• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Bible Agnostic Test.

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Hi Ascetic. I notice you dodged my question to you about your ever changing, Vatican supervised text NASBs and that the editions from 1972 to 1995 teach that the children of Israel DECEIVED God. Is that even possible?

All the things you just posted about the KJB are other more than the change from Gothic to Roman font, the correction of minor printing errors, most caught and corrected within the first 30 years by two of the original KJB translators, and later on the updating of much of the spelling - things like sonne to son, sinne to sin, citie to city, eies to eyes, dayes to days, yeares to years, hee to he, sate to sat, sayde to said. BUT the underlying Hebrew and Greek texts never changed. That is why there is only one copyright date on the KJB 1611.

This is in sharp contrast to the deliberate textual and translational changes that are being made in modern versions like your NASBs, and the NIVs, ESVs, etc, that nobody believes are the inerrant words of God.

If that is what you want to go with, then go for it. No one is stopping you from promoting these fake "bibles" that nobody, including you, believe are inerrant.
I don’t care about the NASB, so do not call it “your ever changing, Vatican supervised text NASBs”.

If you paid attention, you would see that I do not promote any particular Bible version.

You can call serious mistakes in the KJV “minor printing errors”, but they change meanings and cause the published KJV Bibles to not be inerrant. And for them to be uncorrected for 30 years means a lot of people were exposed to errors.

Your resemblance to Ruckmanism is on display…as you dodge many issues, including — why did God wait until 1611 to supposedly provide an allegedly perfect inerrant Bible translation? Your reply was rather inconsequential and did explain any reason.

According to your program, God let believers read error filled Bibles until 1611.
 
Last edited:

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Printing errors (typos) did happen in the printings of the King James Bible. There is one undeniable example of where the printer was obviously not paying close attention to what he was doing. He may have been tired or his eyes blurred what he was reading or he just had a mental lapse.

This example is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-7. You can get a copy of the first printing of the King James Bible 1611 from Thomas Nelson publishers. I have a hard copy myself.

When you go to 1 Corinthians chapter 15 we see the verses are numbered in the following fashion. The verses themselves are the same. But the numbering of the verses is not. What we see here is verse numbering as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 7. Notice the two 5's and the absence of the number 6.

In Matthew 26:34 instead of reading “this night before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.” The 1611 printing had “this MIGHT before the cocke crow.”

And in Matthew 27:37 another obvious printing error occurred when it said: “And set up over his head, his accusation WRITTTEN…with three Ts instead of “written”.

There is another obvious printing error found in Ephesians 4:30. The first printing had an “r” instead of the “p” in the word Spirit. It read: “And grieve not the Sririt of God, whereby yee are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

And in 1 Corinthians 7:32 there was another clear printing error where the original printing omitted the letter “n” and it read: “He that is unmarried, careth for the things that belogeth (instead of belongeth) to the Lord, how he may please the Lord.” This was caught and corrected in the 1612 printing.

Most printing errors were caught and corrected within the first 30 years by two of the original translators.

For example, Psalms 69:32 of the 1611 edition read "Your heart shall live that seek GOOD" instead of "that seek GOD." This was clearly a printer's error, and was caught and corrected in 1617.

How do we know this was a simple printing error? Easy. All Hebrew texts and all previous English Bibles read “that seek God.”

The two words are similar in spelling, just an additional “o” and any modern spell check would not have detected it because both sentences make sense.

In Ezekiel 24:7 the “first printing of the KJB in 1611 read “powred it vpon the ground" vs. "poured it NOT upon the ground" - This printing error was caught and corrected in 1613. Very easy to skip over the word "not". It is in all Hebrew texts and so read Wycliffe, Coverdale, Great bible, Matthew's bible, the Bishops' bible and the Geneva bibles.


In 1 Corinthians 4:9 the first printing of the KJB read: "approued to death" vs. "appointed to death”. This printing error was caught and corrected in 1616. This was a simple printing error. All previous English bibles read "appointed to death" -Tyndale, Coverdale, Great bible, Matthew's bible, Bishops' bible and the Geneva bible.
Errors cannot in any way, shape, form, or fashion mean inerrant.

