The Bible says a lot of things

[utilyan]

How have I misrepresented you? Do you believe Jews and Muslims who reject the Lord Jesus Christ are still going to be saved as long as they love others and do good works?

I rather have the nearest brick wall explain my position before you butcher what I say.......its no surprise you got all scripture wrong too.

Anyone who love others and do good works accept Jesus.

You can even say can't love others by rejecting Jesus, or that the most evil thing I can do to everyone in the world is "reject Jesus".

But "reject Jesus" defined by a bigot is different from "reject Jesus" defined by Jesus.

A bigot will state its at the inclusion of acknowledgement of existence he can even stretch to absolutely any exclusive doctrine he has in mind. He can say do you accept Jesus Christ? YES? I too hate JEWS! and its like wait what?

 

[utilyan]

What do you think Paul meant by this ignorance? Paul knew the Gospel message. Paul knew Christians followed Jesus as the Son of God, which is why he hunted them down and killed them, for worshiping Jesus as God. So what was Paul ignorant of?

All evil has ignorance as foundation.

 

[steaver]

Anyone who love others and do good works accept Jesus.

Did you purposefully leave out all the titles? Scripture is specific and perfect (of course bc it is of God). The "accepting" is Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Christ, Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus of Nazareth the "good man" is not what Scripture states one must accept. One must accept the truth, the titles, Jesus revealed of Himself. Each and every Scripture I gave was about accepting who Jesus is. Thus, your belief, your quote above is false and unbiblical. Loving others and doing good works is NOT accepting the Lord Jesus Christ. It may be accepting Jesus the do good unto others teacher, but it is NOT accepting the Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture makes it perfectly clear it is the accepting of who Jesus is that saves.

What did Paul preach after Jesus saved him? Jesus was a good man, follow His good deeds? Here is what Paul did....."And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God."

If a good Muslim or a good Jew or a good anybody rejects Jesus as Lord, rejects Jesus as Christ, rejects Jesus as the Son of God, these people are antichrist and are not saved. Can they be saved? Of course, if they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture backs this up all day long and is emphatic about it....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1Jo 2:22)

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1Jo 4:3)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2Jo 1:7)

Scripture references to Jesus as...
Christ - 559 times
Lord - 379 times
Son of God - 889 times

This is what MUST be accepted. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God"

These people you say are doing good means they accept Jesus, that is absolutely a false premise and a false belief and a false teaching. Scripture destroys this view. It is the spirit of antichrist and that is me repeating the Apostle John word for word.

 

[steaver]

All evil has ignorance as foundation.

This really makes no sense. You are saying all people who do evil don't know they are doing evil. Paul's ignorance was he thought he was doing a good thing for God by trying to snuff out Christians, which was Paul's ignorance. Jesus had to personally stop Paul through a face to face, but blessed is the person who does not see and believes on Jesus Christ and believes He is the Son of God.

 

[utilyan]

This really makes no sense. You are saying all people who do evil don't know they are doing evil. Paul's ignorance was he thought he was doing a good thing for God by trying to snuff out Christians, which was Paul's ignorance. Jesus had to personally stop Paul through a face to face, but blessed is the person who does not see and believes on Jesus Christ and believes He is the Son of God.

“Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.”

Does it make sense now?

59They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.



All evil is an act of ignorance. Every sin is 100% guaranteed to be stupid, ignorant, and immature.

Its like if you took a hammer and hit your hand, no one says wow that hurt lets do that again, To sin is 100 times more stupid. One guy sins the other decides to hit his hammer his hand, the sinner is dumber. Ignorant.

Every act of evil bets against God which is perfectly stupid.


"You are saying all people who do evil don't know they are doing evil."
No. thats Calvinist who claim no one even knows how to do a good thing.

We say you know how to do exactly what is right and still chose to do wrong.

Every motivation of evil has ignorance for fuel.

Every sin you commit I can pin to Fear and Ignorance for motivations.

Ignorance because God's way is best. Fear cause by lack of faith.

 

[utilyan]

Lets get back to the subject:

The Bible says a lot of things.

Put up scripture that says the bible is the final and only authority.

 

[Alcott]

I just wanted to hear you call him Dad.

What for?

 

[Alcott]

Lets get back to the subject:

The Bible says a lot of things.

Put up scripture that says the bible is the final and only authority.

Put up scripture that says "the Bible says a lot of things."

 

[Matt Black]

What for?

"Call no man Father"...you just did. Therefore it would appear that you no longer think that that particular Scripture means what you thought it meant...

