child of their curiosity is to tell them you will get them some if they want to know what it tastes like. The answer is always that they are no longer curious.

Kids tell kids about how much fun getting drunk is, but if I can take care of the curiosity at home it is much better. A few years ago I took my daughter to a bad part of town where people regualrly drink in front of their homes and let her see for herself what drunks look like and how they live. My wife works in a hospital and has told her what happens to those who drink too much. We do not talk about the perils of drinking as though it were such a taboo but we give her the facts. We have also taken our daughter and put it down on paper to show how much money a smoker spends, how much life insurance costs, and what she could buy with that over a lifetime. It is an amazing amount of money. When she saw the dolar value she said "Wow!" We have also taken her with us knocking on doors and she has seen how people live who smoke and drink. What better way is there than to introduce your kids to God work than to see what happens inside of homes as you share your faith?

Just a few weeks ago my daughter asked what a hangover was. We told her that we had never experienced one but told her what we thought happened. She then followed that up with. "Why would anyone want a hangover?" I also told her about the time I had a student who did not return to school because he choked ion his own vomit at a party.

Isn't it ironic that the place where I have seen the most number of Baptists with wine in their homes is the same place where it is often preached against the most?

 

[gb93433]

I am sure that there are many here, without looking at any label whatsoever, can tell the difference between a cup of instant coffee, a cup of no-name coffee, and a fresh cup of gourmet coffee. I know that I can.
My wife can tell you the difference between some types of tea without looking.

DHK

Obviously one generation's taboo is another generations liking.

Charles Finney labelled people who drink coffee and tea as basically druggies. His preaching clearly indicated it was unnecessary and of no value. He preached against it as sin.

 

[gb93433]

Then you are either reading the wrong Bible, or you are not reading your Bible right.

So are you saying that Jesus never drank wine?

 

[DeeJay]

Obviously one generation's taboo is another generations liking.

Charles Finney labelled people who drink coffee and tea as basically druggies. His preaching clearly indicated it was unnecessary and of no value. He preached against it as sin.

That is true. Come here to Utah and be judged for the "sin" of drinking coffee, just like some here like to judge others for drinking wine. And both the people here and the mormons are judging for the same reason. They like to feel more righoutous then others. It is an ego boost to them to think they are doing better then others.

They can have their ego. I will continue to follow my Lord.

 

[gb93433]

That is true. Come here to Utah and be judged for the "sin" of drinking coffee, just like some here like to judge others for drinking wine. And both the people here and the mormons are judging for the same reason. They like to feel more righoutous then others. It is an ego boost to them to think they are doing better then others.

They can have their ego. I will continue to follow my Lord.

Absolutely. Isn't that what really matters?

 

[corndogggy]

That is true. Come here to Utah and be judged for the "sin" of drinking coffee

Might as well... the beer you guys have there isn't strong enough. :thumbs:

 

[DHK]

Might as well... the beer you guys have there isn't strong enough. :thumbs:

Of course they have no Biblical precedent to do so. The Mormons don't take their theology primarily from the Bible. They have other books that are just as "inspired" as the Bible. So the comparison is foolishness. Caffeine is found in many products. There is more caffeine in some brands of Mountain Dew than in most teas. Are those restricted, and in instant coffees? Are those restricted?

Caffeine or its consequent products of tea and coffee have no symbolic importance in the Bible. Fermented wine and leavened bread do. The symbolize sin, corruption and false doctrine. Those are reasons that Jesus would have never created fermented wine, nor is fermented wine used in the Lord's Table or the Passover. To symbolize the body of sin with the symbol of sin and corruption is blasphemous. Caffeine doesn't do that; but leaven does. Some here need to study their Bibles.
DHK

 

[corndogggy]

I spent like 4 days snowboarding around the Salt Lake City about 4 years ago... wow what a strange experience. I must say though, those Mormon buildings are beautiful.

I just thought it was amusing that you could order a Guinness and it seemed to have the same strength as carbonated water. Me and my buddies snowboarded all day long in Park City then went to a pizza joint and ordered a pitcher and had a pint apiece while we were waiting... even with an empty stomach and low blood sugar it had no effect at all, we were laughing about it. The ironic part was that you could order straight hard liquor at full strength, that's beyond silly in my opinion. I think they've got their priorities a little mixed up if you ask me.

 

[DeeJay]

Of course they have no Biblical precedent to do so. The Mormons don't take their theology primarily from the Bible. They have other books that are just as "inspired" as the Bible. So the comparison is foolishness. Caffeine is found in many products. There is more caffeine in some brands of Mountain Dew than in most teas. Are those restricted, and in instant coffees? Are those restricted?

Caffeine or its consequent products of tea and coffee have no symbolic importance in the Bible. Fermented wine and leavened bread do. The symbolize sin, corruption and false doctrine. Those are reasons that Jesus would have never created fermented wine, nor is fermented wine used in the Lord's Table or the Passover. To symbolize the body of sin with the symbol of sin and corruption is blasphemous. Caffeine doesn't do that; but leaven does. Some here need to study their Bibles.
DHK

First Mormons make not distinction between brewd coffee and instant so yes instant is restricted. Second the arguments between Mormons arguing wether to drink Mountain Dew or not to drink MD sound exactly like alcohol threads here. EXACTLY.

Mormons say they are useing the Bible to justify no caffeen they call it a drug. They sound like you. They misinterpret the Bible to make their point, just like you.