Inerrant = incapable of being wrong. Oh the hypocrisy!
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don’t care about the NASB, so do not call it “your ever changing, Vatican supervised text NASBs”.

I have not declared allegiance to any Bible version. If you paid attention, you would see that I do not promote any Bible version.

You can call serious mistakes in the KJV “minor printing errors”, but they change meanings and cause the published KJV Bibles to not be inerrant. And for them to be uncorrected for 30 years means a lot of people were exposed to errors.

Your resemblance to Ruckmanism is on display…as you dodge many issues, including — why did God wait until 1611 to supposedly provide an allegedly perfect inerrant Bible translation? Your reply was rather inconsequential and did explain any reason.

According to your program, God let believers read error filled Bibles until 1611.
Oh, there’s the wicked Bible as well. It’s a double standard. The same standards they hold the modern versions to, they give a pass to the KJV and come up with some off the wall reason why it’s not an error. A non-error error, only a KJVO can come up with that.

And notice they call it the King James Bible. It’s not a King James Bible; it’s a King James VERSION of the holy Bible. It’s one of many versions, and is not the sole Bible for today.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I fully believe the English text of the King James Bible is the only complete and 100% true words of God in the English language and is the Standard by which all others should be measured.
You can choose to believe your own non-scriptural and non-true KJV-only opinions, but that does not make them true. You can deceive you yourself by believing claims that are not true.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
David Norton asserted: “It should never be forgotten that there were genuine problems in the first edition text that the Cambridge editors contributed greatly to remedying” (Textual History, p. 92). Nevertheless, the 1638 standard Cambridge KJV edition and the 1629 edition did not fix all the errors, imperfections, or inconsistencies in the 1611 edition of the KJV.

Concerning “man of activity” at Genesis 47:6, David Norton noted: “1611’s error comes from Bod [1602 Bishops’ with annotations]. Elsewhere the phrase is plural” (Textual History, p. 207). David Norton observed: “There are four good reasons for thinking this an error: the singular is inconsistent with ‘make them rulers,’ the Hebrew is plural, the same Hebrew is translated as plural in the other places where it occurs, and all the previous translations recognized that it was plural” (p. 36). The 1560 Geneva Bible translated it accurately and faithfully to the Hebrew as “men of activity.” Gordon Campbell wrote: “In Genesis 47:6, for example, he [F. S. Parris] observed that the singular form ‘man’ made little sense in the phrase ‘if thou knowest any man of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle’, and so changed ‘man’ to ‘men,’ which is what the Hebrew says” (Bible, p. 131).
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Clear evidence would conflict with the assumption or unproven claim that all the errors in the 1611 edition were the fault of the 1611 printer.

It has not been demonstrated that the KJV translators had noticed the error of the name of the wrong king at 2 Kings 24:19 in the 1602 edition of the Bishops’ Bible. At least it would be clear that the KJV translators did not make sure that this error [“Jehoiachin”] was corrected in the 1611 edition since this error is found in it. If the KJV translators had noticed this error of fact in the 1602 edition of the Bishops’ Bible, they would have been expected also to notice it uncorrected in the 1611 edition of the KJV and would have been expected to make sure that the printer corrected it very soon after 1611. The fact is that this error remained uncorrected in at least sixteen more editions of the KJV printed in London [1611, 1613, 1614, 1616, 1617, 1626. 1630, 1631, 1633, 1634, 1640. 1644, 1650. 1652, 1655, 1657, 1698] could suggest some responsibility on the part of some of the KJV translators since some of them had positions with authority over the press or over printers.

The error of the name of the wrong group of people [“Amorites”] at 1 Kings 11:5 in the 1602 edition of the Bishops’ Bible was also not corrected in the 1611 edition of the KJV.

Jack McElroy asserted that the Lord “won’t accept material error (i.e., errors of fact, history, geography, Science, & doctrine) in his holy book” (Bible Version, p. 472).

KJV-only advocates present no convincing case why these two material errors at 1 Kings 11:5 and 2 Kings 24:19 would remain uncorrected over 15 years in KJV editions if they had actually been corrected in the text of the KJV translators prepared for the printers.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Do you tell us which of the varying renderings in the Bible Babble Buffet of many varying editions of the KJV are the ones God inspired in His book?
Inspiration doesn't always travel in the same set of tracks.

When God Spoke the Inspired Sixth Commandment to not kill, 1.) He Wrote it on tablets of stone in some lettering, 2.) then the Hebrew with consonants might look like 3.);֖ א תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃ ס, then in our King James Bible, Exodus 20:13 reads, "Thou shalt not kill", 4.) which in French could be, "Tu ne tueras point" and 5.) I could holler out my front door, "Don't Murder!!"

I will contend that 1.) - 5.) are equally Inspired, as the Words of God, about which Jesus said,"the Words that I Speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life", in John 6:63,

where we know God's Promise is TRUE and will always be FULFILLED,
"So shall My Word be that Goeth Forth out of My Mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall Accomplish that which I Please, and it shall Prosper in the thing whereto I Sent it." Isaiah 55:11.


It's simply a matter of a comprehensive comparison of all available original language manuscripts, along with all other sources of reputable translations and holding to the Bible Doctrines of the Inspiration and Preservation of the Scriptures.

"All Scripture is Given by Inspiration of God, and is Profitable for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Correction, for Instruction in Righteousness:" II Timothy 3:16.

How did Jesus know that the Words He was Speaking would be written down and Preserved for us to read them, as well as, for them to be Preserved for us to be Judged by them, when He said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that Judgeth him: the Word that I have Spoken, the same shall Judge him in the Last Day", in John 12:48?

Because, Jesus is God and He has the Capability and Power to Do just what He said He would.

And, He has.

Anyone who knows you knows that you simply do not believe there is now or ever was such a thing as a complete and 100% true words of God Bible you can show us.
How is the KJV a complete English Bible translation in that it does not give an English word/rendering for each and every original-language word of Scripture in its underlying texts?
NO translation I am aware of, including the KJB, is always a word for word translation.
NO translation of anything ever was word-for-word and none ever intended to be. It's not in the cards, in the nature of translation, from one language to another.

If you're going to be looking for something of that nature, the place to begin would be in Isaiah 14:12, where the Hebrew term "helel ben shachar" is translated as "day star" or "morning star", in most every 'modern' translation, when the Hebrew words "helel ben shachar", which translates to “shining one, son of the dawn”, don't have any meaning word-for-word, or otherwise, that could include translating them with the English words "morning", or "star".

Who wanted them written in there?


"love one another as I loved you."
I am King James preferred, unless another actual Revision, or New, version comes about, if ever needed, some day (I am not KJVO, as professed by those who hold to the various tenants of Ruckmanism, which I find to be indefensible. For one example, from https://confessionalbibliology.com/...inspiration-of-the-king-james-version-part-1/, "He asserts that the translation itself (KJB) not only faithfully reproduces the original autographs but also surpasses them. Ruckman writes, “The AV 1611 English corrects the errors in the Greek manuscripts. It is the final revelation of God’s words to man” (The Scholarship Only Controversy, p. 78). Also, see What About Peter Ruckman?)

the KJB defended as God's complete and inerrant Bible
When there is nothing needed to be added, or to be subtracted, for it to be True, it is an Inerrant translation. We just need to find the one(s) that God has Persevered for us, the Way He Promised He would.

The idea that A.) we didn't at one time, B.) or don't now, have GOD'S WORD IN IT'S ENTIRETY, or that C.) we believe God's Word is contained within the whole collection of Preserved manuscripts, but that D.) we don't know, or E.) *can't know exactly where, are all Ludacris, A.)-E.),

*where adherents of the Alexandrian text-type underlying most modern New Testament versions say there is "no final, absolute written authority of God anywhere on this earth". From The "Creed of the Alexandrian Cult".

Second thing. Since you deny the inerrancy of the KJB how about you give me your Number One example of a provable error found in the KJB and we can take a look at it to see if you are right or not, OK? Not the usual laundry list you got from the internet, but just your # 1 best example.
IF NO PROVABLE ERROR can be determined to be genuinely and verifiably incorrect, then that translation version will fall under a nuance in the definition of 'perfect'.

This 'Second thing' Test seems to be where we're at, whether with the King James Bible, or other(s).
 
No. I don't believe they were; certainly not at the time they wrote, and given the qualification they made which you conveniently omitted. You should read the arguments they give for making that statement.

I do not need to find out. I have the complete 'Preface to the Reader' in the front of my Authorized Version Bible (that is what the KJV has always been called in England). I am fully aware that the translators were criticizing the Church of Rome for insisting that the Bible should not be translated into English because Jerome's 'Vulgate' Bible was in some way so perfect, that any translation must be inferior. Sound familiar?
The preface is quite long, and quite prolix. Why don't you post those extracts that you think support your argument, and we can discuss them? If you are not prepared to do that, you are being disingenuous, to use no stronger term.
You have it all wrong. They were criticizing the Roman Catholic Douay-Rheims New Testament.

This quote is always taken out of context by the KJB critics. Throughout the Preface there are repeated references to the contrast between the Bible translation work of Christians of the Reformation faith and those of the Catholic church.


The whole quote in context is this. "Now to the latter we answer, That we do not deny, nay, we affirm and avow, that THE VERY MEANEST TRANSLATION of the Bible in English SET FORTH BY MEN OF OUR PROFESSION, (for we have seen NONE OF THEIRS of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay is the word of God."

It should be clear that Miles Smith (the man who wrote the Preface) is referring to the Douay-Rheims ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT here, which was published by the Roman Catholics in 1582, the Old Testament not appearing until 1610, some five or six years AFTER the King James Bible translators began their own work of translation. Thus the reason for Smith's notation that they had "SEEN NONE OF THEIRS OF THE WHOLE BIBLE AS YET."

Even the Catholics themselves acknowledge that the King James Bible translators severely criticized and mocked the Catholic versions. Here is their own Catholic Cultur.org site where they talk about their Douay-Rheims bible.


Library : Uncomfortable Facts About The Douay-Rheims

Here in their own words they mention: "Further, the translators of the KJV make specific reference to the Douay version in their translators' preface, where they devote space to attacking the word choices made by the translators of the Douay. "We have shunned the obscurity of the Papists, in their [use of words like] AZIMES, TUNIKE, RATIONAL, HOLOCAUSTS, PRAEPUCE, PASCHE, and a number of such like [words], whereof their late Translation is full" ("The Translators to the Reader," King James Version, 1611 ed.).

That obviously is referring to an ENGLISH translation - the Douay-Rheims - and not to the Latin Vulgate.


"Men of our profession" refers to the Protestant, Reformation Christians and the "theirs" refers to the Catholics. In the previous paragraph to this quote we read them say regarding "the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined" that "all is sound for substance in one or other of OUR editions, AND THE WORST OF OURS FAR BETTER THAN THEIR AUTHENTICK VULGAR" (which refers to the various Latin Vulgate versions)

The context of the Preface by Miles Smith shows the contrast between early English Protestant translations and the "Bible" of the Roman Catholic Church. Translations like Tyndale's 1525, Coverdale's 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops' Bible 1568 and the Geneva Bible 1587 and such were translations "set forth by men of our profession" and thus, "containeth the Word of God, nay is the Word of God."

And today the same thing is going on with the Vatican supervised Critical Text versions.


Undeniable Documented Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, LSB, Holman Standard, NET, modern Catholic bibles, Jehovah Witness NWT etc. are the new "Vatican Versions"

Another King James Bible Believer

Undeniable Textual Proof the ESV, NIV, LSB, Holman Standard, NET, NASBs, modern Catholic bibles, Jehovah Witness NWT are the new "Vatican Versions" Part TWO - Textual proof.

Another King James Bible Believer
 
I don’t care about the NASB, so do not call it “your ever changing, Vatican supervised text NASBs”.

If you paid attention, you would see that I do not promote any particular Bible version.

You can call serious mistakes in the KJV “minor printing errors”, but they change meanings and cause the published KJV Bibles to not be inerrant. And for them to be uncorrected for 30 years means a lot of people were exposed to errors.

Your resemblance to Ruckmanism is on display…as you dodge many issues, including — why did God wait until 1611 to supposedly provide an allegedly perfect inerrant Bible translation? Your reply was rather inconsequential and did explain any reason.

According to your program, God let believers read error filled Bibles until 1611.


