The Biblical Doctrine of Divorce

[LadyEagle]

Sloppy picking of spouses may or may not have anything to do with it because if I remember correctly, Jewish families use to do the picking of spouses as was their custom and yet there were bills of divorcement.

 

[exscentric]

"Sloppy picking of spouses may or may not have anything to do with it"

Very true, but the "may" is very true today, just think of Britney and thousands of others that get hitched on a whim and a lust :thumbs:

Then there are those that go against the Lord's admonition not to marry a lost person. :tear:

And of course there are those that do it all right and get a bum or bumess - the "may nots." :tonofbricks:

 

[pinoybaptist]

.<snip> I've already been told that I'm a lost believer because of divorce. </snip>

whoever said that knows how to read the Scriptures, but do not comprehend the Scriptures. I'm sorry you've been told that. But, then,I've been told I was not a child of God because I swear when very angry, and go to the movies, and sang and listened to secular songs, and for a long time was in the grip of tobacco !

STILL, there are marriages that just can't, and won't be saved NO MATTER WHAT.

Now, with that I don't agree. The problem is that we don't have enough patience for God to work His way. What about "wait on the Lord" ? I shared a story of a real superwoman with superwoman8977. That story wasn't fictional. You know how long that superwoman waited on the Lord before He really worked on her issues ? 13 years.

My first wife went her own way. She ignored counseling and the church. She just didn't want to be married any longer, or be a pastor's wife, and that was NO FAULT of mine.

Well, you and I can ignore counseling, and you and I can ignore the church (I know I have ignored counseling and churches and went my own bullheaded way) and that's because counesellors and the church are people. People misread people, and cannot always be right. Take a look at Job's friends. But if the Lord is waited on, His timing and His solutions are always perfect.

I can't believe that God will send me to Hell because of a marital failure.

And you are absolutely correct. And I may have missed it, but I don't think anybody said you will be send to hell because of a marital failure. All we on the contrary side are saying is that God NEVER allowed divorce for any reason at all.

I believe that divorce is a sin, and if I understand the Bible, sin is something that God forgives through His Son's death and ressurection.

And I believe and KNOW that murder is a sin, so next time somebody wrongs me, I should murder him ? Anyway, murder is something that God forgives through His Son's death and resurrection ? What about defrauding the bank ? Surely Jesus knew I would be defrauding that bank at such and such a time because I'm really, truly hard up and that sin is covered by His death and resurrection ?

Those die-hard believers that shove the Bible in the face of a divorcée and tell them that it is "simply" not acceptable to God need to re-examine the log in their own eye!

That's strange to hear from one who is supposed to be a child of God. I believe I often hear that, but they come from (1) atheists (2) skeptics (3) liberals both secular and christians, and such.

"Simply" not acceptable ? The anti-divorce people here have quoted Scripture and given the reasons why they interpret that as God not allowing divorce.
Error in having misinterpreted the Scripture is harder to accept. And errors in doctrine that
have been passed on and received and then taught and passed on by the receiver to the next generation is hardest to accept, escpecially if we have applied the error to our life.

I don't believe I serve a God who is that unmovable, :

What we do and don't believe doesn't matter. Here's what matters:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. Isaiah 55:8

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Mat. 9:8-9.

Isaiah 55:8 is obvious and needs no further examination. Mat. 9 you need to look at the sequence and the some words used. Moses preceded Christ on earth, but Christ preceded everbody else because He is the creator. While Moses allowed divorce, it was not with the consent of God, and if you have Scripture that shows Moses was permitted by God, then show it. God tolerated Moses's decision as His designated leader of Israel for that period, but notice, Jesus said FROM the beginning, not IN the beginning, which I believe has different meanings.

The next sentence he says AND I (same as 'now I'm telling you and I'm the authority so you better listen').

and I don't believe you folks that judge divorced people so harshly are any more better than the divorced brother or sister

Again, neither DHK nor myself have judged anyone. Reformed Baptist started the thread about Divorce being a Biblical Doctrine, we of the opposite persuasion simply stated that we do not think it is a Biblical Doctrine.

