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The Biblical Doctrine of Divorce

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pinoybaptist

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Bible-boy said:
By this logic neither is the man who has done murder, or the ex-homosexual, or the ex-drunk, or the ex-drug addict, or the once bad tempered brawler, or one-time wife beater, or the ex-gambler, or the one-time thief. What makes divorce the sole test for blamelessness to the exclusion of all the requirements of 1 Tim. 3:1-7?
The divorced person is not an ex. He is currently in the state or position which God does not approve of, and if he remarried, then he is in a state of adultery. The ex-gambler was a former gambler, no longer in the grip of that sin. The ex-wife beater no longer is in an active role of beating his wife. Those ex's have given up, turned away from their sinful lifestyles. The divorced is currently at the table of divorce and partaking of it.


Bible Boy said:
Depending on whether one's interpretation of "husband of one wife" means one wife in a lifetime or if it means no polygamy.
His first house has been burned to ground and no longer exists. Now let's look at his new house.

Except that we are of the belief that his new house is not according to Biblical specifications.

Bible Boy said:
But the recovering alcoholic, or recovering drug addict, or ex-brawler, or the one-time murderer, or the one-time wife beater, or the ex-homosexual, or the repentant thief or gambler can. Why is that?

Because they have built their new houses in accordance with Bible specifications.

Bible Boy said:
Likewise, neither are any of the other guys I've referenced above if we focus on their past sins and refuse to look at their recent/current lives.

If you will approve their current lives because you think it is right for your taste, then, go ahead. Like I said, have fun, you all. But there are those who walk among the Baptist churches who do not approve of divorced pastors. We happen to be among them.

Bible Boy said:
However, we as Baptists will ordain them without a second thought because they have repented and been forgiven. Where's the logic?

Because they have repented. The divorced have not. Like I said above, the divorced is in the current act of being in an unscriptural state.
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
The divorced is currently at the table of divorce and partaking of it.

Because they have repented. The divorced have not. Like I said above, the divorced is in the current act of being in an unscriptural state.

Well, la-de-da, how holier than thou! My Bible KJV doesn't say that at all.
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Salamander said:
I'm thoroughly disgusted with all this emotions mean more than anything on this board!

I'm thoroughly disgusted with the lack of compassion on this board towards those who have suffered the indignity of divorce. The people who say all divorced people are unrepentent must have never had a friend or close family member who went through a divorce where the other spouse was promiscuous. I find that truly amazing. But good for you - you are unscathed by these issues yet you are such "experts" on Scripture as you twist it around to fit your own legalistic agenda. Good for you.

Anyone can be a Pharisee and beat someone over the head with what they THINK Scripture means or their own interpretation of it.

Maybe we should go back to stoning, it wasn't such a bad idea, after all. If adulterers were still stoned to death, then this thread wouldn't ever have been posted, because everyone would be free to marry if their unfaithful spouse was dead. No divorce. Simple.

Some of the comments on this board are disgusting. I pray the brokenhearted divorced person seeking consolation and advice does not surf onto the BB and read some of these posts and then go blow their brains out.:tear:
 
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Amy.G

New Member
The divorced is currently at the table of divorce and partaking of it.

Because they have repented. The divorced have not. Like I said above, the divorced is in the current act of being in an unscriptural state.
How in the world do you repent of someone else's sin?

If a spouse walks out and divorces their wife or husband, who should be held accountable?


I have consulted a couple of commentaries on this subject and according to what I've read, a certificate of divorce was granted by Moses for the sake of the wife, so that she could be released from the husband and be permitted to remarry. Only men were allowed to divorce. This was not an option or possibility for the wife. By the time Jesus came, this law regarding divorce had been greatly perverted as had many other laws, and husbands were divorcing their wives for any and all reasons, whereas originally Moses granted permission for divorce only in the case of unfaithfullness of the wife. Jesus reminds them of that and so tells them again that divorce is only permissable because of se*ual sins on the part of the woman, but even this is not God's way, but was allowed because of the hardness of their hearts.
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Exactly, Amy. I am going to go get a shower and wash off the stains of legalism I've just read on this board.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
LadyEagle said:
Well, la-de-da, how holier than thou! My Bible KJV doesn't say that at all.
I trust your Bible says the same thing as mine:

Mark 10:11-12 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Jesus said that if you divorce and marry another you live in a state of adultery. Those are his words, not mine. Did you omit those words from your Bible?

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Likewise Paul said the same thing.
If you divorce your spouse and marry another you live in a constant state of adultery.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
DHK said:
I trust your Bible says the same thing as mine:

Mark 10:11-12 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Jesus said that if you divorce and marry another you live in a state of adultery. Those are his words, not mine. Did you omit those words from your Bible?

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Likewise Paul said the same thing.
If you divorce your spouse and marry another you live in a constant state of adultery.
It is so convenient to leave out Matt isn't it???

Do you accept the beatitudes in Matt:????

BBob,
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Brother Bob said:
It is so convenient to leave out Matt isn't it???

Do you accept the beatitudes in Matt:????