Acetic, a person does not need to have an inerrant Bible in order to get saved. The Bibles that preceded the King James Bible - Vulgate, Wycliffe, Tyndale, Coverdale, Great bible, Bishops' bible, Geneva Bible, Spanish Sagradas Escrituras, etc. were all far superior textually to the modern Vatican supervised text versions you like so much like the ever changing NASBs, ESVs, NIVs, etc.

You obviously do not believe that any Bible you can show us is now or ever was inerrant or 100% true. That is just where you are right now.

I and many thousands of other Christians do believe God has worked in history to give us a complete and inerrant Bible. It is the King James Holy Bible. I believe I have an inerrant Book. You do not believe such a thing exists. and it does not look like either one of our present positions is going to change anytime soon.


Did the King James Bible translators know they were putting together God's perfect and infallible words?


Another King James Bible Believer
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here in their own words they mention: "Further, the translators of the KJV make specific reference to the Douay version in their translators' preface, where they devote space to attacking the word choices made by the translators of the Douay. "We have shunned the obscurity of the Papists, in their [use of words like] AZIMES, TUNIKE, RATIONAL, HOLOCAUSTS, PRAEPUCE, PASCHE, and a number of such like [words], whereof their late Translation is full" ("The Translators to the Reader," King James Version, 1611 ed.).

That obviously is referring to an ENGLISH translation - the Douay-Rheims - and not to the Latin Vulgate.
Nevertheless, the Church of England makers of the KJV borrowed many renderings from the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament, introducing them into the KJV.

First-hand testimony and evidence from one of the KJV translators would acknowledge or affirm the use of the 1582 Rheims NT in the making of the KJV.

Ward Allen observed: "At Col. 2:18, he [KJV translator John Bois] explains that the [KJV] translators were relying up on the example of the Rheims Bible" (Bois, Translating for King James, pp. 10, 62-63). The note of John Bois cited a rendering from the 1582 Rheims [“willing in humility”] and then cited the margin of the Rheims [“willfull, or selfwilled in voluntary religion”] ( p. 63). Was the KJV’s rendering “voluntary” borrowed from the margin of the 1582 Rheims? W. F. Moulton stated: "The Rhemish Testament was not even named in the instructions furnished to the translators, but it has left its mark on every page of their work" (History of the English Bible, p. 207). Ward Allen maintained that "the Rheims New Testament furnished to the Synoptic Gospels and Epistles in the A. V. as many revised readings as any other version" (Translating the N. T. Epistles, p. xxv). Ward Allen and Edward Jacobs claimed that the KJV translators "in revising the text of the synoptic Gospels in the Bishops' Bible, owe about one-fourth of their revisions, each, to the Genevan and Rheims New Testaments" (Coming of the King James Gospels, p. 29). About 1 Peter 1:20, Ward Allen noted: “The A. V. shows most markedly here the influence of the Rheims Bible, from which it adopts the verb in composition, the reference of the adverbial modifier to the predicate, the verb manifest, and the prepositional phrase for you” (Translating for King James, p. 18). Concerning 1 Peter 4:9, Allen suggested that “this translation in the A. V. joins the first part of the sentence from the Rheims Bible to the final phrase of the Protestant translations” (p. 30).

KJV defender Laurence Vance admitted that the 1582 “Rheims supplies the first half of the reading” in the KJV at Galatians 3:1 and that the “Rheims supplies the last half of the reading” at Galatians 3:16 (Making of the KJV NT, p. 263). J. R. Dore wrote: "A very considerable number of the Rhemish renderings, which they introduced for the first time, were adopted by the revisers of King James's Bible of 1611" (Old Bibles, p. 303). Charles Butterworth observed that the Rheims version "recalled the thought of the [KJV] translators to the Latin structure of the sentences, which they sometimes preferred to the Greek for clarity's sake, thus reverting to the pattern of Wycliffe or the Coverdale Latin-English Testaments, and forsaking the foundation laid by Tyndale" (Literary Lineage of the KJV, p. 237). James Carleton noted: "One cannot but be struck by the large number of words which have come into the Authorized Version from the Vulgate through the medium of the Rhemish New Testament" (Part of Rheims in the Making of the English Bible, p. 32). John Stoughton observed: “But, what is more remarkable, the effect of the Rhemish version is manifest. The companies must have had the Roman Catholic Testament, as well as the whole volume of Puritan Scriptures, by their side as they slowly accomplished their task” (Our English Bible, p. 250).