If I started a thread that said all of God's elect are born redeemed and it is Biblical doctrine, I am sure YOU will be one of those who will pop your head in to say I'm not being true to God's word and I will discuss it with you until you start to call me unsaved, and then we part ways.
Now, like I said, neither DHK nor myself have made any harsh judgmental statements on any of you divorced people.
If I ever did, I apologize, and take it back. I don't know if DHK did.

What I can remember is we said we did not believe Jesus Christ sanctioned divorce, and gave our reasons why. Neither have I made the claim that I am better than any of you divorced people. I am worse than any of you here. If Paul thinks he is the chief of sinners, maybe that's because he has not met me.

who could do nothing but watch their marriage get washed away in the flood of someone else's sin against you and the marriage you went into for life.

Wrong. Like I said, I have one woman whom I know that was able to do something. Wait on the Lord. I think some divorces happen because of impatience. Not all, to be sure, but some.

And this problem is not even to be blamed on church members who have divorced. I blame this on the churches itself, who have down thru the years softened and adjusted their stand on divorce.

Adultery has been around even during those times when the doctrine on divorce was stronger and unwatered down. But comparing now to then, the divorce rates within churchgoers have gone up, and yet it's the same sin: adultery. Or has adultery among church members gone up, too ?

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

shalom.

pb

 

[DHK]

I know that this will get me some hot button reactions with notes. I've already been told that I'm a lost believer because of divorce. STILL, there are marriages that just can't, and won't be saved NO MATTER WHAT.

First, that is like saying: "God cannot answer prayer, no matter what the situation. Kind of a harsh attitude toward God isn't it?

My first wife went her own way. She ignored counseling and the church. She just didn't want to be married any longer, or be a pastor's wife, and that was NO FAULT of mine.

There are two spouses; two stories; and two people at fault--always. After all, if the person was as bad as you say, you made the mistake of marrying her. It takes two to tangle. It takes two to hold a marriage together.

There is a greater success rate in Eastern nations (as it was in Bible times) when they had arranged marriages. Naomi chose Boaz for Ruth and even though she was poor devised a way to make it happen. Abraham chose a wife for Isaac, by sending his trusted servant and putting that responsibilty on him.
A parent chose the spouse-to-be of their child because they were wiser and could chose out of love for their children rather than the child choosing out of emoiton and lust. There was no such thing as "falling in love."

I can't believe that God will send me to Hell because of a marital failure. I believe that divorce is a sin, and if I understand the Bible, sin is something that God forgives through His Son's death and ressurection.

Absolutely, and I don't believe anyone here would disagree with you.

Those die-hard believers that shove the Bible in the face of a divorcée and tell them that it is "simply" not acceptable to God need to re-examine the log in their own eye!

A harsh statement. I am not sure where you are coming from.

I don't believe I serve a God who is that unmovable, and I don't believe you folks that judge divorced people so harshly are any more better than the divorced brother or sister who could do nothing but watch their marriage get washed away in the flood of someone else's sin against you and the marriage you went into for life.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

God loves divorced people just as much as He loves any other person. And he forgives the mistakes that they make along the way. The issue here is that divorce and remarriage affect a person wanting to go into the ministry. It disqualifies him.
He is no longer blaimeless.
He no longer is the husband of one wife (if remarred).
He no longer rules his house well.

He cannot stand before his congregation and be the example of what a Godly "pastor" ought to be because he has made shipwreck of his own home-life.

Paul writing to Timothy as a younger pastor gave him this advice:

1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

A man that is divorced is not a good example to the believers.

 

[LadyEagle]

The issue here is that divorce and remarriage affect a person wanting to go into the ministry. It disqualifies him.
He is no longer blaimeless.
He no longer is the husband of one wife (if remarred).
He no longer rules his house well.

I did not know the issues on this thread was about a divorced person wanting to go into the ministry. Have I been posting on the wrong thread?

:tonofbricks:

 

[superwoman8977]

First, that is like saying: "God cannot answer prayer, no matter what the situation. Kind of a harsh attitude toward God isn't it?