I have said this a thousand times. WINE THAT IS FULLY FERMENTED HAS NO LEAVEN. FRESH GRAPE JUICE HAS LEAVEN. You have it backwards. Your understanding of the importance of the symbolism of leaven does you no good with out knowlege of what contains leaven.

 

[DeeJay]

I spent like 4 days snowboarding around the Salt Lake City about 4 years ago... wow what a strange experience. I must say though, those Mormon buildings are beautiful.

I just thought it was amusing that you could order a Guinness and it seemed to have the same strength as carbonated water. Me and my buddies snowboarded all day long in Park City then went to a pizza joint and ordered a pitcher and had a pint apiece while we were waiting... even with an empty stomach and low blood sugar it had no effect at all, we were laughing about it. The ironic part was that you could order straight hard liquor at full strength, that's beyond silly in my opinion. I think they've got their priorities a little mixed up if you ask me.

I actualy prefere my beer at 3.2 percent. I also make my own at between 3.5 and 4 %. It is not that different because it is by Volume. A six pack of Utah 3.2 Beer would equall a 5 pack of Colorado 5.% beer.

Next time let me know when you are coming. I have an extra bed in the basement you can stay for free. Save a little money. I only backcountry ski, I have a thing about paying for stuff I can hike into for free. But if you rent a split board or pack you board on snow shoes I can show you some places where you get the mountain to yourself.

You can get beer full strength if you buy it from the state run liquor store. The reason for the beer at 3.2 is that is the highest amount of alcohol allowed to be sold in grocery stores. All distealed liquor and full strength beer must come from the state owned and ran store. The liquor at the bar was bought from the state.

 

[corndogggy]

I actualy prefere my beer at 3.2 percent. I also make my own at between 3.5 and 4 %. It is not that different because it is by Volume. A six pack of Utah 3.2 Beer would equall a 5 pack of Colorado 5.% beer.

I prefer mine a little stronger then drink a smaller amount. Speaking of Colorado, Breckenridge Brewery makes my favoritest two brews ever:

http://www.breckenridgebrewery.com/beer/pale.html

http://www.breckenridgebrewery.com/beer/vanillaporter.html

At $9 a 6-pack... well... I stretch it out for more than one reason.

 

[DeeJay]

I prefer mine a little stronger then drink a smaller amount. Speaking of Colorado, Breckenridge Brewery makes my favoritest two brews ever:

http://www.breckenridgebrewery.com/beer/pale.html

http://www.breckenridgebrewery.com/beer/vanillaporter.html

At $9 a 6-pack... well... I stretch it out for more than one reason.

I have had Breckenridge beer before, I think a brown ale, It is good beer hard to beat. Oh, I have had Christmas Ale also, I think it is Breckenridge.

I make a good IPA and an even better porter. I do make my porter at around %5. I am going to start a porter when it gets a little cooler, should be done around January - Feb.

I will have to try vanilla porter sounds interesting.

I cant look at the links here at work though. :tear:

 

[Ransom]

DeeJay said:

I have said this a thousand times. WINE THAT IS FULLY FERMENTED HAS NO LEAVEN.

But you know what does? The wine spoken of as the best wine in Isaiah 25:6. Literally, the Scriptures say "wine on the lees," as the KJV has it.

Lees are solid matter that has settled out of the wine. This means not only skins, stems, and seeds, but also dead yeast, tannins, and other sediment. By themselves, lees are nasty stuff, which is one of the reasons why you decant an old bottle before you drink it. But by letting wine rest on the lees for a period of time, they impart flavour to the wine. The best wines, such as champagne, are fermented sur lie.

In other words, if God is offering his people wine on the lees, he isn't offering them grape juice.

 

[DeeJay]

DeeJay said:

I have said this a thousand times. WINE THAT IS FULLY FERMENTED HAS NO LEAVEN.

But you know what does? The wine spoken of as the best wine in Isaiah 25:6. Literally, the Scriptures say "wine on the lees," as the KJV has it.

Lees are solid matter that has settled out of the wine. This means not only skins, stems, and seeds, but also dead yeast, tannins, and other sediment. By themselves, lees are nasty stuff, which is one of the reasons why you decant an old bottle before you drink it. But by letting wine rest on the lees for a period of time, they impart flavour to the wine. The best wines, such as champagne, are fermented sur lie.

In other words, if God is offering his people wine on the lees, he isn't offering them grape juice.

Absolutly. The fine thin layer of lees on the bottom of a bottle are dead yeast cells. It is how the people participating in passover knew the wine was fully fermented and all the leaven was dead.

Also since Jesus was celebrating a passover dinner where no leaven could even be in the house the fruit of the vine could not have been grape juice full of leaven. It had to be fully fermented aged wine sitting on its lees.

 

[whatever]

... Those are reasons that Jesus would have never created fermented wine, nor is fermented wine used in the Lord's Table or the Passover. To symbolize the body of sin with the symbol of sin and corruption is blasphemous. Caffeine doesn't do that; but leaven does. Some here need to study their Bibles.
DHK

I guess Jesus should have studied His Bible more as well - Matthew 13:33 - "He told them another parable. 'The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, till it was all leavened.'" If symbolizing the body of Christ (which is what I think you meant) with the symbol of sin and corruption is blasphemous then what would you call Jesus for symbolizing His own Kingdom with that very same symbol?

 

[SoulWinningLady]

True. Did man "make" fermentation? Did man have anything to do with the physics of fermentation? Case closed.

Did man make pot? No, God did. The bible doesn't forbid smoking weed, so lets all LIGHT UP! WHooooo Hoooooo.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh: