The Blessed Virgin St. Mary the Mother of God.

[dad2]

Unbiblical heresy!

Explain rather than toss out wild firebrand accusations. Jesus was God in the flesh. Mary was His mom. That does not mean she was here before she was born and His mother in Abraham's day, etc before He came to earth. Of course she was the mother of Jesus, so unless you say He is not God, you have no point.

 

[atpollard]

Matthew 11:9-11

Matthew 11:9-11

Matthew 11:9-11

Matthew 11:9-11

Matthew 11:9-11

What are you trying to say?

"But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. For this is he of whom it is written: 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.' Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." [Matthew 11:9-11 NKJV]​

 

[utilyan]

Oh, and btw, Baptists aren't protestants.

Thats a new line to counter the "what are you protesting". They certainly protestant and at first.

Yup Ex-Anglican priest was first Baptist. And then he dumped it to be Mennonite.

The history is right there..... THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES.


All you gotta do is ask who was the first. Who was that first guy to say "I'm a Baptist Denomination" and its a ANGLICAN PRIEST.

Who baptized himself and then later realized how messed up it was. Why? Probably because the mistaken view there is no legitimate trace to a church Jesus started rather than jump starting his own.

Thats the trend you disagree with your own denomination's teaching......start a new one. Be your own highest authority.


Who learned their Christianity from who. Who did the first guy learn their Christianity from.

I learned it from dad, dad learned it from pastor bob, pastor Bob learned it from Bill, before starting his own denomination , Bill learned it from so on and so forth.......

Folks tried to sneak around. There is books like "trail of blood" by Baptist minister James Milton Carroll
That try to connect Baptist as the original Christians.

 

[atpollard]

up Ex-Anglican priest was first Baptist. And then he dumped it to be Mennonite.

Not germane to "the Blessed Virgin", but there are TWO branches of Baptists that have different origins. You have correctly traced the "name" but not the movement with its Credobaptism and Local Autonomy distinctives.

(ultimately it is more of a "sola scruptura" thing than a protest of corruption.)

 

[utilyan]

Not germane to "the Blessed Virgin", but there are TWO branches of Baptists that have different origins. You have correctly traced the "name" but not the movement with its Credobaptism and Local Autonomy distinctives.

(ultimately it is more of a "sola scruptura" thing than a protest of corruption.)

Well the first guy, regardless of branch, He needs an authority to hand him his first bible. He didn't go out manuscript hunting. Just even the fact of knowing there is a bible ......says who?

Imagine you are no denomination, practically Atheist. Gee who is this Jesus fellah? Where do I start? Someone has to report to you there is a PARTICULAR BOOK and you have to take their word for it.

 

[atpollard]

Well the first guy, regardless of branch, He needs an authority to hand him his first bible. He didn't go out manuscript hunting. Just even the fact of knowing there is a bible ......says who?

Imagine you are no denomination, practically Atheist. Gee who is this Jesus fellah? Where do I start? Someone has to report to you there is a PARTICULAR BOOK and you have to take their word for it.

The RCC of today is not identical in its practices and beliefs (dogma) to the Church in the Book of Acts or the Church of the 3rd Century or even the RCC Church of the 1700's. So the modern RCC church is not the Apostolic RCC church and all Christians [RCC, EO, Baptists, etc.] trace their "lineage" back to the words of Christ and the apostles (plus a few others like Luke and James).

If you really want to stir up trouble, "which PARTICULAR BOOK?" ... even Catholics disagree on that.

 

[atpollard]

Well the first guy, regardless of branch, He needs an authority to hand him his first bible.

PS. That would be GOD in the person of Jesus Christ acting through the Holy Spirit ... just like He has always done it (Acts 2 or Road to Damascus or Augustine or Jorge Mario Bergoglio.)

[John 6:44-45 NKJV] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

[John 10:25-30 NKJV] 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 "I and My Father are one."

[Act 16:14 NKJV] 14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

 

[Mikoo]

What are you trying to say?

"But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. For this is he of whom it is written: 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.' Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." [Matthew 11:9-11 NKJV]​

Sorry. I thought it would be obvious. The rc denomination worships Mary, sorry, 'venerates' Mary, but apparently John the Baptist only warrants a 'birth' day. Jesus seems to think very highly of John, just don't see the same enthusiasm from the rc's.
Jesus did say this about His mother, Matthew 12:46-50.

 

[atpollard]

Sorry. I thought it would be obvious. The rc denomination worships Mary, sorry, 'venerates' Mary, but apparently John the Baptist only warrants a 'birth' day. Jesus seems to think very highly of John, just don't see the same enthusiasm from the rc's.
Jesus did say this about His mother, Matthew 12:46-50.

Sorry, I was making a joke and it got lost in the translation to the printed word.
I understood your point and agree ... Mary was 'born of a woman' when Jesus spoke those words, so Jesus settled the matter.
Who is greatest? God.
Who is second? Those in the kingdom of God.

It is a pretty flat pyramid.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

…Also, it should go without saying, to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary makes no sense. … This woman is our Mother, commended to the Church by our Lord Himself. And to ignore her is something no Christian should ever do….

Mary served an important role, and is not ignored. But Scripture does not say she is the mother of us all.

However, there is an OT saint referred to as the father of all who believe.

16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. —Romans 4:16-17​

 

[Walter]

No one said that.

Your problem with claiming that Mary is the mother of God is that God is Triune.

Please answer me this: If Mary is the mother of God - the she, by simple semantics is the mother of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

THAT'S who God is. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If she is the mother of those three, then she existed before the God-head and is therefore in authority over the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

......And, if all this is true - then where and whom is their father?

Either Jesus was God or He was not. That is YOUR problem. Nobody said that Mary is

Jesus is not the triune Godhead all by himself and Mary is not the mother of God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Since God the Son existed before the incarnation (see Gospel of John chapter 1), there is a sense in which Mary is not even the “mother” (origin) of God the Son, but merely the Virgin chosen by God the Spirit to incarnate the Christ.

That makes her “blessed” (happy, fortunate, to be envied), but it does not elevate her to any god-like or demigod-like status worthy of worship as a fourth ‘person’ of the Trinity. It is important not to conflate the fact that people are people and God is God and the two are fundamentally different.

So did Mary exist before God? No. But she did give birth to God the Son, the second person of the Trinity who, being human as well as divine, entered into human history at a specific time, born to a specific woman. In a way, then, the title “Mother of God” is a succinct way of stating our belief that Jesus Christ was truly God. As the National Conference of Catholic Bishops say in their letter Behold Your Mother: Woman of Faith, “Mary can be rightly called ‘Mother of God,’ not indeed in the blasphemous sense of having existed before God, but as an affirmation of the truth of the Incarnation.”

 

[utilyan]

PS. That would be GOD in the person of Jesus Christ acting through the Holy Spirit ... just like He has always done it (Acts 2 or Road to Damascus or Augustine or Jorge Mario Bergoglio.)

[John 6:44-45 NKJV] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

[John 10:25-30 NKJV] 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 "I and My Father are one."

[Act 16:14 NKJV] 14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

Sure, If you had absolutely no knowledge of Jesus Christ, never even heard the name before and God popped up and said look here I wrote this book. That would make perfect sense.

That is not what happened though. Someone introduced it to you and told you there is bible.

The first Baptists came from the Church of England. They were just part of that church and did not share the belief of infant baptism so they broke off to start their own thing.

There were no Baptists in the year 1400s or before.


Name one Baptist who existed in the year 500. Can't because they don't exist. They are simply and offshoot of an offshoot.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Either Jesus was God or He was not. That is YOUR problem. Nobody said that Mary is

So did Mary exist before God? No. But she did give birth to God the Son, the second person of the Trinity who, being human as well as divine, entered into human history at a specific time, born to a specific woman. In a way, then, the title “Mother of God” is a succinct way of stating our belief that Jesus Christ was truly God. As the National Conference of Catholic Bishops say in their letter Behold Your Mother: Woman of Faith, “Mary can be rightly called ‘Mother of God,’ not indeed in the blasphemous sense of having existed before God, but as an affirmation of the truth of the Incarnation.”

In this case, referring to Mary as the mother of the Christ would be more than sufficient, because we know precisely who Christ is. Misusing the term God here requires all manner of backtracking and explanation. It simply doesn't fly—it has no apostolic precedent, and for good reason.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Either Jesus was God or He was not. That is YOUR problem. Nobody said that Mary is

I have no problem. I believe that Jesus Christ is God along with the Father and the Spirit. I've said that multiple times.

You said calling Mary the mother of God is a "succint" way of stating that Jesus was God. I just don't agree. Calling Mary that just to be pithy or concise while leaving out the definition of God which includes the Father and the Spirit is not concise - it's sloppy and confusing.

If you want to say he is God, then just say "We believe that Jesus Christ is God."

 

[canadyjd]

…..So did Mary exist before God? No. But she did give birth to God the Son, the second person of the Trinity who, being human as well as divine…...”

She gave birth to Jesus and then at least 6 more children. Jesus is fully God and fully human. No one denies that.

The man-made title “mother of God” causes unnecessary confusion, elevating Mary more than she warrants. You see that in the Catholic doctrines that some believe that she is a co-redemptor with Jesus. If I remember correctly, Pope John Paul, upon his death, left the church in the hands of Mary.

It also encourages the anti-biblical practice of praying to the saints, instead of the biblical model of direct prayers to our one and only mediator and High Priest, Jesus Christ.

peace to you

 

[utilyan]

In this case, referring to Mary as the mother of the Christ would be more than sufficient, because we know precisely who Christ is. Misusing the term God here requires all manner of backtracking and explanation. It simply doesn't fly—it has no apostolic precedent, and for good reason.

Luke 1

42And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43And how has it happened to me that the mother of my Lord would come to me?

Mother of my Lord. There is only one Lord folks. GOD ALMIGHTY.

Mary carried GOD in her womb.

Again drop the pseudoscience just because its a MOM that doesn't diminish God in anyway.

Did Mary carry GOD in her womb?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Luke 1
42And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43And how has it happened to me that the mother of my Lord would come to me?

Mother of my Lord. There is only one Lord folks. GOD ALMIGHTY.

Mary carried GOD in her womb.

Again drop the pseudoscience just because its a MOM that doesn't diminish God in anyway.

Did Mary carry GOD in her womb?

The issue is about the extrabiblical, non-apostolic title ascribed to Mary. Already addressed several times.

Bottom line, the Catholic overemphasis on Mary is absent from Scripture. It is late, non-apostolic innovation, especially with attributions such as Perpetual Virgin, Spiritual Mother of all peoples, Queen of Heaven, Co-redemptrix, Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, Mediatrix, Mother of God.

The NT authors didn’t go down that path and neither should we, and for good reason. It smacks of idolatry, of even slyly trying to ascribe practical Godhood to Mary, and misdirects the focus that belongs on the Father and the Son.

 

[utilyan]

The issue is about the extrabiblical, non-apostolic title ascribed to Mary. Already addressed several times.

Bottom line, the Catholic overemphasis on Mary is absent from Scripture. It is late, non-apostolic innovation, especially with attributions such as Perpetual Virgin, Spiritual Mother of all peoples, Queen of Heaven, Co-redemptrix, Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, Mediatrix, Mother of God.

The NT authors didn’t go down that path and neither should we, and for good reason. It smacks of idolatry, of even slyly trying to ascribe practical Godhood to Mary, and misdirects the focus that belongs on the Father and the Son.

Did Mary carry GOD in her womb?

 

[Two Wings]

the title “Mother of God” is a succinct way of stating our belief that Jesus Christ was truly God. As the National Conference of Catholic Bishops say in their letter Behold Your Mother: Woman of Faith, “Mary can be rightly called ‘Mother of God,’ not indeed in the blasphemous sense of having existed before God, but as an affirmation of the truth of the Incarnation.

lol … i think that is a lot of words.

Mary, mother of Jesus.

Jesus, God the Son.

THAT is succinct and doesn’t intend/mistake who Mary is.

there is no salvation in Mary. There is no sanctification in Mary.

 

[atpollard]

Did Mary carry GOD in her womb?

God the Father? No.