There are two spouses; two stories; and two people at fault--always. After all, if the person was as bad as you say, you made the mistake of marrying her. It takes two to tangle. It takes two to hold a marriage together.

There is a greater success rate in Eastern nations (as it was in Bible times) when they had arranged marriages. Naomi chose Boaz for Ruth and even though she was poor devised a way to make it happen. Abraham chose a wife for Isaac, by sending his trusted servant and putting that responsibilty on him.
A parent chose the spouse-to-be of their child because they were wiser and could chose out of love for their children rather than the child choosing out of emoiton and lust. There was no such thing as "falling in love."

Absolutely, and I don't believe anyone here would disagree with you.

A harsh statement. I am not sure where you are coming from.

God loves divorced people just as much as He loves any other person. And he forgives the mistakes that they make along the way. The issue here is that divorce and remarriage affect a person wanting to go into the ministry. It disqualifies him.
He is no longer blaimeless.
He no longer is the husband of one wife (if remarred).
He no longer rules his house well.

He cannot stand before his congregation and be the example of what a Godly "pastor" ought to be because he has made shipwreck of his own home-life.

Paul writing to Timothy as a younger pastor gave him this advice:

1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

A man that is divorced is not a good example to the believers.

Okay I just have to ask this where do you get off judging people? My husband was the adulterer not me and you and your co-horts have sat there on your mighty throne and basically treated me and every other woman that has been in this situation like a 2nd class citizen. I have closed the door to reconciliation if I am ever going to get my life back on track I have to do that. I did the hope thing I did the prayer thing and I hung on for 2 years enough is enough! I am ready to move on, to meet someone new. I cannot believe you want someone to sit there and wait for a spouse to come back that has no intentions of coming back! The more I get in the word the more I see where no one for the most part has a clue about marriage, etc excpet lets bash the victim and let the man who committed it who probably isnt following God do as He chooses. I also have NO desire to remain single. We were designed for someone to share our life with we were designed for fellowship we were not designed to be alone and to live alone etc. In Hebrews 10:25 we are to fellowship with other believers we arent to live life alone. Ohh that just burns me up how someone who doesnt have a clue what this hell is like how it feels to have everything you built your foundation on smashed and crumble to the ground. And before you make a comment on what my foundation is built on let me tell you its built on Christ but when you lose everything your foundation suffers some serious damage I am so appalled at the lack of compassion etc that has been shown and this constant well the word says this and the word says that and well okay it says it but does it apply to this situation I really dont see it. Okay I am gonna go back to work I cant believe I have let myself get so upset over this

 

[donnA]

I can't fault a woman whose husband decided to commit adultery, not once, but continuously, and then decided he wanted another women and not his wife, so he ditches his wife. But, even if there is a divorce, scripture does not allow her to replace him with another man until he dies.
Your reasoning is flawed. If your foundation were built on Christ you would not be looking to violate scripture with another man.

 

[Brother Shane]

Bob, I have lived my half century in this life, and you are probably are much older than I. I have never questioned the meaning of adultery both in my saved life, and in my unsaved life. Adultery has always meant unfaithfulness to one's spouse. That is the meaning of the word in any language.


Likewise I grew up knowing the word fornication. It was not a foreign word to me. As Adultery meant unfaithful to one's wife, or put another way: illicit sex after marriage; fornication was the opposite--illicit sex before marriage. That is the primary meaning of the word, as any dictionary will tell you. Yes, it does encompass some other lesser meanings. But the primary meaning is illicit sex before marriage.

Matthew 5:32 is the only verse where "except for fornication" is used. The context is often ignored here. Let me give it to you.
First the greater context. The Gospel of Matthew was written to Jews presenting Christ as the Messiah, the King of the Jews. There are more OT references in Matthew than in any other Gospel. It seeks to prove that Jesus was the Son of David, the righful heir to the throne of David; the Messiah. It was written to a Jewish audience.