Glenn Conjurske wrote: “At the end of Revelation 18:13, the King James Version follows the Rheims New Testament in saying ‘slaves’ instead of the correct translation ‘bodies’ (relegating ‘bodies’ to the margin). The Rheims version was translated from the Latin Vulgate, and the reading ‘slaves’ comes from mancipiorum of the Vulgate” (Olde Paths, April, 1993, p. 87).

Along with the above examples, some other renderings that the makers of the KJV may have borrowed from the 1582 Rheims include “austere” (Luke 19:21), “malefactors” (Luke 23:19), “malefactor” (John 18:30), “vesture” (John 19:24), “clemency” (Acts 24:4), “principal” (Acts 25:23), “malignity” (Rom. 1:29), “emulation” (Rom. 11:14), “illuminated” (Heb. 10:32), “seduce” (1 John 2:26), and “incense” (Rev. 8:3).
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The context of the Preface by Miles Smith shows the contrast between early English Protestant translations and the "Bible" of the Roman Catholic Church. Translations like Tyndale's 1525, Coverdale's 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops' Bible 1568 and the Geneva Bible 1587 and such were translations "set forth by men of our profession" and thus, "containeth the Word of God, nay is the Word of God."
The 1539 Great Bible may not be overall purer in all its readings and renderings than the 1537 Matthew’s Bible, contradicting any purification process argument advocated by some KJV-only advocates. Sometimes the next Bible in the KJV-only view’s good line or pure stream of Bibles made some changes by adding words likely from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate and the old Greek Septuagint as in the case of the Great Bible.

In several likely additions from the Latin Vulgate/Greek Septuagint including three whole verses in Psalm 14 (between verses 4 and 5), an edition of the Great Bible in 1540 has over two hundred words in the book of Psalms that are not found in the KJV (check and compare Ps. 1:4, 2:11, 7:11, 11:4, 13:6, 14:2,18:6, 19:14, 20:9, 22:1. 24:4. 28:3, 29:1, 30:7, 33:3, 33:10, 37:36, 38:16, 38:33, 42:10, 45:9, 48:4, 50:21, 55:23, 65:1, 71:8, 73:13, 73:28, 85:8, 92:13, 95:7, 108:1, 111:10, 115:9, 118:2, 119:97, 120:7, 132:4, 134:1, 134:2, 136:26, 137:1, 145:15, 147:8, 148:5). A 1540 edition of the Great Bible also has over one hundred fifty words in the book of Proverbs that are not found in the KJV (check and compare Prov. 4:27, 6:12, 12:11, 13:13, 15:5, 15:27, 16:6, 18:22). Because of possible additions from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate, an edition of the Great Bible also has over one hundred words in one New Testament book (Acts) which are not found in the KJV (check and compare Acts 4:25, 4:27, 5:15, 13:30, 14:7, 15:34c, 15:41c, 18:4, 23:24c, 24:17). These textual differences (pertinent facts), involving over 450 words, were found in a reprint of one of the 1540 editions of a Great Bible so they may not be in every one of the varying editions of the Great Bible. The same textually-based differences in the book of Psalms are found in John Earle’s 1894 reprint of The Psalter of the Great Bible of 1539. In his introduction to his reprint of the 1539 Great Bible’s Book of Psalms, John Earle noted: “The chief type representing the Hebrew text, while the Greek (Latin) additions are bracketed and in reduced lettering” (p. xlii). Thus, the Great Bible, the first authorized Bible in English, would likely have hundreds of more words than the 1611 KJV, the third authorized Bible in English. Would the whole verses, the clauses and phrases, and the words found in the Great Bible but not in the KJV be called “missing friends”?