 

[atpollard]

Put up scripture that says the bible is the final and only authority.

Ephesians 2:20 NASB

19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the [fn]saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [fn]temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
​

The Bible is the written record of the Apostles ... the only foundation for the Church. Any teaching contrary to this Apostolic Foundation, must be rejected as the dross it is.

 

[Adonia]

Ephesians 2:20 NASB

19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the [fn]saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [fn]temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
​

The Bible is the written record of the Apostles ... the only foundation for the Church. Any teaching contrary to this Apostolic Foundation, must be rejected as the dross it is.

That is not what your Scripture quote says. Your Scripture quote says that the apostles and the prophets are the foundation and Jesus is the cornerstone - not the book we call the bible. Jesus Himself placed people in authority over the faithful here on earth - he did not write a book for us to figure things out for ourselves. Real people making real decisions for the faithful concerning the Christian faith and what is to be properly believed about it.

 

[steaver]

Anyone who love others and do good works accept Jesus.

Re-posting with corrected numbers on the times Lord, Christ and Son of God are emphasized in Scripture (I transferred the wrong sets)

Did you purposefully leave out all the titles? Scripture is specific and perfect (of course bc it is of God). The "accepting" is Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Christ, Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus of Nazareth the "good man" is not what Scripture states one must accept. One must accept the truth, the titles, Jesus revealed of Himself. Each and every Scripture I gave was about accepting who Jesus is. Thus, your belief, your quote above is false and unbiblical. Loving others and doing good works is NOT accepting the Lord Jesus Christ. It may be accepting Jesus the do good unto others teacher, but it is NOT accepting the Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture makes it perfectly clear it is the accepting of who Jesus is that saves.

What did Paul preach after Jesus saved him? Jesus was a good man, follow His good deeds? Here is what Paul did....."And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God."

If a good Muslim or a good Jew or a good anybody rejects Jesus as Lord, rejects Jesus as Christ, rejects Jesus as the Son of God, these people are antichrist and are not saved. Can they be saved? Of course, if they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture backs this up all day long and is emphatic about it....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1Jo 2:22)

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1Jo 4:3)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2Jo 1:7)

Scripture references to Jesus as...
Christ - 559 times
Lord - 115 times
Son of God - 47 times

This is what MUST be accepted. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God"

These people you say are doing good means they accept Jesus, that is absolutely a false premise and a false belief and a false teaching. Scripture destroys this view. It is the spirit of antichrist and that is me repeating the Apostle John word for word.

 

[Alcott]

"Call no man Father"...you just did. Therefore it would appear that you no longer think that that particular Scripture means what you thought it meant...

No, I call him my old man-- not what I would call God.

 

[Matt Black]

No, I call him my old man-- not what I would call God.

You did also say "my dad ". "Old man" is another term for "father" in any event.

 

[Matt Black]

Ephesians 2:20 NASB

19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the [fn]saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [fn]temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
​

The Bible is the written record of the Apostles ... the only foundation for the Church. Any teaching contrary to this Apostolic Foundation, must be rejected as the dross it is.

That's so plainly talking about the Church not the Bible: "God's household ...foundation...Apostles...building...holy temple"; all terms Scripture uses to describe the Church, not itself.

 

[utilyan]

Re-posting with corrected numbers on the times Lord, Christ and Son of God are emphasized in Scripture (I transferred the wrong sets)

Did you purposefully leave out all the titles? Scripture is specific and perfect (of course bc it is of God). The "accepting" is Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Christ, Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus of Nazareth the "good man" is not what Scripture states one must accept. One must accept the truth, the titles, Jesus revealed of Himself. Each and every Scripture I gave was about accepting who Jesus is. Thus, your belief, your quote above is false and unbiblical. Loving others and doing good works is NOT accepting the Lord Jesus Christ. It may be accepting Jesus the do good unto others teacher, but it is NOT accepting the Lord Jesus Christ and Scripture makes it perfectly clear it is the accepting of who Jesus is that saves.

What did Paul preach after Jesus saved him? Jesus was a good man, follow His good deeds? Here is what Paul did....."And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God."