BBob,
One must take all the Scripture in its totality. Realize first that the gosples are historical records of the life of Christ. Secondly, realize that Matthew's audience is Jewish. The hisorical audience must be taken into consideration. Compare Scripture with Scripture. Take into consdieration the meaning of fornication with what Joseph was going to do with Mary in Matthew chapter one. He was going to divorce her on the grounds of fornication--sex before marriage. Again compare Scripture with Scripture.

Now go to the epistles. They are not historical accounts but doctrinal books. They are books of doctrine, where Paul instucts the beliers in doctrine. Teaching about the matter of divorce Paul clearly teaches in Romans chapter 7 that if a person divorces and remarries he or she is committing adultery. The case is open and shut. The teaching is clear.
 

Amy.G

New Member
DHK said:
I trust your Bible says the same thing as mine:

Mark 10:11-12 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Jesus said that if you divorce and marry another you live in a state of adultery. Those are his words, not mine. Did you omit those words from your Bible?

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Likewise Paul said the same thing.
If you divorce your spouse and marry another you live in a constant state of adultery.
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Why did Jesus say that divorcing "causes" the other spouse to commit adultery?
When a man and a woman marry, they become one flesh. If either one has relations with another person outside the marriage, they have defiled the marriage bed and in essence brought another into the marriage bed causing the innocent spouse to commit adultery because they are "one flesh".
 

Brother Bob

New Member
DHK said:
One must take all the Scripture in its totality. Realize first that the gosples are historical records of the life of Christ. Secondly, realize that Matthew's audience is Jewish. The hisorical audience must be taken into consideration. Compare Scripture with Scripture. Take into consdieration the meaning of fornication with what Joseph was going to do with Mary in Matthew chapter one. He was going to divorce her on the grounds of fornication--sex before marriage. Again compare Scripture with Scripture.

Now go to the epistles. They are not historical accounts but doctrinal books. They are books of doctrine, where Paul instucts the beliers in doctrine. Teaching about the matter of divorce Paul clearly teaches in Romans chapter 7 that if a person divorces and remarries he or she is committing adultery. The case is open and shut. The teaching is clear.
Does Paul "override" Jesus's teaching??

If you must take it all, then why leave out Matt:????

Who was Mark, Luke and John's audience????


The Gospel of Matthew​


Audience:​


The fact that Matthew does not explain many of the Jewish customs (like Mark or Luke do)

suggests that his audience was at least partly Jewish and that the entire audience was familiar
with many of the basic Jewish beliefs and practices (for example, compare Mark 14:12 and​
Matthew 26:17).

BBob,
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.



I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but this just doesn't seem complicated to me.

If the wife commits sexual immorality, the husband is permitted to divorce her. He is NOT permitted to divorce her because she has wrinkles, is a bad cook, or just isn't fun anymore. This is what was going on in the day the Jesus spoke to these legalistic Pharisees.

If he does divorce her because of anything other than sexual immorality on her part, he is causing her to commit adultery with another because the "two are one flesh", although she has actually committed no sin.

The point is, that this is serious business, and the sin of the husband affects his wife as well. The point is that he is forbidden by God to divorce her for any reason except sexual sin on her part. In that case, she has committed adultery and the sin falls on her shoulders, but if the man divorces his wife because he's tired of her and she has committed no sin, then he is held accountable for the sins of both.


Edited to add: All throughout the gospels, the Pharisees considered themselves to be sinless. They believed they followed the law to the letter and looked down upon sinners. This subject is just another case where Jesus makes His point that the Pharisees are sinners like everyone else. Something to think about while keeping things in context.
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Brother Bob said:
[/FONT]
The fact that Matthew does not explain many of the Jewish customs (like Mark or Luke do) suggests that his audience was at least partly Jewish and that the entire audience was familiar
with many of the basic Jewish beliefs and practices (for example, compare Mark 14:12 and​
Matthew 26:17).

BBob,
Excellent point! :thumbs:

Part of our problem in seeing this correctly is that we see it from a 21'st century Christian/American perspective and not how a Jew 2000 years ago understood it.
 

Amy.G

New Member
nunatak said:
:laugh: :laugh:
Hey!!!! Are you agreeing with that?

Why I oughta............
2.gif






:1_grouphug:
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Amy.G said:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Why did Jesus say that divorcing "causes" the other spouse to commit adultery?
When a man and a woman marry, they become one flesh. If either one has relations with another person outside the marriage, they have defiled the marriage bed and in essence brought another into the marriage bed causing the innocent spouse to commit adultery because they are "one flesh".
This is where you fail to harmonize the Scriptures and simply insert your own philosophy and thus end up contradicting the Scriptures. Now you say Paul contradicts Jesus. Why would Paul do that? Paul doesn't contradict Jesus and the Bible never contradicts itself. But you do.

Fornication means illicit sex before marriage as demonstrated by the situation that Joseph encountered with Mary. He found Mary with child before they were married, and was going to divorce her on the basis of fornication--sex before marriage. That is what Mat. 5:32.