Keeping that in mind, for the Jews especially, fornication meant illicit sex before marriage. We can easily see that in Matthew chapter one, in the life of Mary and Joseph. Joseph was about to "divorce" his "wife to be" Mary. They were betrothed, not married, and yet they called each other husband and wife. That is how tight the marriage contract was at that time. That marriage contract could be broken if fornication (sex before marriage) was found to be true in the wife. This is what happened (or what Joseph supposed) in the life of Mary. She was pregnant. He was going to divorce her, for the cause of fornication, even though they were only betrothed. If it were not for the intervention of the angel, Joseph would have gone ahead with the divorce. It would have been for the cause of fornication--sex before marriage.

That is where Mat.5:32 fits in. The only way it would apply in our society is if in a relationship when a couple is engaged and ready to be married, one of them is found to be unfaithful, then perhaps they should break off the engagement, and think twice about being married. That is the application of that verse today.

Don't you feel like we have said this over and over and over? How hard is it to see that?


Good posting, by the way.

 

[Salamander]

No one is advocating divorce. Our discussion is whether Jesus made an exception for the cause of fornication. Maybe you could give us your thoughts on the scripture in Matt:

Matt 5;
32: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Exactly my "thoughts" and if we included the entire context we would find this so-called "exception clause" stems from the hardheart of the husband towards the wife for her premarital activity.

Many try to use this passage for a man-made "loop-hole" in God's Law.

Jesus certainly established it for all to see "But from the beginning it was not so".

We know Jesus didn't change the Law but fulfilled it.

We as a church and Association are very strict on double marriage, but I still want to give whatever liberty that Jesus gave. It is the hardest thing I have had to deal with for all these years and will continue until I die. It is not just members joining that are double married, but its your own family, it leaves no one untouched these days. Its the first question I want to ask, when I get to Heaven, if allowed............

Membership? Come all ye double-married and help us learn from your previous experiences in how to keep our marriages intact!

Preaching qualifications? This is the one and only that cannot be changed and corrected as long as the divorce happened and not the death of the sopouse. And of course if that death were to happen at the hands of the other?

*Salamander sticks his sticky tongue in the side of his cheek.*

 

[Salamander]

On second thought I think I would change the last sentence quoted above to read:

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I say this because Jesus' answer to the Pharisees makes it clear that God never prescribed divorce. He simply permitted it under OT law (Deut. 24:1-2).

You'd better go check your Hebrew for this: "may go" isn't permissiveness to marry another, but shows the possibility of her marrying another and thereby comitting adultery and the blame also rests on the hardhearted husband for putting her away in the first place for some minute reason.

He ultimately causeth her to commit adultery. He, and she, would be much better off reconciling.

"It's cheaper to keep her"

 

[superwoman8977]

I can't fault a woman whose husband decided to commit adultery, not once, but continuously, and then decided he wanted another women and not his wife, so he ditches his wife. But, even if there is a divorce, scripture does not allow her to replace him with another man until he dies.
Your reasoning is flawed. If your foundation were built on Christ you would not be looking to violate scripture with another man.

I am not looking to violate scripture by marrying another man I am looking to move on from the horror that has occupied my life for the last almost 2 years (when things really started to get bad) I guess I dont get this whole he is yours till he dies thing nor will I accept it. My husband hurt me I should be allowed to leave free and clear and I should be allowed to marry again just like the guy I am dating since his wife cheated on him and he like I fought a losing battle to reconcile his marriage should be allowed to marry again. If this was the way God wanted things then there would be a whole lot of lonely people wandering the Earth, God did not make us to be alone, as for my husband I signed the last paper today and will give them to him tonight to take to the judge and it is over and done with. I have closed that door. I am looking on to my future whatever doors may be open I am looking to meet someone new someone who wants to share their life with me but I have no desire to be with someone who cheated on me and especially with the trash he is now dating, right now its about me moving on and seeing what God has for me in the future and if this whole well you cant marry again thing was gospel well then my pastor would be in trouble since he has been divorced before and is now married to an awesome christian woman and they have an awesome child together. Has anyone heard in here that God can takes lemons and make lemonade and make it better than you ever imagined? Apparently not and like I have said before go home tonight kiss your spouse and thank God for your home, etc because you never know when it may all be taken from you. No one is safe. oh and by the way you can say divorce is not an option for me but guess what if the other one wants it there is nothing you can do to stop them. :wavey:

 

[Brother Bob]

Exactly my "thoughts" and if we included the entire context we would find this so-called "exception clause" stems from the hardheart of the husband towards the wife for her premarital activity.