If a good Muslim or a good Jew or a good anybody rejects Jesus as Lord, rejects Jesus as Christ, rejects Jesus as the Son of God, these people are antichrist and are not saved. Can they be saved? Of course, if they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture backs this up all day long and is emphatic about it....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1Jo 2:22)

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1Jo 4:3)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2Jo 1:7)

Scripture references to Jesus as...
Christ - 559 times
Lord - 115 times
Son of God - 47 times

This is what MUST be accepted. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God"

These people you say are doing good means they accept Jesus, that is absolutely a false premise and a false belief and a false teaching. Scripture destroys this view. It is the spirit of antichrist and that is me repeating the Apostle John word for word.

Satan believes Jesus Christ is God Lord and Savior.

The acknowledgement that Jesus is God has no bearing to his allegiance, which Jesus repeatedly equated to following the commandments.

Grovel before me, kneel and accept me as Lord and I will let you receive the kingdom.

Jesus never stated this. Satan however offered it. I pity that you would expect Jesus to behave exactly like Satan.

John 14

15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.



The Jesus I worship is not a Nazi. The good will always win over the evil.

 

[atpollard]

That is not what your Scripture quote says. Your Scripture quote says that the apostles and the prophets are the foundation and Jesus is the cornerstone - not the book we call the bible. Jesus Himself placed people in authority over the faithful here on earth - he did not write a book for us to figure things out for ourselves. Real people making real decisions for the faithful concerning the Christian faith and what is to be properly believed about it.

Then ARE the words of the apostles and the prophets (the foundation of the church) important or not?
Do you know what a foundation is and what it does? As an Architect, I am very aware. One ignores the foundation when building the upper structure only at great peril. The words of Christ and the Apostles are recorded in the Bible. We have the words of the Cornerstone and Foundation preserved for us to keep us from building amiss.

Shall we also ignore the words of the cornerstone, since the Bible is the only place they are found?
Perhaps we should follow the example of the Mormons and just add new and contradictory books as we please ... ignoring the Cornerstone and foundation recorded in the Bible? Is that what you advocate?

 

[steaver]

Satan believes Jesus Christ is God Lord and Savior.

The Gospel message is not for the angels, your point has no bearing on this issue, ALL the angels not only believe Jesus is God, they KNOW it. Also, every person who ever went to hell also NOW knows Jesus is the Christ, and is God and Savior. (Luke 16)

Grovel before me, kneel and accept me as Lord and I will let you receive the kingdom.
Jesus never stated this.

Never said He did, straw man tactic when one has no intelligent answer to give.

The Jesus I worship is not a Nazi. The good will always win over the evil.

And this is the root of the problem. You have not addressed the scripture I gave you.....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (1Jo 2:22) Does your good Jew and good Muslim deny Jesus is the Christ?

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1Jo 4:3) Does your good Jew and good Muslim confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? Key word "Christ", Messiah!

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2Jo 1:7)

This is a serious issue. Every Christian on this board understands the foundation of being a Christian and being saved is on the confession of who Jesus is. It is required to be allowed to post on this board. If you are here to advocate against this foundational truth, you are going to end up like a BobRyan. For if you are teaching people they do not have to believe Jesus is Lord, they do not have to believe Jesus is the Christ and they do not have to believe Jesus is the Son of God to be saved, you are the spirit of antichrist (see above).

I also call on all the Catholic guest on this board, who have been allowed to stay here, to denounce this teaching that one can reject who Jesus is and still be saved. It has been noted how silent you all have been, why haven't any of you reprimanded your fellow brother for his antichrist beliefs and teachings?

 

[atpollard]

That's so plainly talking about the Church not the Bible: "God's household ...foundation...Apostles...building...holy temple"; all terms Scripture uses to describe the Church, not itself.

Absent the Bible (scripture), how do we know anything about what the Cornerstone and Foundation taught to keep the Church in alignment with the foundation and avoid building amiss (like the Mormons)? Christ is the Cornerstone of the Church: The words of Christ are found in the Bible. The Church can always be measured against the Cornerstone because we have His words recorded and preserved for us. The Apostles are the foundation that supports the Church. The Church can always be measured against the Foundation because we have their words recorded and preserved for us.

Actually, the matter is much simpler. There is an old saying "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting." Those who hold to the supremacy of scripture have issues that extend only so far from the recorded teaching of the Apostolic Foundation and Cornerstone. Those who reject 'sola scriptura' introduce errors that extend far beyond anything Christ or the Apostles taught ... like a co-redemptrix, universal salvation, people becoming gods, etc.

 

[Matt Black]

Absent the Bible (scripture), how do we know anything about what the Cornerstone and Foundation taught to keep the Church in alignment with the foundation and avoid building amiss (like the Mormons)?

Because of the witness of His Body, the Church.