The other gospels do not mention this clause becasue they were not written to a Jewish audience.
Paul gives the once and for all conclusion concerning the matter. His epistle is an epistle of doctrine. The conclusion is final. Paul knowing what Matthew already wrote, wrote Romans. Matthew was one of the earliest books written, about 50-55 A.D. Paul, no doubt had already read it. Romans was written much later, in the 60's, as much as ten years later. Paul already knew what Matthew had written. He would not contradict it, and the Bible does not contradict itself.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Brother Bob said:
Does Paul "override" Jesus's teaching??
Yes. It was written about 10 years later, and it was a doctrinal epistle. In the case of divorce Paul had the final word. Jesus "exception clause" is found only in Matthew written to Jews.
If you must take it all, then why leave out Matt:????
Because the Book of Matthew is written to Jews, and addresses Jewish customs. The Jewish definition of fornication is sex before marriage.
Who was Mark, Luke and John's audience????
Mark presents Christ as a servant, and is written primarily to Roman audience.
Luke presents Christ as the perfect man and is written primarily to a Greek audience.
John presents Christ as the Son of God, and is written to the world in general.
 

Joe

New Member
DHK said:
Yes. It was written about 10 years later, and it was a doctrinal epistle. In the case of divorce Paul had the final word. Jesus "exception clause" is found only in Matthew written to Jews.
Excellent point, thanks. I will study this
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
DHK said:
This is where you fail to harmonize the Scriptures and simply insert your own philosophy and thus end up contradicting the Scriptures.

Fornication means illicit sex before marriage as demonstrated by the situation that Joseph encountered with Mary. He found Mary with child before they were married, and was going to divorce her on the basis of fornication--sex before marriage. That is what Mat. 5:32.

The other gospels do not mention this clause becasue they were not written to a Jewish audience.


Well, DHK, this is where you fail to harmonize the Scriptures and simply insert your own philosophy and thus end up contradicting the Scriptures.

The word "fornication" is mentioned several times in the NT - here are some of them and your definition (per DHK "Fornication means illicit sex before marriage") does not fit in all of these other Scriptures. I say we stick with the Greek text which uses the word "pornea" (which includes all manner of sexual immorality), which will fit in all of these Scriptures:

Acts.15
[20] But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

[29] That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts.21
[25] As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Rom.1
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1Cor.5
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

1Cor.6
[13] Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Cor.7
[2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1Cor.10
[8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

2Cor.12
[21] And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Gal.5
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Eph.5
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Col.3
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

1Thes.4
[3] For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Jude.1
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Rev.2
[14] But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

[20] Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Rev.9
[21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev.14
[8] And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev.17
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rev.18
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

[9] And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Rev.19
[2] For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

So, Paul overrides Jesus? Well, that just blew the debate out of the water, even though Paul admitted that we see "through a glass darkly."

I can honestly say I have never heard anyone say Paul overrides what Jesus said. I've heard it all on here now.
 
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pinoybaptist

Active Member
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LadyEagle said:
Well, la-de-da, how holier than thou! My Bible KJV doesn't say that at all.

Lady Eagle, just for another clarification. The "divorced" I am talking about, and which I understand I was discussing with the brother, is someone who has divorced his spouse, for any reason. He, therefore, is a divorced person, and is disqualified from the ministry, because he is no longer blameless, that is, he is subject to criticism not only by those inside the church but also by those outside the church.
Now, the requirement to be above reproach, was not set by this dirty, rotten, sinner, but by the Holy Spirit (who is holier than you or myself) who caused Paul to write those words.

Now, if a person who was divorced by his spouse (that is, the initiator was the spouse), for any reason, and remains unmarried, and intends to remain unmarried, and signifies his intent to remain unmarried, may be allowed a ministry, but not that of an elder, or a pastor. Again, this dirty rotten sinner did not set that requirement to be above reproach, it was set by Someone infinitely and definitely holier than either of us can ever hope to be.

If the divorce happened before the person seeking the office of elder or pastor was converted and joined the church, that is entirely up to the church to decide.
 

Amy.G

New Member
LE is correct. The Greek "porneia" means sexual sins and includes all types of sexual sins. The NKJV translates it as "sexual immorality".

So to say that fornication means only sex before marriage is not correct. You don't have to be a Greek scholar to figure that one out.

King James Dictionary

FORNICA'TION, n. L. fornicatio.

1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.
2. Adultery. Matt. 5.
3. Incest. 1Cor. 5.
4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2Chron. 21. Rev. 19.


KJV Bible Commentary
Matthew 19:9
Writing of divorcement:
official written contract, permitting remarriage. The Jews tended to take this as excuse or license to get divorced whenever they pleased. The original provision was for the protection of the wife from an evil husband, not an authorization for him to divorce her at will. Therefore, Jesus gave one exception to the no-divorce intention of God, for fornication (Gr porneia) "sexual sins", includes all types of sexual sin: adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, etc. Among the Jews only the male could divorce, so Mark 10:12 reverses the statement for His gentile audience.

I think the sources I have cited are quite reputable and trustworthy.
 
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