So, if a man's wife commits fornication against him and God, then he has no right to feel "hard" against her. (real world time). It tears the very heart out of a man, and you call him "hard hearted"!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine the thought of seeing "your wife" with another man???? I know a preacher, whose wife run off with a younger man, and left him with 6 small children. He is ninety now and he raised all his children, remained single for the sake of the ministery and will die that way. I think God will be "real" pleased with that man.

Many try to use this passage for a man-made "loop-hole" in God's Law.

Jesus put that clause there and for a reason, which is plain to understand. I don't know how man could of put it there.

Jesus certainly established it for all to see "But from the beginning it was not so".

I agree with that. Quoted it earlier in thread.

We know Jesus didn't change the Law but fulfilled it.

Just exactly what Law are we talking about anyway??? There was the circumcism law, the sacrificial law, the moral law, the moses law of the washing of the pots and pans. What law, did He actual fulfill, and have you read the book of Luke to find out which one????

Membership? Come all ye double-married and help us learn from your previous experiences in how to keep our marriages intact!

If all they have to do is "repent", why all the discussion. Why not do what you want and then say, "I repent", and all is well according to your statement Sal. As a matter of fact, if ever caught by your spouse in a compromising position, hollow as loud as you can, "I repent", then she won't have a leg to stand on!! Neither will you..........

So, to make adultery legal, is to marry and say forgive me??? Then you can commit adultery all you want?? Maybe if John the Baptist would of told the King to repent and join the church and then he could have his brother Phillip's wife, he would not of lost his head, what you think???? If only you had of been there Sal, you might of saved ole John's life!!

Preaching qualifications? This is the one and only that cannot be changed and corrected as long as the divorce happened and not the death of the sopouse. And of course if that death were to happen at the hands of the other?

Then they would be a murderer.

*Salamander sticks his sticky tongue in the side of his cheek.*

Use mouth wash, it helps........

He ultimately causeth her to commit adultery. He, and she, would be much better off reconciling

If you made this statement to a great number of men whose wife's have run off with another man, you would have to run for your life. Their misery and broken heart, along with this statement, would just be "too much" to bear.

BBob,

 

[donnA]

I guess I dont get this whole he is yours till he dies thing nor will I accept it.

It's in the bible and it has been posted here by another poster. Your refusal is to accept scripture.

If this was the way God wanted things then there would be a whole lot of lonely people wandering the Earth, God did not make us to be alone,

This is why we have spouses. But scripture is scripture, it is the word of God, you cannot claim to beleive it but yet throw out the parts you do not like. If you chose divorce, then you according to scripture can nto remarry, God calls remarriage after divorce adultry. It does not matter that he did it first. You answer to God for you, not your husband.

Has anyone heard in here that God can takes lemons and make lemonade and make it better than you ever imagined?

scripture?

because you never know when it may all be taken from you. No one is safe. oh and by the way you can say divorce is not an option for me but guess what if the other one wants it there is nothing you can do to stop them

I'm positive I ahve a good husband, and I am positive this is not going to happen to me, I am positive of my hsubands love and devotion, I am positive about God.
I don't know about your state, but here, theres no divorce unless both parties sign the papers. No one can force a divorce.

So far what I've seen from you is an I don't care about scripture, I'm going to do what I want no matter what God has to say about it, attitude.
Here is the root of your problems.

 

[Amy.G]

Superwoman, my heart goes out to you. You are going through a rough storm right now, and it will take time to heal. You are going to go through many stages of grief and anger before the healing comes, but it will come.
I was coming home from the grocery store today and heard this song and I thought of you. I hope the words will bring you a little comfort today.

(All those who think CCM is evil, please turn your heads. )


PRAISE YOU IN THE STORM by Casting Crowns

I was sure by now
that You would have reached down
and wiped our tears away,
stepped in and saved the day.
But once again, I say "amen"
and it's still raining.