Some other examples of likely additions in the Great Bible include Matthew 24:41 where this is added: "Two in a bed, the one shall be received, and the other refused." "He shall enter into the kingdom of heaven" is added to the end of Matthew 7:21. Near the beginning of Matthew 26:15, the words “unto them” are added from the Latin Vulgate. Another addition is found at Luke 16:21 [“and no man gave unto him”]. At the end of Luke 24:36, the 1540 edition added: “It is I, scare not.” At the end of 1 Corinthians 4:16, the Great Bible added: "as I follow Christ." The words "with whom also I am lodged" are added to the end of 1 Corinthians 16:19. The Great Bible added the following at 2 John 11: "Behold, I have told you before that ye should not be ashamed in the day of the Lord." After the word “fire” in Jude 1:23, there is also an addition [“and have compassion on the other”]. At the end of Jude 1:24, another addition is found [“at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”]. After the words “the third part” and before the phrase “of trees” at Revelation 8:7, the 1540 edition has added words [“of the earth was set on fire, and the third part”].
 
Nevertheless, the Church of England makers of the KJV borrowed many renderings from the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament, introducing them into the KJV.

First-hand testimony and evidence from one of the KJV translators would acknowledge or affirm the use of the 1582 Rheims NT in the making of the KJV.

Hi Rick. I have no problem with the KJB translators using a word or a phrase from the Douay-Rheims if they thought it was a good translation to use. They compared many different language bibles when they made up their masterpiece. They compared many different English bibles and many foreign language bibles as well.

The older Latin Vulgate and the Douay-Rheims bible were far more accurate textually than are the modern Catholic versions like the St. Joseph NAB or the Jerusalem bible, which are based on the same UBS Critical Text as are the Jehovah Witness NWT and the ESV, NIV, NASB, LSB, NET, etc. Almost all of those 45 verses in the New Testament the modern Vatican Versions either omit or call into question are found in both the Latin Vulgate and the Douay-Rheims.

You piously refer to the Greek and Hebrew original writings yet you have never seen them or read them and you certainly cannot show them to anybody else. You have a Fantasy "bible" that you cannot and will not show us (and in fact never did exist as an entire Bible) that you seem to make up as you go but it is not yet in print - nor will it ever be in print.
You are just another guy who has made your own mind your final authority and you have NO complete and 100% true words of God Bible to show to anyone.


You are just looking for ways to justify and feel better about your own unbelief in an inerrant (100% true) Bible.
And I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.
 
The KJV addition of “Lucifer” has caused problems as well.
Lucifer is correct and here is why.




"Lucifer" or "Morning Star" (Day Star) in Isaiah 14:12?


Another King James Bible Believer





In Isaiah 14:12 the King James Holy Bible (and MANY others, as we shall soon see) reads: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."





Screen Shot 2017-07-05 at 8.39.53 AM.png
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lucifer is correct and here is why.




"Lucifer" or "Morning Star" (Day Star) in Isaiah 14:12?


Another King James Bible Believer





In Isaiah 14:12 the King James Holy Bible (and MANY others, as we shall soon see) reads: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."





View attachment 13706
Lucifer, AFAIK, is not in any OT manuscript. The ppl who worked on the KJV took it from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. But nice try anyways.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lucifer is correct and here is why.




"Lucifer" or "Morning Star" (Day Star) in Isaiah 14:12?


Another King James Bible Believer





In Isaiah 14:12 the King James Holy Bible (and MANY others, as we shall soon see) reads: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."





View attachment 13706
FYI, Lucifer is not a pre-fallen Satan, but the Babylonian king. That’s the context.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Acetic, a person does not need to have an inerrant Bible in order to get saved. The Bibles that preceded the King James Bible - Vulgate, Wycliffe, Tyndale, Coverdale, Great bible, Bishops' bible, Geneva Bible, Spanish Sagradas Escrituras, etc. were all far superior textually to the modern Vatican supervised text versions you like so much like the ever changing NASBs, ESVs, NIVs, etc.

You obviously do not believe that any Bible you can show us is now or ever was inerrant or 100% true. That is just where you are right now.

I and many thousands of other Christians do believe God has worked in history to give us a complete and inerrant Bible. It is the King James Holy Bible. I believe I have an inerrant Book. You do not believe such a thing exists. and it does not look like either one of our present positions is going to change anytime soon.


Did the King James Bible translators know they were putting together God's perfect and infallible words?


Another King James Bible Believer
Lots of revisions [1611, 1613, 1614, 1616, 1617, 1626. 1630, 1631, 1633, 1634, 1640. 1644, 1650. 1652, 1655, 1657, 1698] for an inerrant Bible, eh?
 
Top