As Your thunder rolls,
I barely hear You whisper through the rain,
"I'm with you".
And as Your mercy falls,
I raise my hands and praise
the God who gives
and takes away.

I'll praise You in this storm,
and will lift my hands,
for You are who You are,
no matter where I am.
Every tear I've cried,
You hold in Your hand.
You never left my side,
and though my heart is torn,
I will praise You in this storm.

I remember when
I stumbled in the wind.
You heard my cry.
You raised me up again.
My strength is almost gone.
How can I carry on
if I can't find You?

I lift my eyes unto the hills.
Where does my help come from?
My help comes from the Lord,
the Maker of heaven and earth.



God Bless

 

[LadyEagle]

So far what I've seen from you is an I don't care about scripture, I'm going to do what I want no matter what God has to say about it, attitude.
Here is the root of your problems.

Oh, my. These holier than thou attitudes are really disturbing. NNE on this board has the right to bash a person over the head with the Bible, especially one who is suffering and whose heart is breaking.

I Cor 13:4 Charity (love) suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

I am thoroughly disgusted with the tones and attitudes of some people on these threads. Nobody here has a handle on life and knows what circumstances they may be called to go through before life is over. And as a grandmother, I've lived long enough to know that sometimes those who have the attitude that "nothing like that will ever happen to me" find out that it can and does and then when they thought they had all the answers, they find themselves wondering Why, Lord?

 

[LadyEagle]

BTW, Thanks, Amy, for posting something nice and sweet and encouraging for her. :flower:

 

[pinoybaptist]

Divorce is unscriptural, and remarriage is unscriptural. God said so in His word, the Creator said so in the flesh.
However, man doesn't care.
So, have fun.
Just remember by whose stripes you are healed when you all go ahead and do what you think is God's way, and above whose head the charges against you were nailed when you all go to church next time and sing your beautiful Christian hymns.
superwoman8977 just nailed one of the problems dead center. her pastor is divorced, therefore her pastor will tell her to go ahead. and they are the crux of this whole issue of doctrine on divorce and remarriage. they have watered down doctrine, and adjusted to the world.
I wish to remind these people that in the book of revelations, Jesus Christ never admonished the individual believer and the church. He pinpointed the "angel of the church", in other words, the pastor of the church, because ultimately whatever issues the church, or the individual member of the church, has is the responsibility of the pastor of that church.

 

[Salamander]

My husband hurt me I should be allowed to leave free and clear and I should be allowed to marry again just like the guy I am dating since his wife cheated on him and he like I fought a losing battle to reconcile his marriage should be allowed to marry again.

You'd be leaving a mess just for another mess and you're already messin around.

 

[Salamander]

Use mouth wash, it helps........

Even with rotting teeth?

If you made this statement to a great number of men whose wife's have run off with another man, you would have to run for your life. Their misery and broken heart, along with this statement, would just be "too much" to bear.

BBob,

Nope, I'd side with the guy and "let's go kill her!":laugh: and him!:laugh: Real quick-like.

No, all joking aside, I'd have to follow the Spirit and try my best to console the man and try my best to convince him that God has something far better for him, and it just might NOT be another wife. A good dog can replace any bad woman!

 

[donnA]

Oh, my. These holier than thou attitudes are really disturbing. NNE on this board has the right to bash a person over the head with the Bible, especially one who is suffering and whose heart is breaking.

I Cor 13:4 Charity (love) suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

I am thoroughly disgusted with the tones and attitudes of some people on these threads. Nobody here has a handle on life and knows what circumstances they may be called to go through before life is over. And as a grandmother, I've lived long enough to know that sometimes those who have the attitude that "nothing like that will ever happen to me" find out that it can and does and then when they thought they had all the answers, they find themselves wondering Why, Lord?

You mean your kind of attitude? The one you frequently bash people with?
She has said over and over she does not intend to follow scripture.

I know and trust my husband, I can be for sure. You on the other hand can know absolutely nothing about my husband.